Russia /China Middle Finger to Ebola

[Conniff]

As usual the worlds two most selfish countries have refused to help in this time of crisis.

 

I'm sorry to say this, but I will feel no sorrow should it break out in either of both of those countries.

 

Mind you, as per norm, it's only UK and USA throwing in assistance, there's not a lot from anywhere else.

 

 

Islamist problems are only miniscule compared with the problems Russia and China bring on the world. Isil will be gone one day, but Russia and China will still be here bleeding the rest of the world and taking what 'they' want and not giving a damn for anyone else.

[rebel11]

China has donated £5m it's something, but not enough, they should be taking the lead. Nothing from Russia.

 

The UK has donated £12m, but are doing a lot more, sending hospital ships,

servicemen, doctors etc.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29654982

 

They won't get it until they have Ebola victims.

 

Bejing airport are screening for Ebola, but that might not be enough. There are no direct flights from West Africa.

[determindator]

http://www.mintpressnews.com/while-america-sent-troops-to-fight-ebola-cuba-sent-an-army-of-doctors-2/197725/

 

Cuba helping

 

It should have been organised you could not leave the drawn line of the infected area unless you had been in quarantine to make sure you were clear before travelling.

[rebel11]

Cuba has one of the most advanced healthcare infrastructures in the world.

Free to everyone.

 

http://www.mintpressnews.com/while-america-sent-troops-to-fight-ebola-cuba-sent-an-army-of-doctors-2/197725/

 

Cuba helping

[BazzaS]

It should have been organised you could not leave the drawn line of the infected area unless you had been in quarantine to make sure you were clear before travelling.

 

Impractical. To be effective it would involve no physical contact with another person (to be sure not to have come into contact with their body secretions) for 21 days prior to travel.

 

An alternative might be quarantine on arrival, for 21 days.

This wouldn't have to be individual (so not individual accommodation without contact with anyone else, but "en masse")

Politicly this might be unacceptable (effect on trade, imagery of "prison hulks" moored offshore)

Travellers might also seek to circumvent it (e.g. Travel from West Africa to East Africa first, then deny having been in West Africa, knowing that to tell the truth means 21 days quarantine.......)

[unclebulgaria67]

Cuba has one of the most advanced healthcare infrastructures in the world.

Free to everyone.

 

I believe at one time they provided free lazer eyesight correction that would cost thousands in the UK.

 

But whilst they have good healthcare, it is a very poor country.

 

In regard to Russia/China, they always act in their own interests. Russia have a naval base in Syria and have deals with various middle eastern countries. It is about business and extension of their powers, not much to do with people. As for China, they are too busy making money in Africa as millions are mining the natural resources there. They are building railways and roads, as well as ports, but this is mainly to serve their own interest in getting the minerals from Africa to China. Once the minerals are depleted they won't be interested.

 

China is going to take over from the US as the biggest economy in the world within 5 years. Just look at where they are involved in the world. Australia has been virtually taken over by Chinese company investments in exploiting the mineral resources there.

[rebel11]

Cuba still suffering from the Cuban missle crisis. US santions and lack of commerce with US.

[unclebulgaria67]

Cuba still suffering from the Cuban missle crisis. US santions and lack of commerce with US.

 

Most American citizens hate communists and socialists. I have had debates with US Democrat party supporters about healthcare and they would not accept an NHS system there. There is a real fear of state provided services. They believe that there is more accountability for patients using private healthcare companies. Also they don't like the rationing that goes on in a state/taxpayer funded system. But then some of them will also say they don't like the fact that millions of American can't afford health insurance and hope that charities can bridge the gap.

 

Cuba would have to change to a democratic market based economy for the US to have normal relations with them.

[determindator]

Impractical. To be effective it would involve no physical contact with another person (to be sure not to have come into contact with their body secretions) for 21 days prior to travel.

 

An alternative might be quarantine on arrival, for 21 days.

This wouldn't have to be individual (so not individual accommodation without contact with anyone else, but "en masse")

Politicly this might be unacceptable (effect on trade, imagery of "prison hulks" moored offshore)

Travellers might also seek to circumvent it (e.g. Travel from West Africa to East Africa first, then deny having been in West Africa, knowing that to tell the truth means 21 days quarantine.......)

 

Reading your alternative I can see how practical my suggestion is. You quarantine from source and should have been done at it's earliest stage.

[rebel11]

There were only a couple of cases, they were managed in the way they have always been managed, then the numbers exploded, they carried on dealing with them the same way, clearly the capacity wasn't there to deal with them, people were left in the streets to die. Over 4,600 deaths, thus governments panicing.

 

Reading your alternative I can see how practical my suggestion is. You quarantine from source and should have been done at it's earliest stage.

[BazzaS]

Reading your alternative I can see how practical my suggestion is. You quarantine from source and should have been done at it's earliest stage.

 

What do you mean "quarantine from source", though?

Put people in segregation for 21 days prior to travel? If the healthcare system in affected areas is already overwhelmed ... Unlikely people would agree.

 

Segregate them for 21 days after leaving endemic area? (The original "quarantine" was 40 days, due to a longer incubation period... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarantine )

 

Are you suggesting quarantine as an individual without contact with your fellow travellers? quarantine en masse?

 

Where should those in quarantine be held?

All these issues (& more!) would need to be addressed before a quarantine policy could be practical and enforceable.

 

What of those travellers who travel first to a non-endemic area? (Which people would do to avoid quarantine....)

 

If "quarantined" prior to travel : how to resource and police it?

 

If you believe your suggestion to be practical ... give us more details (of what you mean & how it would work) to be persuasive

[determindator]

I mean, too little too late. This disease has been around for some time. Quarantine centres should have been set up years ago. Foreign aid was squandered. Should not have sent money but practical help. There's still time to quarantine though. Set up the centres, no one leaves the area until deemed clear. Containment is the only answer. The experts can work out the logistics.

[BazzaS]

I mean, too little too late. This disease has been around for some time. Quarantine centres should have been set up years ago. Foreign aid was squandered. Should not have sent money but practical help. There's still time to quarantine though. Set up the centres, no one leaves the area until deemed clear. Containment is the only answer. The experts can work out the logistics.

 

Years ago?

This outbreak was recognised by WHO in March 2014.

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2014_03_23_ebola/en/

 

No doubt there had been limited outbreaks of Ebola before it was formally recognised / identified by Prof Piot in 1976.

There have certainly been outbreaks in West Africa since 1976.

 

So when would should your quarantine have been introduced?

The current outbreak in West Africa hasn't failed to be controlled through an absence of knowing what to do.

 

It has failed to be controlled due to a mixture of:

1) Poor healthcare infrastructure

2) over-whelming of healthcare facilities

3) inadequate resourcing (especially PPE) of those healthcare facilities

The healthcare workers there know what needs to be done : they have dealt with this before. Them knowing what needs to be done and being able to do it are distinct, though

4) Mustrust / lack of knowledge of the public in the endemic area, with risk of non-cooperation.

 

Saying "they should have used quarantine" is all well and good : but they knew what they should have done ..... Knowing what to do & "being able to do it" when you haven't got the resources & some of the locals don't trust the message from healthcare - are 2 different things!

 

Consider this : with all the awareness of the West African outbreak, with all the resources of the most developed healthcare system in the world - 1 case of Ebola in the USA still managed to transmit to 2 other people even AFTER being recognised as a case of Ebola.

It isn't as simple as "ohh, use quarantine".

 

I'm also concerned that you are confusing "quarantine" / "self-isolation" with isolation.

There are no formal quarantine centres in The outbreak areas in West Africa. There are treatment/isolation centres, which is a subtle but important difference.

 

People exposed to an ebola case are asked to self-monitor [for temperature] (and self-isolate) where possible.

If they develop fever or symptoms they should go to a treatment centre for testing, and if they have Ebola should be isolated.

 

So, what do you mean by "quarantine centres" : I get the impression you don't understand the concept of quarantine - Quarantine happens after leaving an endemic area (so, reducing the risk of new infection in that group). Those quarantined are observed (outside the endemic area) for a period exceeding the incubation period. If no cases arise in that group, the whole group can be released from quarantine.

If a case arises in the group, they should be segregated, and the "clock reset"

 

If you are suggesting travellers should be "quarantined" prior to their travel .... If this is in an endemic area, there is a risk they'll still be exposed. Quarantine (as opposed to "self-isolation") is when the onsrvation process (for those not showing symptoms but potentially within the incubation period) occurs outside the outbreak area.

[Conniff]

But question remains, why aren't the two scourges of this world helping in any way? These self centered s***bag countries just don't care.

[king12345]

China has donated £5m it's something, but not enough, they should be taking the lead. Nothing from Russia.

 

 

 

The UK has donated £12m, but are doing a lot more, sending hospital ships,

 

servicemen, doctors etc.

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29654982

 

 

 

They won't get it until they have Ebola victims.

 

 

 

Bejing airport are screening for Ebola, but that might not be enough. There are no direct flights from West Africa.

How much of this money is really going to help?

It will be skimmed heavily like any other charity donation and a few copper coins will reach the destination.

I don't blame Russia and China for not digging deep into their pockets, they know how the western world works and that most of the money would end up being used for someone's new power boat.

[rebel11]

Russia and China are amoung the most corrupt counties in the world, so they won't be leading by example. Although China has very strict penalties.

 

http://www.transparency.org/country#CHN

 

http://www.transparency.org/country#RUS

 

How much of this money is really going to help?

It will be skimmed heavily like any other charity donation and a few copper coins will reach the destination.

I don't blame Russia and China for not digging deep into their pockets, they know how the western world works and that most of the money would end up being used for someone's new power boat.

[determindator]

BazS you should apply to work for the WHO, explain how it's done:|

[BazzaS]

BazS you should apply to work for the WHO explain how it's done:|

 

You don't know who I work for, nor what I do!.

 

Do you disagree with anything I've posted (if so, why?), or think it is factually incorrect?

 

I bet : Nothing I've said contradicts / is contradicted by WHO's info.

 

Even so, I'm aware that what MSF do (nor the UK's PPE guidance) isn't per WHO guidelines, so don't expect even

The experts to all agree!

 

I'm not holding myself up as an "Ebola expert", but I know what the experts are advising, and I have access to experts.

 

To back up these assertions (UK guidance differs from WHO over PPE, but matches MSF's practice) : If I can quote Prof. Shaheen Mehtar (from 15th October, in a discussion on Ebola PPE, a discussion on a list that anyone could join, and whose contents are not "protectively marked")

 

I wonder if I might help since I serve on the WHO committees for EVD. First, I am not sure that the UK actually follows the WHO recommendations and they are going down the path more of MSF with coveralls of a impervious material while the WHO says one can wear gowns or overalls of such material. The reason for this is because in West Africa we are working under much higher temperatures compared with the UK. Plus there is no ventilation in most of the ETUs and they are basically made of plastic sheeting or similar at the moment. So the HCW are overheating"

 

Prof Mehtar is the chair of ICAN

http://www.icanetwork.co.za/about/board/

So she knows a bit about Ebola........

 

Accurate info / public education about Ebola is essential, to prevent panic & erroneous responses : (responses by the public or by government!)

 

(Let alone cruise liners being refused docking in Mexico because ONE passenger [who has no symptoms!] MIGHT have handled clinical specimens from Thomas Duncan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/ebola/11171462/Carnival-Magic-returns-to-Texas-after-Belize-and-Mexico-refuse-to-allow-possible-Ebola-victim-to-disembark.html

 

So, in the end it doesn't matter who I work for (currently - between jobs, new job from tomorrow], and in 1,850 CAG posts, you'll never have seen me publicly claim a qualification or job title .....

What matters, I suggest, is if I am citing accurate info : and I bet you can't find significant factual error / faults with it.

[determindator]

Well, thanks for your analysis BazS, I hope the new job tomorrow goes in the right direction for you.