paid speeding fine - didn't send licence - Now Summons - Help!

[Laya23]

In May 2014 I was caught doing 37mph in a 30mph zone.

I got fined £100 which I paid in time.

I needed to send my licence off to get the points endorsed

 

at the time I couldn't find the paper part (I knew I had it somewhere so didn't order a new one and carried on looking).

I eventually received a reminder in the post saying I had paid but need to send my licence off to get the points added,

and I had an interview which I needed it for so vowed to send it off afterwards.

 

In this time I have received a court summons, saying I can plead guilty/not guilty etc.

I am aware it's my fault for not sending my licence off

I have already admitted the offence by paying the fine!

 

Does anyone know what happens from here?

[Aretnap]

Easiest thing to do is to send in a postal guilty plea, with a statement in the mitigation box apologising for taking up the court's time, and saying that you would have accepted the fixed penalty had your licence been available.

 

The most likely result is that you'll still get 3 points, but the fine will be a bit larger (around a third of your weekly post-tax income, plus another £100ish in costs and victim surcharge).

 

If you're very lucky the magistrates might see this as an administrative reason beyond your control for not taking up the fixed penalty and fine you at the same level (ie £100 and no costs) though I wouldn't get my hopes up too high on that front as it sounds like you had plenty of opportunity to send off for a replacement licence.

 

There's no need to attend in person if pleading guilty though turning up well dressed and making a good impression may improve your chances of keeping the fine down - whether they improve it enough to make it worth missing a day's work is another question.

 

Meanwhile the ticket office should return the £100 you originally paid as you didn't comply with the rest of the requirements for accepting the fixed penalty - contact them if they haven't done it already.

[Sidewinder]

What exactly have you been summonsed for?

 

As I understand it, DVLA would normally issue a warning where a licence is not sent back to them for endorsement, and after 28 days they would then revoke the licence leaving you to apply for a new one.

 

I stand to be corrected but I think that you can no longer drive after the revocation and until a new licence is issued, and you may also have problems in answering the question about revocation or disqualification when insuring a vehicle.

 

EDITED - In the light of the post above, I may have missed the point. You say that you paid the original fine? Is this not the case? Once again, what is the summons actually for?

[Aretnap]

Not in relation to a fixed penalty.

 

A fixed penalty is essentially an offer to dispose of the matter without a court appearance and it's entirely your choice whether to accept it (by paying £100 and surrendering your licence for endorsement) or not. Not accepting it leads to a summons for speeding.

 

If you're eventually convicted by a court then that's when you do have an obligation to surrender your licence and the DVLA will demand that you do this - and then revoke your licence when they get bored of waiting. But the OP isn't at that point yet.

[Sidewinder]

Agreed but what threw me was that the OP claimed to have paid the fine?

[KrashBandikoot]

This may help.

 

A few years back my wife was caught speeding and at the time she couldn't produce her licence so the DVLA wrote to her asking her to surrender it and if she didn't then it would be revoked after 1 year.

 

Back in 2012 DVLA screwed my licence up, (and still have), and I was in court for driving while otherwise in accordance, (in short the DVLA state I have never passed a test), but I presented evidence to the CPS solicitor that proved I had satisfied the police on stops in the past I indeed had a full licence and the 'charge' was reduced from driving while otherwise in accordance to failure to produce.

 

I explained to the court that despite sending off various items of ID to the DVLA, (as set down by them), to apply for a licence, they refused to issue as I made it clear if they issued a provisional licence I would re-pass the test and take them to court to recover the costs.

 

Anyway, the bottom line here is that the court was sympathetic to my position and gave me a conditional discharge with no points and no fine to pay offering the advice I should attempt to be issued with a licence in my hand - Just to add, my original licence was destroyed in a fire in 2009.

 

Simply explain the situation to the court, (if you do go to court it'll be for a failure to produce summons), and what the circumstances were. In my experience the courts and CPS want the path of least resistance, (they tend to be cattle markets these days), and an easy life. When it comes to complex matters they don't want to spend hours and hours on it. They simply want a quick in and out turn around because they have more serious things to deal with and better fines to impose to generate revenue.

 

The police, the courts and the CPS all know what DVLA are like and how they screw things up hence why now newly qualified drivers are issued with a certificate to keep as well as one to send off to the DVLA when exchanging your licence for a full one.

 

As for the DVLA, they still have "no record" of my having passed the test even though the court accepted my evidence and were lovely enough to write me a letter outlining this. Their stance still is I'm entitled to drive/ride but only entitled to provisional entitlement and I have not provided evidence I am who I am so I still have no licence in my hand as they still will not issue me with a licence. These idiots are a law unto themselves when they so easily dismiss even a magistrates court letter!

 

So I wouldn't worry about it too much, such a small 'offence' is so trivial it's more or less a complete waste of the courts time and the CPS tend not to pursue such matters too hard. Of course excessive speeding, drink/drug driving and other more serious road traffic matters are a different ball game entirely but failure to produce is so low level it doesn't even warrant a fine or points.

 

Hope that helps

[Raykay]

Hope that helps

 

 

Completely irrelevant.

 

 

The OP was given the opportunity of the fixed penalty process instead of a court case.

Part of that process is to submit their driving licence, which they did not do, so could not comply with the offer and it became a court case.

[KrashBandikoot]

 

If that is true, then answer WHY the DVLA wrote to my wife for her speeding offence asking her to apply for a new licence so the points could be added because the previous licence was lost otherwise her existing licence would be expired after a year?

 

It doesn't matter if it's court or the local fixed penalty team, it's a DVLA matter.

 

And why did the OP not say that his money was returned? If it can't be complied with because a licence is lost, stolen, destroyed, defaced then they shouldn't have accepted the money and it should have been returned on the same principle that those idiots who attempt to evade the fine by issuing a cheque/postal/money order for more than the fine get their payment back and it gets sent to court.

 

It seems on the face of it that the FPN team have accepted the money therefore it's an end to the matter and the summons is for failure to produce rather than non-compliance or refusing to accept the offer.

[Raykay]

Your wife would have been convicted by a court and did not produce her licence, the FPN process is completely different - if the licence is not submitted, the FPN process is cancelled, any payment made is refunded and the case proceeds to court.

 

If convicted at court and points awarded, the court add the points to the licence and notify the DVLA of them. If the licence is not produced at court (for them to add the points), that is when (as in your wife's case) the DVLA get involved and ask for the licence to be returned or it will be revoked.

[KrashBandikoot]

That's a fair comment Ray BUT ... (Oh there's always a but isn't there ), the OP said he'd paid the fine on time and makes no mention of the money being returned then getting a summons to court.

 

I would imagine the court action is for failing to produce his driving licence rather than the speeding offense itself as with the fine paid and the cheque cashed then surely the admission that he was speeding has been accepted by the money being accepted by the FPN team???

 

Now I know the laws of the land change on an almost daily basis in favour of the authorities, but surely they haven't changed so you get pinched for the same offense twice and so have to double up on the points and fines???

 

I would imagine a guilty plea along with sending off his licence to the court will result in a paper exercise and at the most a 'modest fine' along with a victims surcharge and a token costs amount as the original offense isn't being challenged, it's been admitted by the form returned and the payment sent.

 

At least that's the way I look at it.

[dx100uk]

gentlemen....

 

 

the op has not been back since 12:41 on October 12th.

stayed around less than 2hours

no relies had been posted by that time

so I suspect nothing has been read or seen by them.

 

 

 

dx

[Raykay]

 

I would imagine the court action is for failing to produce his driving licence rather than the speeding offense itself

 

As above, the OP has not returned to reply. The £100 would be refunded as the OP had not submitted their licence, and would not be dealt with under the fixed penalty system because of that. The process then reverts to a summons for the original offence of speeding.

[KrashBandikoot]

As above, the OP has not returned to reply. The £100 would be refunded as the OP had not submitted their licence, and would not be dealt with under the fixed penalty system because of that. The process then reverts to a summons for the original offence of speeding.

 

Actually this isn't true. I was caught via a speed camera in 2013 and because the DVLA won't issue me a photo ID licence because they claim I do not meet the ID requirements to be issued with one, (no idea what the hell they want since I have a digital passport and sent that off as proof of ID), I don't have a licence in my hand due to my last licence, (which was paper), being lost in a fire.

 

I paid the £100 fine, 6 months later it was refunded and no further action was taken. So having the entitlement to drive but not a licence in your hand seems to be a way around NIP's and FPN's. And more recently I checked with the DVLA and they have confirmed my last motoring conviction was in 1998 which is when the last licence update was made.

 

I suggest people don't lay down and take this sort of crap from speed camera vans. They have sod all to do with road safety and everything to do with revenue generation.

 

And before anyone leaps on me, I got an email alert yesterday, (the 21st June), at 3:30pm stating this thread had been posted to though I can't seem to find the post contained in the email

Edited June 22, 2016 by KrashBandikoot
Additonal comment

[Raykay]

Until recent times there were two ways that speeding offences were dealt with,

either no further action,

or summons to magistrates court.

 

Now there are two addidional ways if conditions are met

- speed awarenes course

and fixed penalty.

 

One of the conditions to accept the fixed penalty

is that the person's driving licence is submitted,

if it is not,

the offer is withdrawn and the matter reverts to either

no further action (as in your case),

or summons to magistrates court (as in the OP's case).

[Whataripoff!]

This i believe is a huge Govenment [problem], I too had received 3 points and £100 fixed penalty, i sent my driving licence off and paid the fine but made the huge mistake of not sending my licence off via recorded delivery.

 

I thought nothing more until i received the £100 credited back into my bank account and on speaking to the fine issuer was told it was because i had not sent off my licence so the case was proceeding to court which it did and stupidly i pleaded guily on line as was told the fine would be 30% less.

 

After writing what i thought was a nice letter explaing the circumstances of the lost licence etc and putting myself at the mercy of the court i was duely given 5 points and a £456 fine, astounding.

 

Hands up i was doing 47mph on a dual carriageway but i really feel that i have been scamed, whats to say my licence wasn't chucked in the bin to raise more funds via a bigger fine?

 

My advice is get a solicitor, go to court and stand up for yourself

 

The thing that really gets my back up is that i never had to sent off my new licence on recept of the larger, second fine and points award so why did i have to send it off the first time, makes me wonder if the system is praying for human error on our behalf.

[Raykay]

If it was 47 in a 30 limit, the Magistrates guidelines are 4 - 6 points and an income related fine, plus any costs etc.

Courts no longer require licences to be submitted, but to accept a fixed penalty offer, the fixed penalty office still require the licence to be submitted to them, and the £100.