Carter/Lowell - Claimform - Creation Finance 'debt'***Claim Discontinued***

[GoonerJames]

Good afternoon.

I received a letter from Bryan Carter solicitors stating that they have issued litigation proceedings in the county court against me.

And that i will receive a claim form in the next few days.

 

This debt is something which i would say has been going on now for the best part of 10yrs which i have always contested.

I even have a letter dating back to 2009 when i requested Lowell to provide me with a copy of the CCA,

that they couldn't provide me a copy of this as they were unable to locate a copy of this.

 

Time went on and i received the odd letter from Lowell asking for the money.

Foolishly, maybe i shouldn't have ignored their letters.

But it was like hitting my head against a brick wall when ever asking for a copy of the CCA.

 

out of the blue comes this letter from Bryan Carter stating this claim.

 

Could i possibly have some advice around what i need to do following this claim form?

 

Clearly i wish to contest this in full as i don't even know the full amount of what is owed

and who it is for and if anything was even ever paid.

 

Many thanks

[AndyOrch]

We can only advise if and when you actually get a claim GJ

 

Regards

 

Andy

[renegadeimp]

If carter says they have issued it. its 99% certain they have. Youll know in the next few days.

 

Carters POC's are very vague and he will run off at the first sign of defence. he likes money for nothing and doesnt like working for his fees.

[citizenB]

When did you last make payment to this account.

 

What was the date of any default notice - if one was sent to you.

[GoonerJames]

Hi and thanks for the replies.

I will no doubt get something in the next few days drop through my letterbox.

 

@citizen I honestly couldn't recall if I made a payment to Lowell. I cannot be 100%.

Judging from my notes I scribbled on a letter I did try to negioated with them

but I have always questioned this debt and the amount owing.

Back around 2009 I requested for the CCA but they said they couldn't find it.

 

I was defaulted on tHis back in 2005-2006 and the default dropped off my credit file in 2012.

They (the original creditor) never served me with any default notice.

 

All seems a bit out of the blue why all of a sudden they are taking this action after so many years with no action.

[renegadeimp]

So they havent supplied a CCA, and so carter is chancing his luck hoping to get a judgement by default. Again.

 

lets wait and see if he really is stupid enough to file a court claim against you. Then we can go full pelt at him.

[Bandit127]

All seems a bit out of the blue why all of a sudden they are taking this action after so many years with no action.

There is no honour amongst thieves. You need to get over the history of this.

 

You have a court claim incoming. That re-sets all the history and it will create a new debt if it is successful.

 

When you get the claim the whole thing pivots on the Particulars of Claim and your ability (with help from the experts here) to rebut them.

 

Take the fight to them and don't let them get away with another Judgement by Default.

[GoonerJames]

There is no honour amongst thieves. You need to get over the history of this.

 

You have a court claim incoming. That re-sets all the history and it will create a new debt if it is successful.

 

When you get the claim the whole thing pivots on the Particulars of Claim and your ability (with help from the experts here) to rebut them.

 

Take the fight to them and don't let them get away with another Judgement by Default.

 

Many thanks Bandit.

If i fire back at them to provide me again with a CCA and all other relevant forms and they cant provide these for me,

does this mean they cant issue me a CCJ?

Im more concerned about about a CCJ being put on my credit file.

 

However ive always disputed the amount they claim i owe and

how on earth can i be told i owe said amount when they don't even have the paperwork

which proves and breaks down what i actually owe?

[citizenB]

Many thanks Bandit.

If i fire back at them to provide me again with a CCA and all other relevant forms and they cant provide these for me, does this mean they cant issue me a CCJ? Im more concerned about about a CCJ being put on my credit file.

However ive always disputed the amount they claim i owe and how on earth can i be told i owe said amount when they don't even have the paperwork which proves and breaks down what i actually owe?

 

 

You say this was defaulted back in 2005/6 - if you can establish whether any payments were made after that date or not that would be good. A Subject Access Request to the original creditor should help there. It will cost you £10.00 and they have 40 days to comply, so the sooner you get one in the post, the better that way you will have all the information in time should BC proceed to litigation.

 

In theory, if they are unable to provide a copy of or a truthful reconstruction of the agreement, then they should not be able to obtain a Judgment against you. However, that is only in theory - you would need to submit a really strong defence.

 

If they do obtain a CCJ then that will go on your credit file for 6 years - despite the fact that it has already dropped off.

 

Check your credit files, if payments were made even token payments - they should be seen on the file.

 

A Subject Access Request will only provide payment history to the original creditor up to the sale of the account. So unless Lowell can provide proof that you made a payment to them - I would say this account was statute barred.

[GoonerJames]

Hi Citizen.

I can recall back in 2005 they (original creditor) said one payment had been taken.

But i always disputed the amount they said i owed

this was always in a point where unless they could provide me with a breakdown of how they got to the figure of what i owed,

i wasn't prepared to make any further payments.

 

In that time it has been in the grasps of Lowell and Red Debt Collection Services who i assume are the same outfit.

 

At the start of 2009 i fired off a CCA at Lowell in which they came back eventually and said after liaising with the original creditor,

the credit agreement was no longer available due to length of time since the account was opened (their wording)

They proceeded to say they would be closing the file and would be making no further contact with myself.

 

To this day i don't know if Lowell bought the debt from my original creditor.

I can only assume from reading other threads from numerous sites that they have,

as they seem to buy debts by the bulk load.

 

Would i get much information from my original creditor as the account was over 6yrs old

in theory they shouldn't even hold any information on me any longer should they?

Under Data Protection Laws aren't they meant to dispose of any account information held on customers after 6yrs?

Im sure this is what would come back from this.

 

However the big question is if i made a token payment to Lowell and that i honestly cant recall.

If i did then its hovering around the 6yrs mark for sure.

 

The default dropped off my credit file in 2012 so there is no longer any information im afraid.

 

What im concerned is that they could now place a CCJ onto my file which would be fresh on there for another 6yrs.

[GoonerJames]

Ok so the claim form dropped through my letter box this morning just now

 

 

Name of the Claimant ?

 

Lowell Portfolio Ltd

 

Date of issue

 

Issue Date 03 Oct 2014

 

What is the claim for

 

The claimants claim is for the sum of £2k being monies due from the defendant to the claimant

under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 between the defendant

and Creation Consumer Finance under Account Reference ******

and assigned to the claimant on 04/12/2007

Notice of which has been given to the defendant.

The defendant failed to maintain contractual repayment under the terms of the agreement

and a default notice has been served which has not been complied with.

The claim includes statutory interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum

(a daily rate of 0.44) from the date of assignment of the agreement to date but limited to a maximum of one year amounting to 13.67

 

What is the value of the claim?

 

Amount Claimed £2k Court Fee £105 Solicitors Cost £80 Total Amount £2.2k

 

Is the claim for a current or credit/loan account or mobile phone account?

 

No

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007?

 

No was in late 2004 or 2005

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

 

I believe it would be Lowell the debt purchaser who issued the claim

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

 

I never received any such letter from Lowell or any other company to say that they had been assigned with the debt

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

 

No

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ?

 

No

 

Why did you cease payments:-

 

I disputed the amount total amount that was owed (back in 2005/2006).

At the time i was going through financial difficulty due to marriage break up and disputed the amount owed.

I requested for a break down of how they came to the figure owed but was never provided with this.

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

 

The dispute was never resolved with the original creditor and they just passed it onto Lowell who i assume bought the debt.

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan?

 

Yes i did communicate financial problems to both the original creditor and Lowell and this fell onto deaf ears.

I tried to offer reasonable payments of what i could afford but this was more then likely rejected as they wanted more then i could possibly afford.

As mentioned in earlier posts i did send a CCA request to Lowell in Jan 2009 to which they came back in March 2009

and stated that the original creditor no longer had the agreement so therefore were closing the flle.

 

I have rounded the amounts of what is being claimed as didn't want to put exact figures.

 

If anyone could be so kind to offer me any advice what i need to do now following this,

that would be much appreciated.

 

 

Im a complete novice to this and it all looks a bit daunting with the legal jargon etc.

 

What are my next steps of what i need to do next?

[AndyOrch]

" and assigned to the claimant on 04/12/2007 Notice of which has been given to the defendant."

 

If you have never acknowledged or made payment to Lowell since assignment then their claim is statute barred.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[GoonerJames]

Hi Andy,

 

This is the thing which I cannot be 100% sure on.

 

As mentioned earlier because the default dropped off there is no information now

and I doubt if I went to my bank and asked for various bank statements to see if any payments were made to them,

I'm not sure if I could even obtain that information as that again would be around the 6yr point or possibly beyond.

 

I.E. CCA as I kept that letter from 2009 in which they said they would be closing the file.

 

If I went down the route of Statue Barred would this then be a case of ball in their court to provide evidence that I made payments within 6yrs?

If they did would this jeopardise the case if say I would fire at them for a case of no CCA?

 

Judging by other threads it would be good idea for me to ping off a CCA request to Lowell asap?

[citizenB]

Lowells are a Debt purchaser so yes it looks like they have bought yours.

 

If you are absolutely certain that the debt is statute barred you can do one of two things.

 

Send the SB letter below - send to both Lowell Head office with a copy to Bryan Carter.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387368-Letter-to-be-sent-when-debt-is-Statute-Barred-(update-21.04.2014)

 

Or wait until you receive a claim form and submit a Statute barred defence.

 

According to the Money Laundering and Tax laws - creditors are supposed to keep data until 6/7 years AFTER the financial relationship has ended. This shredding of documents came into being around the time of the Bank charges reclaim frenzy and also the PPI reclaimign. Banks thought that by shredding the statements, then they wouldn't have to pay more that they had records for !!

 

We know for a fact that a lot of banks do indeed keep records for longer than 6 years so it is really the luck of the draw if you can obtain more.

 

If you DID make a token payment to Lowells - was it made under duress ? It seems a bit odd that you would make just one payment and then stop !

[citizenB]

Sorry - I didn't notice that the claim had arrived - no point in sending the SB letter - but IMHO, it looks like this might well be statute barred and that defence will be all you require. It is then for the claimant to provide proof positive of any stray payment.

[GoonerJames]

Sorry - I didn't notice that the claim had arrived - no point in sending the SB letter - but IMHO, it looks like this might well be statute barred and that defence will be all you require. It is then for the claimant to provide proof positive of any stray payment.

 

Thanks Citizen.

I dont know if you caught a question a posted earlier (not to yourself personally) which was around

if i base my defence on Statute Barred and lets say for argument sake that they can provide proof of a payment within a 6yr time frame.

Where does this leave the case?

Am i then liable for to pay the debt or can i say go at them for not providing me with the necessary documents I.E. CCA?

 

Following this claim now, what would be my first steps?

Im a bit of a simpleton with this stuff.

Do i log onto the website for the claim and acknowledge this now intending that i want to defend this all?

 

Again many thanks for all the help

[renegadeimp]

It is unlikely. They have to prove conclusively that there was a payment, then provide all transaction details for it. They cant simply say " oh it was cash". The court would need to see all related documentation.

[Bandit127]

Lowells/BC are likely to say the £1 fee for your CCA request was a payment and therefore resets the SB clock (it wasn't and it doesn't). You need to be ready for it though.

[GoonerJames]

It is unlikely. They have to prove conclusively that there was a payment, then provide all transaction details for it. They cant simply say " oh it was cash". The court would need to see all related documentation.

 

Thats great Renegadeimp. I feel what i more concerned about is me going down that road of the Statute Barred and it then biting me in the bum if they so happen to produce something adequate to prove i did make payment.

[GoonerJames]

Lowells/BC are likely to say the £1 fee for your CCA request was a payment and therefore resets the SB clock (it wasn't and it doesn't). You need to be ready for it though.

 

I wouldn't put it past thus lot Bandit. Although when i would have sent the Postal Order for £1 it would have strictly said for CCA Request only. I did always make sure i wrote on the postal notes that it was for the CCA only.

 

Sorry to be a huge pain in the rear here. But just for some reassurance kind of and so that i can play out any potential events. If i go down this route of Statute Barred and they show documentation for this can the defence also stress how they haven't provided me with the relevant documents? Or is it a case of choosing one or the other?

Is something like that sounding a bit contradictory where i stating Statute Barred but then saying they haven't provided with the relevant documents?

[AndyOrch]

Its a case of one or the other...you cant mix a SB defence with a strict proof defence...one contradicts the other and dilutes the SB defence.

 

So its vital that you do everything in your power to find out if payment was made in any 6 year period.

 

Andy

[GoonerJames]

Its a case of one or the other...you cant mix a SB defence with a strict proof defence...one contradicts the other and dilutes the SB defence.

 

So its vital that you do everything in your power to find out if payment was made in any 6 year period.

 

Andy

 

No worries Andy.

I think my best bet is going to my bank and trying to obtain some bank statements. If there is something on there which points to me making some sort payment to them. Well i will know for sure what route to take.

 

I take it i have 5+14 days to acknowledge the claim which is the 22nd Oct?

Should i fire off any CPR + CCA to the parties in question in the meantime?

[AndyOrch]

No its 21st Oct you dont add you include the date on the claim as day 1...by all means request information from your bank....if you can get a definite answer it makes it so easy rather than being unsure and what to do.

 

Yes you should use CPR/CCA requests irrespective of whether it may be SB or not.

 

Regarsd

 

Andy

[GoonerJames]

Thanks Andy,

 

With regards to the CPR request,

would i first need to acknowledge the claim and show my intentions that i wish to fully defend this claim before sending off a CPR at them?

 

Only ask this because i notice through reading some of the wording that says

"I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim."

[citizenB]

Thanks Andy,

 

With regards to the CPR request, would i first need to acknowledge the claim and show my intentions that i wish to fully defend this claim before sending off a CPR at them?

Only ask this because i notice through reading some of the wording that says "I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim."

 

You need to send out your requests as soon as possible, no need to wait until after you have acknowledged the claim. Solicitors/claimants are notoriously slow at responding to these requests (if they even do respond) and you really need to know before you submit a defence if you are going to have documents to hand or not.

 

By the time they have received and read your CPR request, it is likely you would have acknowledged the claim anyway