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Hi all, only just signed up to this website so very new so please bare with me. my sister was parked on a private college car park (ST HELENS COLLEGE BROOK STREET CAMP) which requires a permit to park. my sister was only gone for about 20mins and came back to a parking officer and was given a "PARKING CHARGE NOTICE" from "PCN (NW) LIMITED". Not sure if this would change anything but the man who give her the ticket was in plan clothes. The reason for issue was "NO VALID PERMIT ON DISPLAY" it states the fine is £100 but will be reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days.

 

 

My question is, can she do anything? I've said that she should appeal anyway but what would be the best way?

 

 

Thanks

Andrew

We live in a world where seeing is not believing, where only a few know what really happened.

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as its a private car park and a private firm that has issued it, the ticket is merely an invoice, the thing to do is wait until she receives a notice to keeper, normally around 28 days after the screen ticket, the appeal to the company as the vehicle owner and not the driver asking for a POPLA code should the appeal not be allowed.

appeal to popla on the grounds that the ticket is not a genuine pre estimate of loss, all being well and good that should be it....have a route round the forum and search for the firm and see what others have done....i am sure others will be along shortly to advise further

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Thank you "letsgetitsorted" for the quick response, so should I not respond at all even to appeal it until she receives notice to keeper? She is the owner of the car but she didn't give her address can they just contact the DVLA for it?

 

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Andrew

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hi Andrew, some companies have access to the dvla and other do not, not sure on this one, i had a private parking charge from UKPC and aited until i got the notice to owner before i appealed, did an appeal that got rejected then went to popla to appeal, appeal upheld ticket cancelled.....

yes wait until notice comes through and then get her to appeal in the third person I.E "the driver said the driver did" and "not i did or i said"

whilst she is waiting for the notice to come through get he to research the company and the way they go about there appeals....give you an idea on where to start as each company is different in the way the handle the appeals/tickets

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Ftgab19,

 

Hi and "Welcome to CAG".

 

Wait for the NTK (Notice To Keeper). Must arrive between 29 and 56 days of the "offence".

IPC can and have been beaten at "appeal".

 

The normal "winning" points are GPEOL, a valid contract between the Land owner and the PPC, correct signage.

Good Luck :wink:

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The IPC are a tougher nit to crack than POPLA because they dont want to accept appeals based on the law as it stands but this does not mean that the company has any more rights because of it.

As said, wait for the NTK nad if you get one tell us exactly when the date of issue was and the date you received it. Many of these companies havetrouble using a calendar and get timed out to make a claim under the PoFA.

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Ftgab19,

 

Hi and "Welcome to CAG".

 

Wait for the NTK (Notice To Keeper). Must arrive between 29 and 56 days of the "offence".

IPC can and have been beaten at "appeal".

 

The normal "winning" points are GPEOL, a valid contract between the Land owner and the PPC, correct signage.

Good Luck :wink:

 

Thank you "f16" for clearing that up, nice name too :) so your saying that my sisters best chance lies with if the private parking company can prove a substantial loss was made in the time my sister was there for the car park? Also she was issued with the NTD on the 22/10/2014 so if nothing comes in the post after 56days, should we forget about it or still keep an eye out for something to be posted?

 

Thanks

Andrew

Edited by Ftgab19

We live in a world where seeing is not believing, where only a few know what really happened.

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No it must be issued between 28 and 56 days after the event, if it is sooner then it is not within the specified time and isnt valid. So if it arrives sooner than the 20th nov it isnt valid.

 

Thank you "ericsbrother" so what steps should I take if it arrives before the 20th and isn't valid, also what do I do if it arrives after the 20th?

 

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Andrew

We live in a world where seeing is not believing, where only a few know what really happened.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all again,

 

My sister today had a letter from PCN (NW) LIMITED saying Packing Charge Notice - Notice To Registered Keeper. I'll upload a copy of the letter but its saying since we have yet to receive payment, your data has been released by the driver and vehicle licensing agency. And it also says how to appeal and how to pay.

 

Now the letter is dated 28/11/2014 and they say in the letter that this notice will be deemed to have been served on the second working day of posting unless the contrary is proved. But my sister only got the letter today 04/12/2014

 

So don't no if they have purposely dated it wrong or what. would love some advice on what to do next.

 

Thanks

Andrew

We live in a world where seeing is not believing, where only a few know what really happened.

NatWest Problem *****Refunded*****

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even the 28th is too late. Write back and tell them that there demand is not compliant with the PoFA and therefore there is no keeper liability and any further demands will be treated as harassment and that the DVLA data was obtained fraudulently as there was no lawful reason as no keeper liabiliy at the time.

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ah, I have done my sums wrong, they have sent it in the prescribed time if the 22 oct was the date of the breach. Appeal to the company saying anything you want really, a good start would be inadequate signage to form a contract. They then have to reply and either accept that appeal or reject it and issue the information that allows an appeal to be made to the "independent" adjudicator. The IPC have the IAS as their adjudicators who are actually the same company of solicitors who run the IPC so we will never know if there is a true independence as they never publish the name of the decision maker.

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Hi ericsbrother,

 

Thank you for your reply, very good news to hear :) so how would I go about the letter?

 

I was thinking maybe something like this?

 

Correspondence

PCN Parking Solutions

PO Box 465

KT14 9BS

 

 

 

 

Date:05/12/2014

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

In reference to your ‘Notice to Registered Keeper’ letter dated 28/11/2014. I believe your demand to pay is not compliant with the PoFA and therefore the ‘keeper’ has no liability to pay.

 

Any further demands of payment of any kind will be treated as harassment and will be referred to the Financial Ombudsman Services. I also believe that the DVLA data that was obtained, was obtained fraudulently as there was no lawful reason because as stated above, the ‘keeper’ had no liability at the time.

 

 

I look forward to receiving a full response to this letter within 14 days

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

(My Sisters Name)

 

Many Thanks

 

Andrew

 

 

 

even the 28th is too late. Write back and tell them that there demand is not compliant with the PoFA and therefore there is no keeper liability and any further demands will be treated as harassment and that the DVLA data was obtained fraudulently as there was no lawful reason as no keeper liabiliy at the time.

We live in a world where seeing is not believing, where only a few know what really happened.

NatWest Problem *****Refunded*****

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Looks like I spend to much time on making my post, just read your second post now. So how would I go about the Appeal letter?

 

Never done one so please don't leave out the basics

 

Thanks

Andrew

We live in a world where seeing is not believing, where only a few know what really happened.

NatWest Problem *****Refunded*****

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It really isnt important what you say as they are not going to take much notice but I would simply state that on entering the land any signage was not legible from the drivers position in the car so no contract can have been formed. they will most likely reject this and claim that they have signs all over the place but that isnt the same thing.

After you have sent off the appeal get some photos of the signage and tell us exactly how big it is, there it is positioned relative to the public highway and whether any signs elsewhere have diffwerent or additional terms including "PCn Parking solutions take no responsibility for theft or damage to vehicle parked on these premises" or the like.

Reason for this is reference to terms not on first sign or additional terms mean that the signage is an invitation to treat and not a contract. Big difference in law.

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Hi again ericsbrother,

 

 

I have typed up a letter I'll post it below, I've tried to talk in the 3rd person and also stated what you said to. Is there anything I should change before I print it?

 

Correspondence

PCN Parking Solutions

PO Box 465

KT14 9BS

 

 

 

Date:05/12/2014

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

In reference to your ‘Notice to Registered Keeper’ letter dated 28/11/2014. I believe when said “Driver” entered the land, there was no legible signage from said “Driver” point of view from the driving position in the vehicle.

 

 

Therefore no contract could have been formed between said “Driver” and the land. So in light of the fact no contact could have been formed I am appeling your ‘Notice to Registered Keeper’ letter.

I look forward to receiving a full response to this letter within 7 days

 

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

(My Sister's Name)

 

 

It really isnt important what you say as they are not going to take much notice but I would simply state that on entering the land any signage was not legible from the drivers position in the car so no contract can have been formed. they will most likely reject this and claim that they have signs all over the place but that isnt the same thing.

After you have sent off the appeal get some photos of the signage and tell us exactly how big it is, there it is positioned relative to the public highway and whether any signs elsewhere have diffwerent or additional terms including "PCn Parking solutions take no responsibility for theft or damage to vehicle parked on these premises" or the like.

Reason for this is reference to terms not on first sign or additional terms mean that the signage is an invitation to treat and not a contract. Big difference in law.

We live in a world where seeing is not believing, where only a few know what really happened.

NatWest Problem *****Refunded*****

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thye have 35 days to consider your appeal.

I would recommend you write the sentence suggested as your version leaves room for further responses that may not be considered as a rejection of appeal. That will allow the parking co to waste more time and avoid the all important appeal access.

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Hi ericsbrother,

 

 

Are ok then I understand, I'll print this off then.

 

Date:05/12/2014

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

In reference to your ‘Notice to Registered Keeper’ letter dated 28/11/2014. I believe on entering the land any signage was not legible from the drivers position in the car so no contract can have been formed.

 

So in light of the fact no contact could have been formed I am appeling your ‘Notice to Registered Keeper’ letter.

 

I look forward to receiving a full response to this letter within 7 days

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

(sisters name)

 

Is that ok?

Thanks

Andrew

 

We live in a world where seeing is not believing, where only a few know what really happened.

NatWest Problem *****Refunded*****

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Just thinking before I send my letter. Should I ask for evidence of when the letter was sent? Because it's dated the 28th of November but My sister only got it on the 4th of December. I think they have changed the date because they sent it to late.

 

Thanks

Andrew

We live in a world where seeing is not believing, where only a few know what really happened.

NatWest Problem *****Refunded*****

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