Rejecting a faulty 2nd hand car - Not your usual case ***Resolved***

[tj2002]

Brief Overview:

I purchased a car around 5 weeks ago from a used dealer for around £1900 on the proviso they arranged for it to be serviced as advertised (it hadn't been).

Post purchase we arranged for the cambelt to be done at the same time for an extra £230.

 

After getting the car back various bits of trim had been put back shoddily and the car was seriously lacking power compared to before.

Turns out the dealer users an 'ex-ford specialist' mechanic moonlighting from his normal job and not an actual garage.

 

A week later it goes back to them to be fixed as the timing is clearly out,

I get it back and whilst it seems some power has returned it now idles at around 1200 rpm and sounds bad.

I also notice at this point that the Engine Management Light bulb has been removed

although I foolishly didn't check this pre-purchase.

 

I take the car back again and leave it with them for a week while I go away

and am told they will send to a different garage as I didn't want the same guy working on it.

 

 

I've picked up today to be told there is a fault P1381

- Variable Cam Timing Overadvanced (Bank #1)

but they're not willing to spend any money fixing it as it drives fine and must only be a fraction out.

 

I drive the car home and it's clearly in limp mode.

I decide to get it looked at by an independent with a view to getting it fixed and claiming the costs back from the seller.

 

The car has been looked over and come back with the following faults:

 

P1383 - Variable Cam Timing retarded

Serpentine Belt in poor condition

Oil and Coolant Leak

Bolt in top of rocker cover stripped of thread

Engine Oil Overfilled

Front and Rear Brake discs badly corroded

Exhaust Blow, Cracked Catalyst

No locking wheel nut found

 

Based on all this and the fact I've given them ample opportunity to fix the original issue,

which still isn't fixed I want to reject the car for a refund

but am unsure of the exact steps to do so.

 

 

My understanding is as follows:

 

Write a letter of rejection with reasons why

Await response

If none then send letter of intent re small claims court

If no response then start moneyclaim proceedings.

 

A couple of questions though...

 

What happens with the v5 document if I'm rejecting the car?

Do I mention the fact that I will consider court action if we can't reach an amicable arrangement.

Do I call to tell them that I'm rejecting the car before the letter?

Do I insist that they come and collect the car from me?

 

Sorry this is quite a complicated first post, any advice is gratefully received.

 

Cheers

 

Dom

[f16]

This might be better answered in the "Motoring" section.

Site team notified.

[rebel11]

Hi tj2002

 

Welcome to CAG

 

Have a read of the following:-

 

http://www.norfolk.gov.uk/view/NCC094699

 

How did you pay for the car? This is important so we can provide further advise to you.

 

This thread is fine in this forum.

[tj2002]

Thanks, I will read over that today. I paid over mine and my girlfriends credit card, plus some on a debit card.

[rebel11]

Hi tj2002

 

Send the following amended template to dealer, send it Recorded Delivery. In addition to what's in the template, explain that the car is ready for them to collect.

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-rejecting-a-second-hand-car-bought-from-a-dealer

 

Because you paid by Credit Card that also allows you to make a claim against the Credit Card company, a section 75 claim.

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_different_ways_of_buying_e/consumer_buying_goods_and_services_on_credit_or_by_debit_card_e/consumer_extra_protection_when_you_buy_on_credit_or_debit_card_e/consumer_credit_act_1974_-_section_75.htm

 

 

Thanks, I will read over that today. I paid over mine and my girlfriends credit card, plus some on a debit card.

[tj2002]

Thanks, I've prepped the letter and will send it off today. Depending on their response would I be best fringe to claim back through visa first or through moneyclaim? I suspect the case may be too complicated for visa to touch.

[rebel11]

Why would it be too complicated for Visa to touch? The only thing that matters is that it's meets their criteria for Section 75 claims.

 

Thanks, I've prepped the letter and will send it off today. Depending on their response would I be best fringe to claim back through visa first or through moneyclaim? I suspect the case may be too complicated for visa to touch.

[tj2002]

Because the faults only came to light after the cambelt change. cab seem to think it may be covered under the supply of goods and services act 1982 rather than soga...

[rebel11]

I disagree with CAB, all these faults didn't occur after the cambelt was changed, they were inherent at the point of sale.

Granted the car isn't new, but that is a lot of faults.

 

Because the faults only came to light after the cambelt change. cab seem to think it may be covered under the supply of goods and services act 1982 rather than soga...

[tj2002]

But would they be deemed to be wear and tear items though. The lady at CAB said I could try for a refund but legally it may be questionable

[rebel11]

Read the link in post 3.

 

But would they be deemed to be wear and tear items though. The lady at CAB said I could try for a refund but legally it may be questionable

[tj2002]

I've just read through that, very useful stuff. However, the crux of my issue, as in the ecu fault relating to the cambelt change was not present at the time of sale although some of the other faults will have been.

[Conniff]

It matters not if the eng light was removed before sale or during an attempted repair. The fact remains there is a fault that you were not told about. Only things you have been told or things that you should reasonably be expected to notice while examining the car pre-purchase have no come back.

 

 

This also isn't a case of buying, disappearing for 5 weeks and then going back with a rejection, you have had constant contact with the seller.

 

 

Manufacturers don't have set points for timing because it's fun, the precision of the timing is critical and to say 'ah well it's near enough' just isn't good enough.

 

 

Do you have any of these things in writing ?

[tj2002]

I don't have anything in writing unfortunately, I didn't forsee any issues and thought I was being proactive getting the belt done. I've drafted a letter requesting a refund now, will see how it plays out but I feel less hopeful than I did this morning! Thanks so much for the advice and keep it coming

[Conniff]

It's very highly likely to certain he will reject your request. The motor trade hasn't got a stinking name for nothing.

[tj2002]

Just thought I'd give everyone an update on here in case it helps anyone in the future.

 

After a lot of work from and and a futile attempt to get the garage to refund me and return the car I instigated a section 75 claim against my credit card provider as, under the consumer credit act they are equally liable for the purchase of faulty goods. After an independent inspection which threw up all kinds of other issues (cracked CAT, perished bushes etc), my credit card provider have decided that it would be more cost effective to take the car off us and refund us the cost of the car, plus all consequential loss assosciated with the purchase (Cost of the cambelt change, attempted diagnosis and fix and inspection).

 

Obviously you should always inspect a car before you buy it and if in doubt, get someone more qualified to look it over, but while the law is often an ass, in the case of section 75, it's proven to be an absolute god-send!

[Conniff]

Christmas magic, congratulations.

 

 

This doesn't mean the seller has got away with it, they don't just pay and forget, they will now pursue him for a refund.

[rebel11]

Well Done tj2002.

[tj2002]

Glad to hear the seller will get pursued now, thought they'd got away with it to be honest. I suspect the CC provider will carry a little more weight than I did

[rebel11]

CAB were wrong. Even though you were reluctant to carry out a Section 75, it's good to see that you followed the advice given.

 

 

Glad to hear the seller will get pursued now, thought they'd got away with it to be honest. I suspect the CC provider will carry a little more weight than I did

[tj2002]

Almost forgot, huge thanks to Rebel11 and everyone else who offered advice on this thread!

[poor-boy]

Glad you got it sorted and the guys on here are excellent with advice