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HSBC - Hardship claim and the Bank's response


lukebolger
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Hi guys, I am trying to claim my bank charges back (I think about £3000 worth over past five years)

 

I have sent them a letter asking for the records of bank charges back 6 years and I sent them the £10 cheque. I have had no reply in one whole week....

 

Can they really get away with ignoring customers???

 

Please help

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Hiya Luke.

Welcome to CAG.

 

The bank has 40 days to send you your statements. How long ago did you send the request?

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Most of the time they make you wait as long as possible. Make sure you keep a note of the date for day 40. If they don't send them by this date, we have another letter to send them, but they do normally turn up.

 

It's just a waiting game at the moment i'm afraid.

 

Have a good read around the bank forums, so you can see how others are getting on.

 

Which bank are you with? I will move this thread to the banking forums, you will get more advise in there. ;)

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Now moved. :)

 

Keep us up to date with any developments.

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Hi LB , welcome to the forum :)

 

Good advice there from SSL .... if you send a SAR they have , by Law, 40 days from receiving your request to having to comply .....it helps if you have a record of when they received it e.g. a recorded delivery trace ..

 

They may have a lot of documents , statements etc to find , so it's worth while giving them the time .....

 

However ,if they fail to send you all that you're asking for , or go beyond the deadline .... they are in breach of the Data Protection Act .

 

In which case come back and we'll sort out a call-up letter for you .. someone will answer , and we're user-friendly on here .... :D

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello everyone! Happy new year to one and all (except the banks)

 

I have got my charges summary back from HSBC - Just under £1000 of charges!

 

I am at a loss of what to do now to claim them back..

 

Any help ?

 

Thanks!

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Hi Luke :)

 

As a matter of interest , did you send a SAR with £10 ? If so you should have got a lot more back than a charges summary . They are supposed to at least send all your statements , so that yu can work out for yourself what charges they have imposed .. how do you know that what they have given you is the full story ? Have a look at these links and see if you think you need to ask them for more.........

 

What to ask for in a SAR (courtesy of Freakyleaky)

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca.html

 

S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) information, they have a legal obligation to provide ALL of the records they hold on you when you request it. This includes ALL of your accounts ALL of their internal notes and ALL of their correspondence ANYTHING with your name on it, and all for £10

 

They should send you anything with your name on it for any account of yours they have for a single Subject Access Request. This has nothing to do with how many accounts you hold with them its a request for all and any data they hold concerning you, this includes :

 

copies of correspondence

copies of internal notes,

copies of any telephone recordings or a transcript of the recording

copies of statements of account

 

and last but not least a copy of the terms and conditions agreed to by you governing the account.

 

Literally anything with your name on it or about you... and all for £10.00

Send anyone who has not fully complied with your Subject Access Request an LBA stating that if they don't comply you will be taking them to court under the data protection act

 

If you think you've got enough to proceed without doing this ... then you should read the FAQs which will give you the procedure to follow ...

 

Step by Step Instructions post OFT Test Case

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-example-step-step-instructions.html

 

1.Prelim letter

2.Letter before action

3.Court Claim lodged

 

Come back and ask if you need any further guidance ,Luke, someone will answer and we're user -friendly on here :D

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Just one point Luke , if you get to the court stage make sure you ask for the revised Particulars of Claim (which should be available by the time you need them for court ... )

 

But carry on with your initial letter to HSBC asking for the charges back .... they need to know that the account is 'In Dispute'.

 

They will come back and tell you that they won the court case and that all their charges are fair etc, etc ....... IGNORE it , and carry on with your programme .... they are trying to put you off...... :rolleyes:

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Thankyou for the replies guys! :) well I'm not sure what an SAR is but I sent a letter saying give me my statements fr the past six years etc if you don't I will seek remedy from the information comissioner

etc and enclosed

a

cheque for 10 pounds. They sent a couple of pages with all (I assume) my charges on them with the dates try were taken. But this is not a bank statement like you get in the post. They said they won't charge me

for the service and have destroyed the cheque I sent.

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It doesn't matter if they charged you or not ....... you sent a Subject Access Request asking for your statements (if nothing else ) and they have failed to comply ..... they have 40 days from the receipt of your original request to produce.... or they are in contravention of the Data Protection Act ........

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/129-data-protection-act-non-compliance-template-letters-

 

send them one of these letters , whichever applies to your situation - btw make sure you send it 'Recorded Delivery ' at least... so you can track it's receipt ... do the same with all stuff for the banks .....

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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This is what I sent to HSBC - I am writing to request a fully comprehensive list of all the default charges for direct debit, unauthorised overdrafts and standing orders I have paid since 27 July 2001.

 

Please find enclosed a cheque for the maximum statutory charge of £10. If you are unable to provide this data, I will accept a copy of my statements; I understand that statements on their own are not covered by the Data Protection Act 1998, yet I’m not requesting the statements per se, but the charges, which I’m entitled to by law.

 

I look forward to your response within 40 days, as HSBC is obliged to reply under the Data Protection Act. If not I shall seek remedy from the Information Commissioner.

Yours faithfully,

 

I think for now i will proceed with the notice before action letter

 

Many thanks!

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Ah, you gave them an 'out' there, luke.... by saying you'd settle for the list .... so unless you submit a fresh SAR, you can't fault them on it ....

 

Is there any way you can take photocopies luke .... you could do with one or two copies of the list if you're going to proceed to court with it .... but don't let the original out of your possession ....I'd say you're better to have that for any future court action ...

 

I think what you need now is a Prelim letter .. giving them 14 days from when they receive it to reply ...

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/111--letter-preliminary-approach-for-repayment

 

Then send the Letter Before Action .... giving them a further 14 days .... by that time ,hopefully , the legal team will have come up with new , relevant Particulars of Claim to submit to the courts ....

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/112-letter-before-action-bank-charges

 

Remember to send 'Recorded Delivery' and come back and ask if you need further help ....

Take it one step at a time luke . you'll get there.... :-)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Hey Guys, I was just reading a post on here about "HSBC no agreement contract". Im just wandering if I will need a copy of the original agreement I had with HSBC for going to court? Could you advise me If I will be needing this? All I have so far is the charges summary

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Hi Luke .......:)

 

Not sure what you mean here .... generally there is no agreement as such for a current bank acount ... so you won't need that for court ...

 

I'm still of the opinion that you should get all your statements and such via a SAR . ... then you can work out just how much they've taken off you ..... (unless you're 'on-line banking' of course , in which case you can access your statements there .)

 

whichever , you have time to be accurate with how much they owe you , before you need to consider taking it to court .....at the moment we're all waiting for new guidance on how to proceed with the court cases :)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Hey guys - I have sent the request of moneys to HSBC on the 5th. They have until the 19th to respond and on the 19th I will send the notice before action to them.

 

I have not had a response yet....

 

If i receive no response of my request of moneys shall I just continue regardless?

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Absolutely Luke , don't wait for them , stick to your timetable (as per # 8 ) not theirs.... :D

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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12 January 2010

 

REF *************

 

We are writing to further your complaint relating to bank charges.

 

As you will be aware, issues relating the the level, fairness or lawfulness of these charges have been subject of legal proceedings between us (with several other banks) and the Office of Fair Trading which started on the 27th July 2007.

 

These legal proceedings have now ended, with the Supreme Court confirming that the bank charges are not capable of amounting to penalties at common law and that the level of them cannot be assessed for fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations.

 

In summary we believe that the disputed charges were properly charged and the outcome of the legal proceedings confirms our position. We are therefore not upholding your complaint and we will not be refunding your bank charges.

 

If you believe we have failed to address all the issues raised in your complaint, you may escalate your concerns by contacting us and setting out the details so that we can consider this further. All correspondents should be addressed to, The senior Manager, Service Quality team, HSBC bank plc, Arlington business centre, Leeds. LS11 0PP. Alternatively you can email us at [email protected] or call us on 08457404404.

 

We should point out however, that we do not believe there is any legal basis on which the amount of the charges can be challenged. If we do not hear from you within 8 weeks of the date of this letter we will consider your complaint closed.

 

I note that you requested that HSBC does not pursue any potential enforcement action as regards the debt presently due on your account by reason that this debt consists of bank charges which you are disputing. Following the decision by the Supreme Court on 25 Nov 2009 HSBC believes that the charges have been correctly applied and therefore is entitled to pursue recovery of the outstanding debt

 

your sincerely

 

Chris Mathews Service Manager

 

 

END

 

So... Please can someone inform me if I should bother carrying on my complaint as they are getting hostile?

 

If I do take court action is there going to be any legal advice from the legal team on this forum?

 

Please advise

 

Luke

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12 January 2010

 

REF *************

 

We are writing to further your complaint relating to bank charges.

 

As you will be aware, issues relating the the level, fairness or lawfulness of these charges have been subject of legal proceedings between us (with several other banks) and the Office of Fair Trading which started on the 27th July 2007.

 

These legal proceedings have now ended, with the Supreme Court confirming that the bank charges are not capable of amounting to penalties at common law and that the level of them cannot be assessed for fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations.

This is a half -truth as usual........ :mad:

In summary we believe that the disputed charges were properly charged and the outcome of the legal proceedings confirms our position. We are therefore not upholding your complaint and we will not be refunding your bank charges.

 

If you believe we have failed to address all the issues raised in your complaint, you may escalate your concerns by contacting us and setting out the details so that we can consider this further. All correspondents should be addressed to, The senior Manager, Service Quality team, HSBC bank plc, Arlington business centre, Leeds. LS11 0PP. Alternatively you can email us at [email protected] or call us on 08457404404.

That would get you precisely nowhere ,if you call them you'll only get hassle ....... and you should have been told that you could complain to the Ombudsman, as thousands more have done...

 

We should point out however, that we do not believe there is any legal basis on which the amount of the charges can be challenged. If we do not hear from you within 8 weeks of the date of this letter we will consider your complaint closed.

 

I note that you requested that HSBC does not pursue any potential enforcement action as regards the debt presently due on your account by reason that this debt consists of bank charges which you are disputing. Following the decision by the Supreme Court on 25 Nov 2009 HSBC believes that the charges have been correctly applied and therefore is entitled to pursue recovery of the outstanding debt

What they believe has got nothing to do with it .... what they are not telling you is that the Supreme Court left the door ajar for reclaiming under a slightly different part of the Regulations .....

your sincerely

 

Chris Mathews Service Manager

 

 

END

 

So... Please can someone inform me if I should bother carrying on my complaint as they are getting hostile?

That depends on whether you're up for a fight , Luke .. :)

 

If I do take court action is there going to be any legal advice from the legal team on this forum?

 

It is my belief that the legal team are working on it as we speak .... but I've asked a Site Team member for advice on this one .......

 

Please advise

 

Luke

 

Incidentally , two points luke .... if luke bolger is your real name , then you may be identifiable by the spies from HSBC who haunt these sites..

maybe best to open up a new thread under an alias......

Second point , once you've got a thread , stick with it, it keeps all your personal questions and advice in one place .... makes it much easier to follow...... :)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Hi Luke,

 

I have merged two threads for you and have asked admin to sort out the other issue for you. :D

Edited by citizenB

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