Mupster v NatWest

[dantracey]

hang in there bud it wont be long now...i got home today to find postman had been and guess what i finally got AQ..LOL and cheque cleared today to

[Mister Twister]

Hi Mupster.

 

I am a few days ahead of you. AQ submitted and recieved a copy of Cobbetts AQ this morning.

 

You can read about it at Twister v Natwest.

 

I think we are both close - but I know Cobbetts can drag it out.

 

Good luck!

[Mupster]

Thanks, I have read your thread - I didn't realise that we got sent a copy of Cobbetts AQ. I'll look out for that. In the meantime it's a waiting game......

[Mupster]

Letter received from Cobbetts dated January 17th.

 

Dear Madam

 

Our Client - National Westminster Bank Plc

 

We refer to the above matter.

 

Thank you for your letter 6 January 2007. (The one Deller posted on this thread for me). Upon consideration of the schedule you provided we note that you set out charges incurred on 03 November 2000. Under the Limitation Act 1980, you cannot bring a claim more than 6 years after the date on which the cause of action accrued. You issued your claim on 05 December 2006 (prelim letter dated 1st November 2006 so I included 3rd Nov 2000 quite legitimately I thought) and you are therefore only legally entitled to claim between the periods 05 Dec 2000 to 05 Dec 2006. As such, you cannot claim for the charges incurred before 05 Dec 2000, which from your schedule total £37.40 with interest. Are they right? At least they've LOOKED at the schedule.

 

Our client considers that your challenge to its charges would fail in Court. Our client believes that its charges are fair, reasonable and transparent. It considers that the amounts debited to your account have been applied strictly in accordance with your agreement with it and its published tariff. Our client is also commited to ensuring the transparency of the information that it gives its customers about the operation of its products. As such, our client does not believe that your claim has any prospect of succeeding. (Surely this is all about me claiming not because they charged me in the first place but because of the inproportionately high charges they levied?)

However, as a gesture of goodwill and strictly on the basis that our client rejects any liability to you, it is willing to offer you a goodwill payment of £950. (NatWest branch originally offered me £960 which I declined as per letter in templates - claim is for £1455 plus interest and court costs).

Acceptance by you of this goodwill payment will be in full and final settlement of your claim against our client and strictly on the basis that:-

 

1. you agree not to disclose to any third party the fact of, or any details relating to, this payment (is this a new thing I wonder?)

2. you write to the Court withdrawing your claim.

 

Whilst this letter is written without prejudice save as to costs, in the event that you decline this offer, we will draw this letter to the Court's attention on the basis that we hold the firm view that this offer is entirely reasonable in the circumstances. This offer will remain open for 7 days until Friday 12 January 2007. (So their offer closed before they actually wrote the letter on 17th Jan? Anyone got a time-travelling capsule I can borrow?)

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Cobbetts LLP

 

I would like to reply and have been mulling this over for a couple of days now, I don't want to just send off a letter written without due thought but I would appreciate any suggestions as to any important bits I should say. Also, are they correct in dismissing the first item on my claim? I thought I had done it correctly and sent the prelim letter as per template dated 1st November 2006 so I believed I could include this first charge?

 

I am sure this letter is fairly standard but it does seem to be a bit 'bullying' as if they are telling me my claim stands no chance in court etc etc.

 

Luckily for me I have such great friends on this site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Deller]

Don't worry Mupster I received exactly the same letter, they certainly try it on don't they. You are correct in thinking that your claim starts from the date you sent your preliminary letter. Send this as a response, it did the job for me!!

 

Thank you for your letter dated Xth January 2007.

 

I first contacted your client regarding their unlawful charges on XXth XXXXXX 2006 and therefore disagree with your contention that some of these charges fall outside the scope of the Limitations Act 1980. However I am happy to let the court decide on this matter.

 

Your client should consider themselves fortunate I have not claimed charges going further back, since I believe that any limitation would be overturned under the terms of section 32 of the Limitations Act, due to their continued "concealment" of the facts that their charges are unlawful, or for relief from a "mistake".

 

I respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account, interest and court fees, which together with the daily rate of £0.XX now total £xxxx as of XXth January 2007.

 

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder.

 

I will be willing to withdraw my claim upon receipt of unconditional full settlement of my claim.

 

I am also not prepared to agree to any confidentiality clauses you try to impose, unless of course your client wishes to make an offer of due consideration in addition to the amount of £xxxxx, in order to be afforded this privilege by myself.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

Yours faithfully

 

[Mupster]

Oh Deller - thank you!!!! The letter is excellent and I will send it off to Cobbetts without delay. Your help is really appreciated.....you're like a knight in shining armour

 

Hope all is going well for you x

[OldBear]

Oh Deller - thank you!!!! The letter is excellent and I will send it off to Cobbetts without delay. Your help is really appreciated.....you're like a knight in shining armour

Not a hijack; just wanted to add my thanks to Deller for that letter. I'm planning to claim from when I first give them notice of my claim and I know that Cobblers will try the same trick with me.

 

I've now subscribed to this thread because it contains a lot of good advice.

 

Keep going, Mupster. that last offer looks like you're real close now. I'm with you all the way. :)

 

Bear

[Mupster]

Thanks, Bear, I've been watching your progress as well!

 

Stick with it - I personally feel like I'm running a marathon with this one and appreciate all the encouragement I can get

[OldBear]

Thanks, Bear, I've been watching your progress as well!

Not much of it really yet. I'm currently waiting for the statements, etc back from my initial S.A.R. I sent it with a lovely big CAG label on the front of the envelope.

 

I wonder what they think when they see that CAG label. They probably say, "Ah well, here's another one we're gauranteed to lose". Mind you, they are probably consoled by the fact that Cobblers will annoy us as much as possible on the way to a settlement. :p

[Mupster]

Copy of AQ received this morning from Cobbetts and they had included the following (standard) in the 'other information' section:

 

"Case management direction cannot be proposed until the Claimant serves a reply to the request for further information which was due on 5th January 2007. In light of this, the Defendant may amend its Defence or apply to strike out"

Do I ignore this?? I have already sent the above letter as Deller suggested stating that I was not prepared to complete CPR18. I have also read quite catagorically that only the court may request further information - not Cobbetts.

 

Thanks folks

[Deller]

This is like you say Mupster, pretty standard. You've replied to their cpr18 request as advised and, as you've stated it's the court who can request this information not Cobbetts.

 

The courts are quite aware of these tactics they are trying to use and must be getting pretty fed up with them. It might be worth your while now forwarding a copy of your response to the court, at least then the court will be aware that Cobbetts are still trying this on.

[Mupster]

Thanks, Deller, I was thinking that myself and recall you advising me to keep a copy of the letter in case I should send it to the court.

 

And thank you for keeping an eye on me, it's so good of you to stay on the site and help others, I will endeavour to do the same!!

[Mister Twister]

Hi Mupster,

 

Thanks for the support with my thread - I sure hope Cobbetts plan their cheque run for this Friday!

 

I also have a case against Barclays for my Girlfriend and really need some help - I was hoping you and Deller would check out that thread too. Think I may have just messed up.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/60883-help-struck-out.html

[Mupster]

Hi Twister, I will have a look at it but in the meantime slow down a bit - it is a long (sometimes drawn out) process for most of us and I was thinking more along the lines of the end of Feb not this week!! Hope I didn't get your hopes up.

[Mupster]

The judge was looking at the AQ's on 23 January and I still haven't heard a court date. Any idea how long it usually is before you hear back from the courts? Would they mind if I rang them?

 

Thanks, Mups

[Deller]

It certainly wouldn't hurt to phone the court and see where your claim stands.

[The cobbett slayer]

The judge was looking at the AQ's on 23 January and I still haven't heard a court date. Any idea how long it usually is before you hear back from the courts? Would they mind if I rang them?

 

Thanks, Mups

 

It's what they are paid for!

[Mupster]

Thanks....will call them tomorrow after my assertiveness class !!!

[Mupster]

Well I did phone the court this morning and was told that both AQ's had been received and the lady told me that with regards to setting a court date she was going to 'pick this one out and get it done.'

 

Can't say fairer than that, eh?

 

Mups

[Mupster]

Had a court date through this morning - 26th March.

 

Here's the content of the court letter - I'd be grateful if I could get some confirmation that everything on it is 'standard' and I just need to send off the court bundle on Monday to the court & Cobbetts.

 

 

....with an estimated time of one hour.

The following directions apply to this claim:

1) The Claimant shall (unless she have already done so) within 14 days of service of this order to send to the Defendant and to the Court:

a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and alleged reason (if any) for that charge being made;

b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every such charge has been made;

c) A statement of evidence, if such is to be relied upon, as tending to show that the alleged charges have been made, or that they are irrecoverable as penalties and, if so, identifying the relevant clause(s) persuant to which the charges were applied.

d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

2) The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimes:

a) Persuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not, why not;

c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is to be treated as a breach of the contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such is a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was.

d) Any witness statements.

e) Copies of decided cased and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

3) The original documents shall be brought to the hearing.

4) The court must be informed immediately is the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date.

 

Please help me to do this right, I really don't want to mess it up at this crucial stage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks guys (& gals),

 

Mups x

[Michael Browne]

a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and alleged reason (if any) for that charge being made; Schedule of Charges

 

b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every such charge has been made;Your Statements(just the ones with charges)

 

c) A statement of evidence, if such is to be relied upon, as tending to show that the alleged charges have been made, or that they are irrecoverable as penalties and, if so, identifying the relevant clause(s) persuant to which the charges were applied.See here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionaires-3.html#post482194

 

d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

Basic Court Bundle

 

Examples of Witness Statements / Disclosure by List / Draft Directions / Case Summary

[Mister Twister]

Mupster

 

I have received my court letter and date yesterday but I am waiting before sending the court bundle.

 

Last week I called Cobbetts and they told me they had sent a request to Natwest to return to me the full amount of my claim on the 1st February. I asked for this in writing and they faxed me a letter stating that this had been done and Natwest take about 14 days to send the cheque to cobbetts. Suspicious of what was in the fax I called the Litigation Centre at Natwest and they confirmed that I was going to receive my cheque and it would be within 14-21 days after the request made on the 1st February.

 

It appears that Cobbetts just wait to see if you are going to file the AQ before giving up and it is Natwest who are delaying the cheque.

 

Anyway, I am going to wait on the court bundle as it is a lot of work especially since the decision to return my money has been confirmed to me in writing.

 

Good Luck!

[Mupster]

Twister, what did you say when you rang Cobbetts?

 

Fingers crossed for you!

Mups

[Mupster]

I have found 2 statements of evidence on the site, one of which I should include in my court bundle, but neither of them relates to the defence I received from Cobbetts. I am well confused. Their defence only goes on about me not having provided them with any particulars (which of course I HAVE).

 

Any ideas?????

[Mister Twister]

Twister, what did you say when you rang Cobbetts?

 

 

I asked them to give me an update on the progress of my claim. Really did not expect a straight forward answer but got one!