Jump to content


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3444 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

--

 

I just did something stupid....I found an oyster card on the floor a few days ago, it had around £1 left on it.

 

I just got the money transferred to my existing oyster card/handed the card in so £6 including the £1 on it.

 

What are my best options: I don't want a criminal record.

 

Yes it was stupid: my rationale was just to give the money to charity because it's unlikely to get back to its owner, but I didn't realise how seriously TFL takes this kind of thing...which I have now found out.

Edited by ims21
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

--

 

I gave the card in, said a friend gave it to me as he was leaving london.

 

I then gave my name (partially, not surname), gave a fake address and signed it. No I did not think this through, I just assumed it would go through without needing signatures etc. Yes I panicked. Yes this was overall not a smart choice.

 

The oyster it was topped up onto was bought with my debit card I assume some time ago.

Edited by ims21
Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the original card registered to you properly?

 

Forgive me if I sound naive -I have no knowledge of oyster cards other than basics.

 

If it is registered to you LT will have a record of a £1 credit being transferred to your card from another card (they will also presumably have the details of that cards legal holder?).

 

Personally -I would consider your existing card null & void and not use it since using any of the credit on it whilst a portion of it was obtained illegally is probably not wise if the £1 credit oyster is reported as lost/stolen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

when you hand a card in they also give you the £5 deposit, so £6 total.

 

I just used my card to get home, so I have already used it.

 

I do not know if my card was registered personally, I don't know if it's possible to find out. I just bought the card I think (but with my card)

Edited by ims21
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get it. An oyster card does not have a persons name on it. On the back of the card there is a card number in the top right hand corner. That number will be registered to whoever bought the card, if it is a normal card. Even if it is a visitors card I think it is still registered against someone. Why would the Oystercard people cancel a card in one name and transfer the £1 unused travel plus the £5 depost to someone else ?

 

The card will now be sent to an outside processing centre along with the request regarding the £6. I cannot see that they will add the £6 to your card and instead will contact the person who bought the card originally. The £6 will go back to the person whose card it is and I suspect that will be the end of it. As far as I know TFL staff do not process the refund straightaway on a cancelled card and have to send it off to be processed. So I am not why you think you have used the original card owners money.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

But it did go to my card since I used the money to go home (I did not have enough credit on my card before).

 

If that is the case then I suspect that the card you found was just a visitors card and the TFL person just took your word for it and transfered the money. The card you handed in will now just be destroyed and no investigations will happen. I am suspecting it is a visitors card, as the person who bought this has probably just thrown it away, as they did not have use of it again and could not bothered getting a £5 deposit back. If it has been registered in someone elses name, I would have thought the TFL employee would have noticed and that they would have challenged you.

 

The is a small chance of it being a normal card and it being reported as lost or stolen. Then someone might look at what happened with the old card money being transfered.

 

So I would forget about it and you will probably hear no more about it. It would not be wise to report what you have done, as you may be reporting something that they would never find out.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

He did challenge me slightly, he said "so friends just give each other money then" to which I replied I bought him a couple of pints. This was, I think, before he scanned it, he said it as soon as I said a friend was leaving london and had no more use for it.

Edited by ims21
Link to post
Share on other sites

He did challenge me slightly, he said "so friends just give each other money then" to which I replied I bought him a couple of pints. This was, I think, before he scanned it, he said it as soon as I said a friend was leaving london and had no more use for it.

 

The person who did the transfer has probably done something that is not allowed anyway. So they might not be keen to report anything. It will therefore just be a transaction among the other thousands done the same day.

 

As I said, you will only be caught out if the original card owner reports their card stolen and someone is willing to investigate what has happened. For £6 would they bother.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Worst case scenario is fraud by false representation and/or theft. If deemed serious enough could result in a prosecution and imprisonment.

 

 

The fact that you've blabbed it all online will make you relatively easy to find though, cheers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, relax, you're not in trouble.

The oyster card you handed in was not registered, that's why the ticket clerk was able to issue a refund without Id and without password.

He asked for your name and address to register the card in your name there and then and give you a refund.

When the card is not registered, to process a refund, the ticket clerk must input the minimum info required for registration, your name and address, otherwise the ticket machine won't let him process the refund.

If the card had been registered, he would have asked for a password which is given at registration point (ask for a registration form and see for yourself).

When someone forgets the password, a form of id is required to process the refund.

When the oyster card is read by the ticket machine and the clerk starts the refund process, all personal details come up on the screen and they're only allowed to process the refund if they're satisfied that the card owner is standing in front of them.

In your case the personal details were not on the screen because the card was not registered to anyone, so the clerk asked for your name and address to proceed to the next screen and give you a refund.

Even if the previous owner had the card number, they won't be able to report the card lost/stolen because the card was cancelled during the refund.

Also tfl insists on people registering their oyster because if lost no investigation or refund can be processed.

Just to avoid a panic attack, next time you find something, hand it in.

You got lucky this time.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Summary:-

 

You found a Oyster Card with with £1 credit.

 

You transferred the £1 credit from the found Oyster Card to your own registered Oyster Card.

 

Nothing was said at the time by the TFL Employee. You gave the wrong details at the time.

 

It's not great, but you definately won't go to prison. It is very unlikely they will write to you.

 

If they do update this thread, try not to worry.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Worst case scenario is fraud by false representation and/or theft. If deemed serious enough could result in a prosecution and imprisonment.

 

The fact that you've blabbed it all online will make you relatively easy to find though, cheers.

 

 

I do think we ought to get some sense of scale here. Whilst Bravot may be technically correct in terms penalties upon conviction available to Magistrates for allegations of breaches of some legislation, the reality is that for an offence of this level the threat of imprisonment is so incredibly unlikely as to be non-existent.

 

In the 30-odd years I've been engaged in this line of work, I cannot imagine that any of the hundreds of RP staff that I have met and / or worked with during that time would be likely to attempt to invoke a Fraud Act prosecution for £1. There would have to be evidence of persistent wrongdoing and considerable loss or the prosecutor would be looking at a severe castigation for what might be considered an abuse of process.

 

 

Hello Penguin.

 

I'm not a transport expert, from I've followed this forum for some time now. Fwiw, I haven't seen a case where the OP was pursued for fraud, and we've seen more serious cases than this. Please put prison out of your mind.

 

HB

 

I agree with Honeybee13.

 

From what I can see from reading the thread twice, the OP has not been reported for any offence nor questioned when asking for the fund transfer.

 

Yes, the OPs action may be considered irrational and wrong, but it seems that the transfer was completed without a hitch.

 

If an Oyster card is a simple PAYG card, not registered to anyone, which means it is transferable, the clerk will have made the transfer and probably thought no more about it.

 

 

The summary given by King12345 explains the process perfectly clearly.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said - worst case scenario. it does concern me though that people on here seem to see it as an innocent action?

 

 

Whether it's 1p, £1 or in this case £6 due to the deposit - it's wrong both legally and morally.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What exactly has he done?, found a discarded oyster card worth £1, asked for it to be transferred to his card, he wasn't challenged by the TFL employee, he didn't ask for £5 to be placed on to his card.

 

You have no need to be concerned, but thanks for your concern.

 

As I said - worst case scenario. it does concern me though that people on here seem to see it as an innocent action?

 

 

Whether it's 1p, £1 or in this case £6 due to the deposit - it's wrong both legally and morally.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said - worst case scenario. it does concern me though that people on here seem to see it as an innocent action?

 

Whether it's 1p, £1 or in this case £6 due to the deposit - it's wrong both legally and morally.

 

 

I agree, I said it is wrong in my post.

 

The action is immoral and it is clearly regretted by the OP, but so far as we know the OP has not been reported for any offence. If any offence were reported it will fall at the very lowest level in terms of the public interest tests.

 

Although we can all do it every day of the week in responding to threads on here, I'm sorry if I upset anyone by saying this, but simply see little point in advising the most frightening possible outcome of a non-existent prosecution unnecessarily.

 

Yes, the Fraud Act [2006] largely focusses on the action of the defendant and it is evident that the OP acted with intention of obtaining something for themselves to which s/he was not entitled, but CPS would not run with such a charge in the scenario posted here and if a Private Prosecutor attempted to do so, a request by the defendant for CPS to review the prosecution would be very likely to see the matter stopped in my opinion.

 

I'm all for letting the OP in any thread know when their actions might result in serious consequences for themselves, but like to try to err on the side of realism in every case.

 

These two sections from the Guidance to Crown Prosecutors (and which we all have to observe) will be of particular importance.

 

9. Diversion from prosecution – dealing with cases out of court

 

When considering the Public Interest in any case, consideration will be given as to whether the matter can be appropriately dealt with out of court. What is appropriate in the circumstances of each individual case will depend on the seriousness of the offence, the results of the offending behaviour, the antecedents of the offender and the likely outcome at court. Where an out of court disposal offers an outcome appropriate to the circumstances of the case, it should be considered and any relevant guidance taken into account. Wherever possible, the views of the victim should also be obtained and taken into account. In cases that are referred to a prosecutor for a charging decision, the CPS may recommend the case is dealt with by a simple caution or a conditional caution if that is considered appropriate.

 

10. Concluding investigations early on Public Interest grounds

 

Generally, Public Interest decisions should not be taken until sufficient key evidence has been obtained to meet the evidential standard. However, there will be cases where it is clear at an early stage that the Public Interest does not (and will not) require a prosecution.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...