Travis Perkins builders merchant claimform - without prejudice save for costs

[nice guy]

I have just lost a county court hearing against Travis Perkins builders merchant. The judgement amount is £2100.

 

10 days before the hearing TP wrote to me offering to settle at £1500 if I paid within 14 days. The letter is marked "without prejudice save as to costs".

 

Their letter (sent to the wrong address) arrived just before the hearing. I did not take it with me to the hearing to hand to the judge (never thought I would lose!).

 

I have now paid them 1500 the day after the hearing ie day 11 of the 14 days.

"the said sum to be paid within 14 days from the date of this letter" is the only stated condition.

 

I wonder about applying for a variation on their judgement when the court order comes through.

 

Anyone got any wisdom on this?

[nice guy]

As I understand it "without prejudice save as to costs" means that it cannot be used in the court hearing to establish liability but can when the liability is established an costs are being calculated.

[Vauban]

As I understand it "without prejudice save as to costs" means that it cannot be used in the court hearing to establish liability but can when the liability is established an costs are being calculated.

 

Yes. That's my understanding too.

 

But be clear that you now owe £2100, not £1500: an offer to settle out of court is just that. You can't ignore it, proceed to a judgement, lose, and then take them up on their out of court offer.

[Bandit127]

If you do not send them sufficient to cover the judgement by day 14 you will have a CCJ registered against you.

 

If you are not precious about a CCJ then you can apply for a variation. But you will not be able to use their offer of £1500 in evidence. "Without prejudice" precludes it being offered in evidence.

 

If you had taken the letter to the original hearing, the judge would have had to ignore it. That is the point of "Without prejudice". It is for making "out of court" communication.

[nice guy]

Thanks Vauban. The offfer letter says nothing about settling out of court or before the hearing. I think that was their intention but that is not the way they have drafted it.

 

The last paragraph says "In the event you are not willing to accept the offer put forward to you and wish to proceed to trial, we reserve the right to present this letter before the Court on the question of costs and would be seeking a wasted costs order particularly if an adjournment is necessary."

 

Can I not now put it before a judge to the costs down?

[nice guy]

Thank you Bandit 127. I am very precious about getting a ccj. Would they be able to register the judgement whilst I pursue the application for variation?

 

I think the additon of "save for costs" added on to "without prejudice" means I can put it before a judge when liability has been established and costs are being decided.

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to the correct forum.

 

Andy

[Vauban]

If it's a WP letter, then by definition that's what it is - an attempt to reach a settlement out of court.

 

The point about savings to costs will presumably be so that they can show the judge they tried to compromise with you, and you we're unreasonably resolute.

 

So this letter could make your costs situation worse not better (if the Judge concluded you were unreasonable in rebuffing this effort to settle).

 

On the other hand, you would stress the offer wasn't received until the eve of the hearing as it was mis-addressed.

And, if you were on the small claims track, both sides are generally responsible for their own costs.

 

If you were the Defendant, you'll have to pay the claimant's court fees - does the £2100 include those or other costs?

[Ganymede]

What costs? This is a small claim.

 

You owe what the Court ordered you to pay, not the £1500.00 in the without prejudice offer so you need to pay the full amount to avoid a CCJ.

[AndyOrch]

So you still owe them £600 and any fixed fees if not included.

[nice guy]

Yes I was the Defendent.

Yes £2100 included their costs, and court fee and interest.

 

I am sure they were trying to reach an out of court settlement but they have not drafted the letter well. They do not say the offer expired at the court door, only that I had 14 days which I have fulfilled.

[nice guy]

I just wondered whether I could use this letter against them.

 

I can pay and it is importantant to me to avoid any judgement on my flawless credit file.

[AndyOrch]

So just pay the £600 within the time specified......no CCJ.

[nice guy]

I have paid the Judgement amount in full of a court order within 7 days of the hearing.

 

Is there anything else I need to do to avoid getting a ccj on my credit file? Do I have to apply for a certificate of satisfaction? Do I have to chase the creditor to tell the court?

[AndyOrch]

You don't do anything once paid in time...the claimant will do the nessessary.

 

Andy

[Ganymede]

You need to apply for a Certificate of Cancellation and pay the fee which I believe is still £15.00.

 

Check with the Court beforehand.

[AndyOrch]

The CCJ will not be registered if paid by the stipulated date...there is nothing to cancel or satisfy.

[panther12]

As above but keep an eye on things just in case claimant hasn't bothered to notify that you've paid. Ask them for confirmation/receipt.

 

From TrustOnline:

Removing judgments: paying within a month

If you pay your county court judgment in full within one month of the judgment date, it will be removed from the register.

 

You may have to tell the court this yourself – the person you owed money to may not have done so.

Step by step guide to removing judgments

Here’s what to do if you paid within a month

• Search the register First, search the register to see what is recorded against you. If a county court judgment is shown, and you paid in full within a month, you can apply to have the judgment removed.

• Contact the court This will be the court where your case was last dealt with. There is a form to fill out, and you’ll need to know the claim number.

• Get confirmation You’ll also need written confirmation from the person you owed the money to (so get a receipt). If you can’t get a confirmation from the person you owed money to, the court will write to them for you.

• Pay a small fee And there is a fee to pay – the court will tell you this

[nice guy]

I want to warn people considering signing a guarantee with Travis Perkins that I believe they misuse these agreements against builders.

 

They charged me nearly £2k for goods I did not order or use. I did not sign for them and they had no proof I ordered them. They claim that a former subcontractor of mine signed for them. I could not believe that I lost the case against them. Their claim against me was a dogs dinner. The judge's view seemed to be that big companies don't make mistakes.

 

TP's legal department's most specific lie was to say that all orders are made by quoting a 6 digit security code. I never had one when i used the account. The judge swallowed it.

 

DO NOT SIGN ANY GUARANTEE OR OPEN ANY CREDIT FACILITIES WITH TRAVIS PERKINS

[king12345]

Did you contact the subcontract who made the order?

 

Sounds like fraud to me and tp recovered their money through you because they knew the subcontractor would have done a runner.

 

Given the amount, maybe it's worth appealing.

 

6 digit password?

 

I never had one in the 5 years I've had an account with them.

 

Total fabrication.

 

For the appeal, if you decide to go for it, get a statement from other tradesmen in the area regarding this 6 digit password lie.

 

Should be sufficient to prove that the subcontractor didn't have any authority to order goods on your behalf

[rebel11]

Hi nice guy

 

Did you send Travis Perkins a SAR Request, that would contain data regarding any 6 digit number, then Travis Perkins would be in a pickle with the Judge/Courts. Send them a SAR would cost £10, they have 40 days to respond.

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

 

Andy

[steampowered]

Its probably a bit late to re-open the case with TP if a court decision has already been made, but you could claim against the subcontractor who signed for the goods.

[rebel11]

Well, if TP have knowingly told untruths to the court, then that is a serious matter. Proof is required.