Claimform on service charges. *SUCCESS* - now at it again!!

[Caren]

Hi

I would like some advice please.

 

I owed the freeholders of my lease some service charges that were a total of 436.62.

In mid Aug I telephoned them and they demanded I pay in full immediately.

 

I tried to discuss with them some payment plan but they would not accept anything just a demand to pay it all

or they will instruct their solicitors.

I paid 250.00 by direct debit at the end of Aug.

 

10 days later in early Sept I receive a letter demanding 436.62 be paid.

I called them and told them that their figures were wrong Both they and the freeholders had to check their accounts,

they demand I pay the remaining balance of 186.62 or they will ask for interest per day and take me to court.

 

I then receive a credit note in mid Sept for 124.00 balancing for the year.

this meant I owed 62.62 in sept

In addition around the early part of Sept they sent me another service invoice in advance for 105.00 for sept 29 to Dec 24th.

now I ow 167.62

 

I was unwell for the later part of Sept and early Oct. and under the doctor.

I didn't pay it with my Sept salary.

I am 1700 overdrawn and living in debt that leaves me with no income for food.

I am having bowls of cereal for meals.

This is just to give you a snap shot

 

Well I was paying the money at the end of this month Oct and paid it under duress today on my account again

when I don't get paid till Friday this week

 

The reason is this Saturday I get a money claims letter.

 

They are asking me to pay interest back to March and costs of the court application at 35.00

and for writing a solicitors letter at 50.00 all this on top of their costs.

 

I want to ask you this

 

A. I did not receive any demand letter from the freeholders,

only the solicitor in early Sept when their figures and understanding of what I paid was wrong.

The company have not liaised with me, only sending me a statement in mid Oct,

they have also allocated money I paid of 250.00 on what invoices they wanted

leaving the furthest one back as the ones that still need paying

for which I believe is so they can gain more interest,

but it stands to reason that the money was for the earliest invoices.

 

I don't believe they have given me any chance to negotiate,

they write from a solicitor after a payment was made and they are not willing to have any arrangement.

 

The recent invoice in advance and 62.00 was the only thing outstanding and that was only given in Sept.

Are there any way behaving correctly I feel like I am being intimidated,

 

I have had a good 6 years with this freeholder and have never missed payments until this year

I dont know what to do.

I was frightened into this payment but I knew I had to pay it this month anyway.

 

Will I have to pay the court,

letter they wrote me when I had paid most of the bills that was wrong and court costs.

I can't afford them .

 

I did try to speak to the accounts dept but the person was either not at her desk or I was working,

I can't use my phone at work unlike some because I am on a ward and breaks are not heard of where I am it's so busy.

Where I say 10 days later I recieve a letter, this was from the freeholders solicitors.

 

Just to clarify

now that I have paid the 167.62.

 

Do I contest the charges on the money claims form for the 50.00 they are asking for the solicitors letter that came after payment,

the first mention of it was on the money claim form,

the interest they are seeking and the court costs of 35.00.

I really don't have any money at all.

 

Phew sorry for lengthy text.

 

Thank you Caron

[honeybee13]

Hello Caron.

 

Could you read the forum stikky please and post up the details on this thread? It will help the guys to advise you.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-April-2014**(2-Viewing)-nbsp

 

HB

Edited October 27, 2014 by Andyorch
Link provided

[andydd]

Hiya.

 

Lets try and answer your questions.

 

A. Service charges are not payable unless you have been sent VALID deamnds.

 

They must comply with lease, i.e if it says 50% in Jan, then they can only ask for 50% then, (Try and read the lease and get a full understanding of how/when/how mcuh service charges are due. Some lease do ask for money in advance or money to a sinking fund, others do not.

 

The valid demand must have been sent to you and accompanied by Service Charges - Summary of Rights , this must be in an EXACT format, see here > http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=13 if you didnt receive it or it differs (even in font size!), then nothing is payable.

 

The fact they didnt write/discuss it with you is irrelevant, they can go from sending demand straight to issuing court claim assuming demand was valid and you didnt pay BUT courts do like people to follow the CPR Pre Action Protocols, such as sending letter before action and mediation/discussion.

 

So have you received an actual court claim ?. If so it is important to fill in the acknowledgement of service and then later a defence by the bdeadlins.

 

Can you scan the demands from Freeholder and Solicitor ? (Remove any personal info.). and post them up.

 

Have you also got your lease scanned ?

 

Andy

[Caren]

Hi Dear Sirs, and ladies

I don't know how to upload sorry although I have a copy of my lease electronically.

I will look at it though, I understand you point.

Sorry for late replies, I didn't recieve any emails that tells me I received any replies to my earlier thread.

 

This is the current situation

I was up to date in May 14 paying the freeholders by Bacs.

They send two invoices in June,

one for insurance,

the other for service charges.

I called the freeholders in mid Aug and asked for more time to pay

they demanded I pay it all

 

I was having financial difficulties and because I felt pressure from them I paid an amount of 250.00 by Bacs at the end of Aug

which left a balance of 167.00 owing.

 

A week later in early Sept they're solicitors wrote to me demanding I pay 417.00

or that they will take me to court and be charged their costs

I informed them I had made a payment with a promise to pay the balance at the end of Sept.

This was accepted.

 

In the same month Sept the freeholders send me a credit note for 124 for the year 2013 to 2014 a balancing credit for the year.

This meant I owed 167.00 less 124.00 owing 43.00.

In addition they send a new invoice in early Sept for period 29 Sept to Dec for 105.00.

 

I didn't pat the balance at the end of Sept

I was very ill for two weeks from the 24th Sept.

I have a sick note.

I decided to pay the balance at the end of Oct,

 

just before pay day on 28 Oct I received a money claim from the court lodged on 24 Oct which I didn't expect.

I paid the 168.00 for the balance owing and the Sept invoice by Bacs.

 

on 29 October the solicitors have written to me to say the company have received the payment

but are now seeking their legal costs of 85.00 from me or it goes to further county court for judgement.

I am seriously upset and stressed by them.

They say it's because I didn't contact the freeholders when I paid by Bacs in late Aug,

I guess it cost them to instruct their solicitors,

they gave me their details when I paid by Bacs in May.

 

In addition I see they are also seeking in their money claim the Sept invoice which was not in dispute by them

when they wrote to me with their letter demanding payment in early Sept as it wasn't even recieved by me

they've added this to the case.

 

They are also seeking interest going back to march when the earlier invoices have been paid.

I have seen the Sect. 11 summary of the tenants rights and obligations

They did Not attach it to any of the invoices in 2014'

ironically they did attach it to the credit note of 124.00"

now meaning these charges cannot be legally demanded right?.

Although It was never in dispute about paying the invoices

 

can they recover their 85.00 court costs .

They could turn around and say they did send the summaries but definitely they didn't.

Nothing stapled to their invoices as they usually do.

 

i have been extemely upset and already grossly overdrawn that The pressure they have put on me i feel angry,

and even after I've paid asking to pay their court costs of 85.00 instructing their solicitors to seek this..

 

The stress and harassment I have felt has been difficult.

I've lost sleep over it all over the past few months and I feel I need to report them and their solicitors to a regulator or someone.

Thank you in advance for any advice offered.

 

I paid the service charge, but threatened with costs of 85.00 plus interest for the leasehold company instigating solicitors and court proceedings, reason they give is I didn't tell them I paid in August by Bacs a week before the instructed solicitors

 

they want to charge me for their letter and court costs for not paying in advance Sept invoice at the end of Sept.

they didn't enclose any Sect 11 summaries with any of their invoices

they could not be demanded but still they are bent on getting these paid

writing to me via solicitors after paid Sept service charge last week,

saying as much in the letter.

 

I just want to ask who I report both the solicitors acting for the firm for lying

and also the leasehold company for harassment

because if you saw the letters they have been writing and the company not accepting a payment plan is my main problem now.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Caren
Mistake

[dx100uk]

if its in their PoC then yes they can.

that's why we needed to see it.

you are dealing with the claim

and have defended all

then you'll get a chance I'm sure to sort it out.

once the judge see whats gone on in the case

 

dx

[Caren]

My question is this :

I've mucked up the response to the claim form for N9B,

can i get another one to complete.

I dont want to fill in my income details.

 

I dont want the Leaseholders looking at it because they will gloat,

they are already playing with me deliberately.

 

Who can I write to, to make a formal complaint for harrassment and intimidation against the Leaseholders ie when Section 11 Summary of tenants rights and obligations were NOT attached and I paid their invoice and still find myself defending against a potential CCJ for their solicitors and court costs.

Can they still bring a CCJ against me.

 

The particulars of claim say

 

The claimants claim is for rent arrears invoices by the Claimant to the defendant, full particulars of which have been delivered to the defendant, before the action commenced.

 

Statutory interest is also claimed at a rate of 0.00% (seriously this is what it says 0.00%)

pursuant to s.69 of the County courts Act 1874, a total to date of £8.25

continuing at the daily rate of 0.0.6 from 3rd March 2014 until judgment or earlier payment.

 

So are you saying a judge will read my response?

 

I understand the leaseholder's can be fined for not having the Summary of tenants rights and obligations up to 500.00.

I want them to be fined.

I want them to sit up and be worried and stressed like they've done to me but don't know who to write to.

[AndyOrch]

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n009b-eng.pdf

 

Far better to register to use MCOL and then you can enter your defence on line and have more control instead of posting forms.

 

Andy

[Caren]

Thanks for the link

 

Please close this matter thanks.

Caren

[AndyOrch]

We dont close matters..thread remains open for others to add/ benefit from your experience.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Caren]

Well if they learn anything, good luck.

I didnt, most of what i learned was from researching myself.

Didnt get any emails telling me I received any response so I found out myself about Section11.

 

I am doing a part acceptance for the invoice outstanding of 62.00 and 105.00 for Sept.

The leaseholders have definitely not followed protocols ie SEction 11 omitted, but with 6 days left to submit out of 14 days when I'm working nights I can't afford to dilly dally.,

[dx100uk]

We really don't mind you messed up simply tell us

everyone here is on CAG to help.

 

what is the date on the top righthand side of the claimform please?

lets get you sorted step by step.

we love nailing fleecers.

dx

[Caren]

Thank you for your understanding.

The date is 23/10/14. on the claim form.

[dx100uk]

ok great you have weeks yet. Monday 24th by 4pm to file defence [edit]

 

you indicated you have done AOS?

 

what did you put defend all or part?

 

did you do this online at the MCOL site

or by returning the form?

 

I'm a night bird, have you got to get up tomorrow?

 

if so leave things for now and get some sleep.

 

 

you have time to sort this

 

 

dx

[Caren]

I have sent AoS today.

I'm at work through the night till 8am, quiet at times.

Couldn't get onto MCOL asked for claim ref and password that I have to wait to recieve upto 7 Days.

 

My defence is

their Particulars of Claim asks for 0.00% interest and therefore they cannot ask me to pay interest for 8.25 (their typo error I think)

The invoices for all of 2014 had no Summary of tenant and rights obligations attached and cannot be demanded

The letter of their intended action does not relate to Sept invoice for 105.00 should not have been part of their claim

I have tried to engage with them asking for a payment plan in Aug, they refused.

I have paid the invoices up to date but am not willing to pay their court fees of 85.00

I tried to discuss this with them but they have written to me on 29 Oct saying that as I did not respond to their letter of intent on Sept 3rd they want the fees paid.

 

I did actually respond on the phone, they are not telling the truth.

[dx100uk]

claim ref and password are on the N1 form you have already? sent off

did you copy it first?

its looking like you have a good case here.

 

dx

[Caren]

Dx,

Yes I have a copy

Claim ref yes put that in, but password didn't have one on N1 tried the CCMM .... But didn't work. There is a bar code with some tiny numbers under it... Would that be the password, just noticed it now as I speak!

I can do it again on line do you think.

 

A letter I recieved on the 29th Oct from the solicitors after I paid the invoices says

We note that you have made payment of the original invoice debt as detailed in the claim form to our client in the sum of 168.62 on 26 Oct 2014. However, as no response was recieved to our letter before action dated 3rd September 2014'

a claim form was issued against you on 23 October. Accordingly, you are now liable for the court fee, costs and interest incurred by our client in the sum of 85.00. If we do not hear from you by the 6th November 2014, we will continue the claim against you without further notice.

 

If I am defending this do I ignore this letter.

 

This letter adds insult to injury really

[dx100uk]

Theres a box on the righthand side of the front cover of the n1 claimform?

headed - important note

at the end of that should be a password?

 

you need to create a registration on the mcol site

note the long number that's given

then log in using the registration you have just created

 

then using that and the details requested from the claimform

select AOS

defend all

juris leave unticked

exit mcol.

 

where we go with this will depend upon others I feel.

I'm wondering if you need say under cpr 31:14 to request the docs they will rely on in the claim.

hopefully other will help now

we have things settled.

 

I don't think they can rely upon the fact that they have [supposedly] already served you the docs

"full particulars of which have been delivered to the defendant, before the action commenced. "

 

me thinks this is a speculative claim

hoping for a default judgement that you fail to contest....

 

can I take it to date you have NOT filed your defence?

I'm as clueless as you on legal matters.

I'm off now, hopefully everything Is falling into place now.

 

dx

 

Caren said:

A letter I recieved on the 29th Oct from the solicitors after I paid the invoices says

 

We note that you have made payment of the original invoice debt as detailed in the claim form to our client in the sum of 168.62 on 26 Oct 2014.

 

 

However, as no response was recieved to our letter before action dated 3rd September 2014'

a claim form was issued against you on 23 October.

 

Accordingly, you are now liable for the court fee, costs and interest incurred by our client in the sum of 85.00.

 

 

If we do not hear from you by the 6th November 2014, we will continue the claim against you without further notice.

 

If I am defending this do I ignore this letter.

 

 

This letter adds insult to injury really

 

cross posted

this sounds very dodgy to me

g'night

dx

[Caren]

I'm going to have to leave too getting busy. .thank you all for your help tonight. Will try and go back onto the site to lodge the defence tomorrow. Goodnight. Enjoy your rest DX.

[citizenB]

If you are having problems with MCOL, you can telephone them and then send via email.

[Caren]

Dear Dx, Stu and others

I managed to upload my lease and some recent letters from the leaseholders solicitors saying I have to pay their legal costs.

These need to be uploaded in Adobe.

 

I received a letter today from the solicitors in a threatening tone.

I have uploaded a copy of my lease.

Can you tell me if the leaseholder has rights to charging me admin costs for their legal fees.

I am not sure the lease has any relation to this.

 

If I havent made myself understood.

Please let me know.

Thank you

Caren

[ploddertom]

I've unapproved your attachment as it shows names & addresses at the beginning & further info in the plans at the end. Probably be better to do it again leaving these pages out.

[andydd]

it would really help if the OP could post up paperwork received from the freeholder,

demands for payment/court claim, etc..(with details removed),

I should then be able to work out if the demands are payable (there are a lot of legal hoops for the Freeholder to comply with).

Ill have a look at the lease and give my impressions of it.

 

So.

For Service Charges to be payable they must be demanded in accordance with the lease,

having read the lease it appears to allow interim or advance payments which is pretty normal.

 

Service Charges must also be accompanied by The Service Charges

- Summary of Rights exactly as here > http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=13

 

If the Service Charges are not paid or paid late then for extra admin charges to be payable, the lease must allow it,

Page 13 - 5 (vi) would appear for such costs to be recovered..(So be careful !),

 

BUt also admin charges are not payable unless the freeholder sends an Administration Charges

- Summary of Rights (MANY Freeholders overlook this !).

> See here > http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=89

 

As for the actual calculation of the service charge and whether its correct, we havnt seen enough info. to work this out,

its worth using though your rights under S21 of Landlord & Tenant Axct 1985

to demand a summary/breakdown and you can also use S22 to visit the Freeholder and inspect his paperwork

> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70

[Caren]

Andy, thank you so much for looking at the lease.

I promise I will scan the letters tonight and have them uploaded this early evening.

I didnt have the Summary of Rights for all the invoices they have issue with,.

Not stapled to the invoice as they've done in the past.

 

This is how I am going to play it on the Defense in their money claim issue.

However although it was only -62.00 owing in September, and then September invoice came for 105.00 then they are rather quick to jump the gun particularly as I was off work for 2 weeks from 24th Sept hence I didn't pay.

 

I have a letter from my employer stating that I was sick with sick note.

However since they've been paid in Oct salary they are still fighting for their Admin charges of 85.00 and seemingly to heck with the cost, it must be generating them to produce letters by their solicitors if it is 50.00 each since I paid.

 

Following on from a letter i received on 31 Oct, from the solicitors, The solicitors assumed I was not going to defend my case so were pushing for me to pay their admin fee , I said to them that they were mistaken that I was proceeding with my defence and received this letter yesterday

'

Letter dated 3/11/14

You indicated that you intend to file a defense in this matter in respect of the balance outstanding of £85.00.

This balance relates to a £35.00 court fee and £50.00 fixed costs,

the debt and interest have been discharged by you.

 

Please note that if a Defence is filed we will submit an application to the court to strike out the defense

as the £85.00 is payable under Statute.

We reserve the right to produce a copy of this letter to the Court in any subsequent proceedings.'

 

They are bent on trying to pass the costs onto me.

Why because I paid them an amount at end of Aug for late payments by bacs.

They didnt look at their account and instructed their solictors to write to me in early Sept.

 

Snow they want to charge me for their letter costing 50.00 plus court costs.

The are very aggrieved and I think its just because they want to win.

Any idea as to what they are doing..

 

Andy are you saying then..

The Leaseholder's should set it out in the form of an invoice their costs for Administration

and enclose the Summary with it as they would normally do with the service charge?

 

The first 2 letters relate to their initial request.

Note it does not have Sept invoice.

 

2nd letter refers to Sept invoice.

 

The question is which is the Notice before Action?

 

2 Summaries of payments.

 

1. I received on 15 Oct with no correspondence Leaseholders, the other I requested from a surveyor who works in a different dept to the accounts.

 

After payment:

2 more letters and contradiction email saying i did speak to the Leaseholders.

 

This is getting messy.

 

Hope that you can provide information regarding this.

[dx100uk]

you've 2 jpg's there that need to be pdf's sorry we cant read postage stamps

 

dx

[Caren]

Thank you Dx, hope your well,

umm can't they be read if they're a JPEG?

What's the difference?

 

I still need to upload the Particulars of Clsim and then Ive uploaded it all and will do that tomorrow.

 

Im surprisingly calmer now with all your help and I'm holding my own with these solicitors.

I couldn't send the defence by using the money claims site

I called them and they said I had a paper copy that had to be returned that way.

Bit odd me thinks.