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    • I'm afraid that I think that as you've assembled the chair and you are unable to return it into its saleable condition, then you probably have a problem. I don't think you could take advantage of the distance selling rules in those circumstances and that means that the seller would be entitled to apply conditions to the return of the item. If that's the case then you only fall back is that the item was defective if you find that there is something wrong with it which is preventing its disassembly. On the other hand, this itself raises an interesting issue. Does a chair become of unsatisfactory quality because you can't take it apart and put it in a box? From the sounds of it, the sellers terms and conditions that there is a restocking fee for the return of an online sale even if it is within the 14 day period, seems to me to be quite unenforceable but on the basis of what you say, that issue doesn't arise here because you are unable to put the chair back into its saleable condition and it's not clear that the chair is defective - 
    • Hi everyone, I'm in need of some urgent advice please. Apologies for the long post - I felt it was better to provide all the information clearly at the outset.   I purchased an office stool (that cost £104.39) online, which was delivered on 18th May. After assembling the stool, I found it wasn't suitable for me, so contacted the seller on 27th May to initiate a return.    The seller told me that there would be a "£24.95 handling charge" for returning the item. He quoted the terms and conditions from their website to back this up (please see below), although this is confusing because 35% of £104.39 does not equal £24.95: "Please note that furniture items are subject to a 35% restocking fee. Furniture returns will only be accepted if the item is unused and still in the original packaging. All furniture returns must be made within 14 days of delivery."   I told the seller that, under the Consumer Contract Regulations, the trader cannot charge any fees in the event of cancellation. The response was: "If you not happy to pay for the collection charge for us to arrange this with a courier to uplift then you can send this back to our office directly arranging your own courier, please note we would not cover the cost if this is the case."    I agreed to this, because from my reading of the CCR I thought that the customer was responsible for return delivery:  (5) The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless— (a)the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or (b)the trader failed to provide the consumer with the information about the consumer bearing those costs, required by paragraph (m) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2. Also, from getting quotations online I thought I could arrange delivery, for what was at the time a smallish box, for a much cheaper price (£7-8).   However, when I tried to disassemble the stool for return, it would not come apart. I contacted the manufacturer for further guidance, but the only how-to video they had available was not applicable to the model, and the manufacturer representative was unable to provide further instructions.   I have now been sent a 'built box' to return the stool without the need to disassembly. The issue is that the size of the box means that shipping charges are now £30 minimum i.e. more than the 'handling charge' the seller quoted.    Am I obliged to pay this return fee, or should this actually be something the seller should pay for? 🤔 I feel like I may have two potential arguments against it: Return delivery would not be nearly so expensive if the stool had come apart as the manufacturer said it should.  The Consumer Contract Regs state that a consumer is not responsible for return shipping if the trader has not provided information about the right to cancel and about return shipping on a durable medium.    What even counts as a durable medium? The dispatch note that came with the stool had no such information, while the order confirmation email simply had a link to their terms and conditions (which includes the statement about the restocking fee quoted above).   Does this clause mean the seller is still obliged to pay return shipping? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I'm starting to stress a little about this because the 28-day cancellation-and-return period will be in two working days (although I realise that may be extended if it can be considered that the seller did not provide the required cancellation information).    Thank you in advance!  
    • so what you mean is that "each" parcel contained a single dinner plate. Thank you that clarifies things. As you been advised by my site team colleague, please make sure that you read around a substantial number of the Hermes stories on the sub- forum. You will get to understand the principles and also the similarities and approach from Hermes. Of course Hermes is being abusive of the system because they exploit a taxpayer funded under resourced justice system simply to put their customers into a kind of triage where only the most persistent finally get through to the end which is almost always – mediation – and then will manage to get their money or most of their money. Hermes are abusive of this system and of course they are actually going to spend more money than the value of your damaged items trying to smash you down. Because their attempts to crush you are effectively subsidised by the taxpayer, they don't really care. Make sure you understand what they will say about the prohibited items list because your plates are made of china or porcelain and will be prohibited items, according to Hermes. On the other hand, they were correctly declared and they were accepted for delivery. The values were correctly declared – and once again after you have completed your reading, you will understand the significance of this. Hermes will also try to say that you didn't have a contract with them and you should sue packlink – who conveniently – are based in Spain outside the jurisdiction. They were say that you are attacking the wrong people. Once again, when you have completed your reading you will understand the standard reply to this. Once again you will discover that this is Hermes being abusive of the system and misleading their customers as to what their rights are. Make a formal complaint to Hermes. Tell them that they are responsible. Don't give them a deadline, but wait a reasonable time – 10 to 14 days – after which you will send them a letter of claim if they haven't put their hands up by then or if you have had no response. By that time, you will have done enough reading to understand the way it goes but we will advise you and support you all the way.   Come back here when you have been knocked back by Hermes and we will take you through the next step  
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Claimform on service charges. *SUCCESS* - now at it again!!


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Hi Andy, just recieved the notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track, so I've got to complete Directions Questionaire and file it with the court office. I assume file it means just to return the Questionaire ?

 

Guess they think I have a case, guess what just recieved another service charge in the post with no Summary of Terms attached again!

Caren

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Yes..Directions is standard form to fill in, make sure you say you want it transfered to your nearest court, as a LiP you can have it at your nearest court and they have to travel (if they live somewhere else), where is their solicitor based ?

 

Youll prob get a Mediation offer too, always best to accept ghis, if it goes ahead its just a conference call with mediator guy to try and resolve issue.

 

Is the new Service Charge demand the same as the old one ?, or is it a new bill ?, always remember that failure to attach Summary doesnt mean it wont be payable but means you can withold untill its sent with summary attached.

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Hi Andy and Dx

 

The latest on the claim,

 

I just recieved a notice of discontinuance of the claim today.

I guess the freeholders backed down,

 

What happens now if they sent that to the court

does that mean I can't ask them for any costs for defending

because I still want do give something to consumer forum.

Is that it with all that stress they put on me, etc.

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Hey there you got

 

I said long ago we love nailing fleecers trying it on

 

now I hope you understand why we were so persistent in the first place.

 

don't think you can get wasted costs in small claims?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Great news. Made me feel all warm and tingly :).

 

Let me investigate and have a re-read of the CPR RE: Costs, this is where a Summary Judgement application would of been great, could of got it struck out and got extra costs, but there was always a risk with that method.

 

There is still the issue of the S20C though, not sure what happens to this now, perhaps you need to remind the court.

 

S20C's are important because in theory in some cases like this where the Freeholder has lost, he can try and still recoup the costs via the service charge IF the leases allows (don't think yours does).

 

Overall great news :)

 

See here > http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part38#38.2 for stuff on Discontinuing.

 

Normally you could claim costs incurred up to the point of Discontinuance BUT not when its allocated to small track, did you actually get a letter saying it had been allocated ? (I know you had letter proposing it), it might be worth asking for costs, it cant hurt to ask..Ill find proper form.

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I think you could argue that as it hadn't been allocated to small track yet and that 'normal' costs rules apply. here is form > http://wbus.westlaw.co.uk/forms/pdf/cpf09002.pdf

 

You could put down maybe 3-4 hours research and 1-2 hours filling in forms/correspondence at the Litigant in Person Rate of £18 per hour.

 

This post deals with this very scenario > http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?247247-Small-Claims-Track-Discontinuance-advice-needed

 

What does it say on the Discontinuance notice, could you post it up (removing details) ?

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  • 4 years later...

Hi

this might sound trite but I have been referred to a solicitor for a demand of my service charge for £171.00.  

The demand is on a 14 day old invoice send to me for service charges on 10th April, 2019"  

The freeholders are a  big financial property and lettings company and I am a leaseholder of 10 years.  

I am not behind on any debts.

 

they have demand via a solicitor and added £40.00 charge.

For payment I said I would pay at the end of the month.  

There was no Rights and Obligations sent with it therefore it could not be demanded.  

The solicitor, said I had to pay and I received her letter after I had paid.

 

to be honest, they have no reason to be chasing me,  

I have said to the solicitor that she is acting wrongly and this was intimidation and she should Be reported to the law society for acting on this matter in such circumstances.  She has responded with that she has requested a copy of my lease and will be writing to me shortly about my obligations under the lease.   

 

I havent done anything wrong.  

I am getting fed up with their bullying,  

 

 Is there anything I can do

i.e. Write to the financial ombudsman about their conduct towards me.

 It feels unfair that they are allowed to do this and not hale any recourse.

 

thank you for any responses 

 

 

 

 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to solicitor demand for my service charge debt of £171.00.

Hi Caren

 

How do you normally pay this service charge ? When do they normally invoice you ?

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Hi, Andy.  I normally pay via direct debit when I get paid at the end of a month.

 

its quarterly,  it's sent via email, so there is evidence of receipt for 10th April,

 

caren 

 

 

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And so your 4 days late and you have always paid this way and they have never instructed a Solicitor before ?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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Hi, Andy.  

 

I was 14 or so days after receipt of the invoice via email. Solicitors letter received on same day,  ,Should companies allow 30 days anyway?

received invoice for service charge 10th April

Paid 26th April

solicitors letter received 26th April after paid.

I'm told by solicitor I am now going to be issued with another letter and are going to review my lease and write to me according to solicitor

dont owe them any past debts

No Rights and Obligations thing sent with the invoice which I understand makes it illegal for them to demand the costs. Mentioned it to their solicitor in email.  No response back to me.

 

 

 

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Its due for payment on the date stated in your lease.....and whatever it states on the invoice by date..not sure were you get 30 days from ? If its the same date every quarter can you not set up a DD or SO so its paid within the stated timeframe ?

 

received invoice for service charge 10th April Paid 26th April  So thats 16 days after reciept

 

As for their £40 Solicitor charge ignore them...but in future get it paid on time dont give them opportunity.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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Thanks Andy

I got 30 days from gov website about timeframe to pay an invoice.

 

They asked me via email when I was going to pay I said end of the month.

 

That was accepted by the credit controller!

 

thanks for advice, but that said, most of us don't have funds in our accounts until pay day esp, when they send it mid month so it wasn't intentional.

 

as it's quarterly I never know when I'm going to receive it, they never give a next billing date.

 

thanks for your advice.  

 

Ps I think you've been on here for many years haven't you!   

 

 

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is this the same lot that tried it on before with you?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi.   Yes it's the same people!   I just think they still want their retribution from before,  I'm not even a serial debtor!  Just a occasional mishapper,

 

big 🤗🤗 to Andydd

 

Caren

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Claimform on service charges. *SUCCESS* - now at it again!!

ok ive merged the thread and updated the title

you'd think if they'd had their finger burned in court once , they'd take the hint this is not allowed.

 

p'haps andydd will comment..

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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8 hours ago, Caren said:

 

I got 30 days from gov website about timeframe to pay an invoice.

 

 

 

 

 

From this site?

 

https://www.gov.uk/invoicing-and-taking-payment-from-customers/payment-obligations

 

It is referring to business-to-business invoices, although the page isn't very clear about that, and is summarising the Late Payment of Commercial Debts (interest) Act 1998 and subsequent amendments. So it wouldn't apply in your case as you are not a business.

 

In any case, as the gov.uk page says, 30 days is only the default if the invoice doesn't state some other payment date.

Just now, Ethel Street said:

 

 

Edited by Ethel Street
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they have to follow a particular set of rules and part of those rules will be in your lease so waht does it say about payment of costs if you are late paying your ground rent or service charges

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  • 1 month later...

You mention they didnt include the service charges - rights form as per here > https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/summaries-rights-obligations-service-charges-england/ if so..then nothing is payable, also be aware if they try it on and ask for admin charges this requires a seperate and different form....assuming the lease allows such charges..most dont

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