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Arrows claimform - old GE debenhams Storecard + PPI counter claim

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Dear fellow Caggers

 

I'm in the process of requesting CCAs for some credit cards and storecards. However, I've got one Storecard with the above company (originally GE Capital now Santander) for which I took out Account Cover when I opened the credit card account back in 2000.

 

What I'm trying to establish is whether or not I may have a claim for being mis-sold PPI which I belive this Account Cover to be.:confused:

 

As I understand it one condition that must be satisfied is that I should have been made aware of how the account cover would impact on the interest rate.

 

Can anyone refer me to a good thread about this please?

 

Many thanks


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hi

i can't tell you if you have a valid claim but i can tell you im in a similar situation with ge money/santander cards (evans store card).

They have given me full and final response that they won't be refunding, and I have just filed my complaint with the FLA, which you would have to do too, as before the FOS timescale.

good luck

emmtay

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I'm looking for advice on whether or not a DN I received from Santander in relation to a store card is invalid. From reading other related threads such as Tale of a Dodgy DN etc, I think it is defective.

 

I believe it's defective because it does not give the date by which the default must be remedied in the correct prescribed term as it uses the phrase "To remedy this breach, you must pay the arrears within 14 days from receipt of this notice". The DN was dated 4 Sept and was posted 2nd class (I have envelope).

 

The DN then goes on with the usual two sentences that say "If the action required by this notice is taken before the date shown no further enforcement action will be taken ........ , followed by another sentence "If you do not take the action required by this notice before the date shown then the further action..... Of course, there IS no date shown other than the date the DN was created.

 

Also, I think there may be some question about whether the DN is laid out in the correct format - in relation to the two sentences detailed above, but this might be considered a "de minimus" issue

 

Going by the dates, the DN was raised on 4 Sept which was a Friday. I have proof it was sent 2nd class so allowing 4 working days for service this takes us to 10 Sept. 14 days on from this is the 24th Sept.

 

I then received a letter from Santander chasing for payment dated 18th Sept still only asking for the arrears, followed by a letter from Viking (who I think are actually Santander) dated 5 Oct requesting full payment.

 

So, am I right in thinking they haven't told me clearly enought when the required action should have been taken by. :confused:

 

Here is the DN

GESantanderDN.jpg

Edited by Pumpkinhead
To attach copy of DN

My opinions are not expressed as an agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. My advice is given freely but please remember to always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star below.

 

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You've been reading my thoughts on that wording already :D

 

AFAIK it has never been tested in Court, but I do think that it would not take much to show the possible confusion.

 

After all the paragraph referring to the 'date' is, by law' afforded more prominence than any other and therefore it is that one which 'grabs you attention'

 

So yes, IMHO that DN is defective in that it states that you have to rectify it before the date you actually receive it.

 

I would write and accept the account termination/closure and SAR them ASAP as they rarely fail to turn up useful info.

 

Have you already CCAs them? is the agreement enforceable?


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Thanks Gh. I've got the agreement and it's below. However, for months they only supplied the front page. Whether or not they actually form part of the original same agreement I don't know. I think as it stands the agreement is effective, but would welcome your thoughts. It was taken out in 2000.

 

Here are the links:

 

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv213/pumpkinhead50/GE%20Santander%20Storecard/GESantanderStoreCardSide1.jpg

 

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv213/pumpkinhead50/GE%20Santander%20Storecard/GESantanderStoreCardSide2.jpg

 

I also had PPI Account Cover with it for quite some time and I was wondering if I'd have a claim for mis-selling?


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If you need an extension on your time to try and figure this out further, if your account is with viking services now you can get in touch with a DMC and get to the point when they provide you with a reference number as this is all viking require to place a 28 day review on your account, gives you a bit of breathing room. Is there any update on the situation?

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Just to update this, FLA were useless, I was referred to the Insurers, who referred it back to Santander, and we went full circle! Luckily I had made a complaint to FOS, and when I got to the dead end again with Santander, FOS have taken on my case. Still waiting to hear the adjudicators decision, been about 3 months now, so hoping not too long!

Emmtay

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All gone quiet from my point of view! I made a SAR request in August and apart from getting an incomplete set of information from them then, nothing else since.


My opinions are not expressed as an agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. My advice is given freely but please remember to always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star below.

 

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Hi

I need to soon file my defence in relation to a claim from Arrow Global about an old Santander/Debenhams credit card.

 

 

I'm OK for the main part on the defence (dealt with others sadly) but

this one is a bit different in that the agreement involved PPI,

 

 

I want to use this as part of a counter claim.

The debt is just over £1½k and

I know the PPI element represents a good part of that.

 

Any thoughts on what I could add into my defence that makes it clear that a counter claim for the PPI is on the cards (part of the defence)

but that doesn't come across as an admission of guilt regarding the agreement itself.

 

Need to file the defence by Tues latest.

 

Would really appreciate any help -


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Hi

The original post was called Debenhams Store Card & PPI & CCA and was posted November 22 2009. All quiet since then until I received a few threats from Drydenfairfax and eventually a formal claim. The old thread doesn't really give much detail. What I'm trying to find out is whether it is wise or not to include a counter claim in relation to being misold PPI in my defence or whether doing that in some way compromises me?


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Oh righto.

 

Well in order for others to advise you, you will need to provide details of the claim. I think the general consensus is that you defend the claim and submit a separate claim for the refund.

 

It is my understanding you can counterclaim, but that it gets a little confusing and you will also need to pay a fee, unless you are exempt. I will ask site team to look in over the weekend for you.


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Many thanks


My opinions are not expressed as an agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. My advice is given freely but please remember to always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star below.

 

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Might it be an option to write (without prejudice of course) to the claimant or their solicitor to bring to their attention that the agreement (and their claim therefore) is likely to attract a counter claim for PPI miss-selling?.

 

What can I include in my defence about the PPI issue without compromising myself or incurring costs (to bring a claim etc)


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Might it be an option to write (without prejudice of course) to the claimant or their solicitor to bring to their attention that the agreement (and their claim therefore) is likely to attract a counter claim for PPI miss-selling?.

 

What can I include in my defence about the PPI issue without compromising myself or incurring costs (to bring a claim etc)

 

 

Once you put a point "without prejudice" you will not be able to rely on it in court.


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Ah yes, good point Brigadier2JCS


My opinions are not expressed as an agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. My advice is given freely but please remember to always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star below.

 

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threads merged and tidied for history - dx


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Anyone have any thoughts on this that might help me.

 

 

I am OK on the basic defence for the claim (they haven't responded to a S78 or CPR31.14)

or sent me any documents in support of their POC.

 

 

I really want some advice on whether it's a good idea to make a counter claim for the PPI that's attached to this old credit card debt or not.

If I just enter the standard defence (see below) could I raise a counter claim later if I wanted to?

 

 

Do I have to follow any pre action protocol if raising a counter claim?

 

 

The Claimant is Arrow Global and this relates to a Debenhams Card originally GE Capital then Santander

 

So apart from the PPI bit here's what I've put together as my defence so far:

 

I neither admit or deny the first paragraph of the

Claimant's Particulars of Claim which refer to a regulated

agreement number xxxxxx as having been entered into

originally between xxxxx and myself the Defendant

 

The Claimant has yet to disclose any such Agreement which conforms

to the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 CCA and

associated Regulations Specifically the Claimant is yet to

disclose an Agreement which is in the prescribed form, contains

all the prescribed terms as required under s60 of the CCA, has

been properly executed and which is not contrary to s82a of the

Act in question

 

With reference to paragraph two of the POC and the Claimant's

statement that a Default Notice was served, it is denied that any

valid Default Notice was served or that the alleged Agreement if

terminated, was done so correctly and in accordance with the CCA

In regard to paragraph three of the Claimant's POC and in

consideration of s136 of the Law of Property Act, it is denied

that the Claimant has any entitlement to benefit from the alleged

Agreement as either an assignee of a debt, or as an original

creditor or that the defendant has been notified of the assignment by letter.

 

The Claimant has failed to comply in any way with the pre-action conduct

practice direction. The Claimant has failed to respond to

requests under s78 (1) of the CCA requesting a copy of the alleged

Agreement and associated documents. The Claimant has also failed to respond to a request made pursuant to Civil Procedure Rule 31.14.

 

In regard this entire Claim, the Defendant denies that they owe

any monies to the Claimant and puts the Claimant to strict proof

to disclose a valid and enforceable regulated Credit Agreement

that exists between the Defendant and Santander, to disclose

evidence of a valid Default Notice and of such having ever been

served, to disclose evidence that the alleged Agreement if

terminated, was done so in the correct manner, and to demonstrate

that the Claimant has the legal right either under statute or

equity to issue this claim

 

As per Civil Procedure Rule 16 5 4 the Claimant is expected to

prove their allegation that the monies claimed are due

 

By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied

that the Claimant has any entitlement to the sum claimed from the

Defendant of £xxxx or any other such sums including associated

costs or relief

 

Their POC says:

 

The claim is for the sum of £XXXX in respect of monies owing by the defendant on a credit agreement

held by the defendant with Santander under account number xxxxx upon which the defendant failed to maintain payments.

 

A default notice was served upon the defendant and has not been complied with.

 

By virtue of a sales agreement between Santander and the claimant the claim vested in teh claimant who has a genuine commercial interest,

The defendant has been ntofiied of the assignment by letter.

 

Contact Drysdnefairfax solicitors on xxxxx


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Any thoughts on this anyone - I need to get my defence in by tomorrow latest so this is becoming quite pressing. Really could do with some more advice. Many thanks


My opinions are not expressed as an agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. My advice is given freely but please remember to always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star below.

 

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:jaw:Hi - Could someone please have a look at my query and help me - time is fast running out. Need to file defence tomorrow. Many thanks


My opinions are not expressed as an agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. My advice is given freely but please remember to always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star below.

 

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What is the issue date on your claim form?

 

Andy


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Hi

The claim was issued 19 Sept. I filed the AOS saying I would defend so gained another 28 days. This runs out on Weds this week.


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Defence date is today 33 days from and including the 19th Sept = 20th October


We could do with some help from you.

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Ihe mrs is in the room

and I can use her fingers this time too

 

 

I make it Tuesday midnight?


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Just saw your message about deadline in time. Ran back down to computer and managed to get my claim in with 3 minutes to go to midnight. Added in a small bit about counter claim but at least got it in on time hopefully. I see the MCOL site acknowledged I'd filed my defence today just before midnight but that it will process it tomorrow. I see I have to pay £60 for the counter claim. I will have to work out tomorrow how I go about paying that.

 

Thanks for spotting my slip up!

 

If it is a day early never mind - I only put a brief sentence about the PPI but at least I got it in - might put them off pursuing me.

Edited by Pumpkinhead
extra text

My opinions are not expressed as an agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. My advice is given freely but please remember to always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star below.

 

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Thought I would post an update.

 

Shortly after I received the County Court Claim (detailed above) I sent off both a CPR31.14 letter and a s78 request together with the £1 payment. Nothing came back until this week when I received a letter from the claimant (Arrow Global) in effective replying to the s78 request. The letter went as follows:

 

Dear Mr X

Arrow Global Ltd Account XXXXX

ASSIGNED BY Santander (Account No xxxxx)

 

We thank you for your letter dated xxx received on xxx and acknowledge your request for documentation pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

We do not accept that we are the creditor as envisaged by the above statute. However, we are willing to assist in obtaining that which has been requested. We will now process your request for documentation from the creditor and will revert in due course.

 

We return the payment of £1.00.

 

Now, I am a bit confused by this letter. The original debt was for a Debenhams Card with GE Capital which changed to Santander who then as I understood it, sold (assigned) the debt to Arrow Global. Am I right in thinking that "assigned" means the same as "sold" the debt to another company? The claimant on the County Claim Form is shown as Arrow Global and not Santander, so how can they say they do not view themselves as the creditor in this matter. If they are not the creditor then surely they have no claim against me? What do you all think?

 

I've not had any reply to my CPR31.14 request.

 

I filed my defence together with a very brief counter claim as there is a PPI issue involved in this matter too. I have paid the fee too.

 

Since filing my defence and the counter claim I've received some other documents from the Court as follows:

 

  • a notice of transfer of proceedings N271
  • An N149A Notice of proposed allocation to the Small Claims Track
  • An N180 Directions questionnaire Small Claims Track
  • EX370 Some bumpf about settling your case without going to a court hearing

 

The N271 says that the defendant has now paid the counter claim fee and that the claim has been transferred to the county court stated further on. The notice continues "To all parties - if you have not already done so you are urgently required to complete a Directions Questionnaire. To the claimant - Please note as the defendants response will now be treated as a counter claim you are also required to file a response using the enclosed response pack. Please be aware that if you do not dispute the counter claim the defendant may be able to obtain judgement against you for the amount they are claiming. As you will be responding as the defendant to the counter claim please read and complete the response forms listing yourself as the defendant. This does not apply to the Directions questionnaire where you should still list yourself as the claimant.

 

The N149A is confusing me a bit too. My name is shown as the Defendant but the letter seems aimed at the Claimant more than me. The notice says:

 

Important Notice

If you do not comply with this notice the court will make such order as appears to be appropriate. This could include striking out the claim or entering judgment.

Take Notice That

This is now a defended claim

The defendant has filed a defence and a counter claim

It appears that the case is suitable for allocation to the small claims track

(If you believe this is not appropriate contact ,,,)

You must by 7 Nov complete the small claims directions questionnaire N180 and file with relevant court and serve copies on all other parties.

 

I seem to remember in the case of a claim that is just defended, as opposed to defended plus a counter claim being made, that if the defendant doesn't do something (not sure what the something is) the case gets stayed automatically after so many days (a month or so I think).

 

At the end of the day I just want this all to go away. I am not bothered about getting back the PPI providing the claim is just dropped. What will happen if I do nothing? What will happen if the claimant does nothing? What will happen if I do nothing but the claimant does?

 

Would really appreciate your help asap as I have limited time to get this sorted and don't want another last minute rush.

Many thanks

Edited by Pumpkinhead
Extra information

My opinions are not expressed as an agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. My advice is given freely but please remember to always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star below.

 

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