Investigating manager old friends with boss

[billathome65]

Give them a time limit for getting the notes and see if they tally up with your OH's copy. You also want to see the original email they have had long enough to get you tha, and contact a solicitor that come with union membership. I would say this is way out of any reasonable process and if I was the rep i'd be looking at chucking this all out. I would also look at raising a grievence against all involved in the investigation due to unacceptable delays, miss-management of process and failure to conclude the issue as now it looks like the company are acting dishonourably as an employer causing stress etc etc. Just my thoughts.

 

Bill

[jodyperry]

Well oh just about to phone solicitor. Has just got the notes which, if it wasn't for the fact that our livelihoods are at stake would be absolutely laughable. The bloke should really of gone into fiction writing as a career! Grrrrrr I am sooo angry I've never seen such blatent victimisation in my life!

[billathome65]

Well oh just about to phone solicitor. Has just got the notes which, if it wasn't for the fact that our livelihoods are at stake would be absolutely laughable. The bloke should really of gone into fiction writing as a career! Grrrrrr I am sooo angry I've never seen such blatent victimisation in my life!

 

So I take it the company notes don't match with the OH copies? Hope the solicitor was productive

 

Bill

[jodyperry]

The solicitors wernt back till Monday but spoke to a paralegal and she seemed to think it's quite clearly discrimination, although it was quite brief. The notes are completely different as is the email which now has a date ( albeit the wrong date as its the day after the event ) it also has another paragraph added to the end of the email, so just have to de stress for the weekend I think x

[billathome65]

Your OH's case seems set, and if the email is also totally not corresponding with lines added then it shows the company have in my opinion have doctored supposed evidence. I say get back onto the solicitor on Monday tell them about everything you've told the guys and girls on here explain all differences in paperwork and go from there.

 

Good luck

[jodyperry]

Thank you I have a feeling that things are going to get a bit more stressful yet but I think just not being in limbo is going to be such a relief. Whatever happens I'll keep updating and am so grateful for all the support I've had from you guys x

[jodyperry]

Just a quick update / question. Oh disciplinary hearing was on 22nd and as yet we still haven't had a decision. I would say this is unreasonable but who says what is reasonable?

[Emmzzi]

A judge says what is reasonable if it comes to it...

 

Discount 2 weeks at xmas if you hear this week that'd be within 2 weeks which seems reasonable to me.

[jodyperry]

Is the two weeks for Christmas a general thing regardless of what days the company operate? Also I think I would be wise to start an appeal letter just in case? The 2 day time constraints they have given in the past have proved really difficult, being a mum to 5 boys is hard enough but the oldest (who is disabled) litterally can mean constant care, and that's before I even get to work lol. I would be really appreciative of any advice regarding this x

[Emmzzi]

there's no harm drafting one, is there?

[jodyperry]

Are there any templates available? Obviously I know the content will be very different for each case but is there a certain way I have to write it? I don't want them being able to pick out a some technicality x

[Emmzzi]

as starter, have a read of potential grouds for appeal here

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/work_w/work_problems_at_work_e/work_disciplinary_meetings_e/appealing_against_disciplinary_action.htm

[jodyperry]

I have drafted a grievance about the way oh case has been investigated to go off today. The only problem is I think it's a bit jumbled and am not sure it's clear what the complaint is. I wonder if someone could give an opinion?

[citizenB]

jodyperry, in response to your S.O.S, I have unapproved your post. Unfortunately you can only edit your own post for up to 24 hours and you have gone past that.

 

If you are going to retype with the personal stuff removed, would you please pop some spacing in It looks like you might have to double carriage return in order to get paragraphs

[jodyperry]

Thank you x

[citizenB]

Thank you x

 

No problem

[jodyperry]

wuick question. Hubby has just been told by a colleauge that there is a meeting set up for Wednesday to go through the notes. He hasn't been informed of this officially yet so presume that they are not intending to give 48 hours notice.

My question is the hearing was not adjourned it ended by the manager saying we were done and refusing to shake oh hand ( with the hump). Would this meeting be part of the formal proceedure?

Just so happens that it comes just after my grievance for a flawed investigation has been returned to me as sent to the wrong department.

[billathome65]

The company have to give reasonable notice in writing of meetings should this not be done your OH is well within his rights to instruct them to re-arrange. The notes from the last meeting should indicate that the meeting was adjourned, however I'm not sure if that has any procedural implications on the case. It would seem that the company's attitude by returning the grievance instead of passing it on to the relevant investigator is a bit sad but hey send it to the relevant department. If the company is being obstructive it all helps build your case further IMO.

 

Bill

[jodyperry]

Well that was a waste of time. They have sent the grievance back stating it is not appropriate to deal with the grievance as the proceedure cannot be used as an alternative or in addition to the diciplinary process which has its own built in appeals. As its directly related to an ongoing conduct investigation he should raise his concerns during this proceedure!

Firstly he has constantly complained, but the investigator has told him and documented in his own minutes that as he had been suspended 2 days before raising an initial grivance , they will not deal with it.

The grievance was about the ongoing discrimination and victimisation at the hands of the investigator, surely they should right this to enable a fair investigation?

Also the only part of the proceedure left is the appeal, so they are already concluding that this is where his complaint should be raised so is going to be dismissed. Which I would imagine they have to tell him!

It says if however, he feels he is being bullied or harassed he can complain with the appropriate form . His complaint about b & h has gone in twice and not been upheld. He is complaining that the whole investigation and accusations are the result of his previous discrimination and victimisation and that the last B&H h investigation was used as an informal way to get information about the day in question, in a bid to manufacture a reason for dismissal. I am seething, I cannot believe the lengths this company will go to!

[jodyperry]

Just to update, oh was dismissed last week. They admitted that the "one act" was disregarded somewhat as "it was clear he was genuinely sick" . This "one act" was the reason he was originally suspended for. The main reason for dismissal was the "act" that was added on just after his fact finding interview the week before the disciplinary hearing. He was invited to a face to face discussion to be told the decision which I find odd as I've spoken to at least 5/6 other ex employees and it was always done by letter. I'm convinced it was just an attempt to get him to lose his temper. He wasn't told if his dismissal was instant or with notice. The union rep said it will be instant, but I don't see why he should just assume. He said he will send his rationale and he would get it by Monday. He still hasn't had anything and it was apparently sent the day of dismissal. Convenient really seeing as he only has 3 days to appeal yet EVERY other letter was sent recorded delivery. I can't believe they have taken his livelihood and they are still trying to screw him. I just don't think they will be happy till he's hanging from the rafters! We knew what the outcome was going to be, yet I don't think it has lessened the blow. He's given them he's loyalty in the job for 17 years, has a squeaky clean conduct record and its amounted to nothing. Oh has not coped very well and has reverted back to square one . In fact more depressed than before I think, and I'm back to clock watching whenever he leaves the house. He was stopped by someone today who asked how work was and it dawned on me that he hasn't actually told anyone. He will speak to people about it but seems ashamed to say he's not got a job . He's devastated and I'm devastated for him, and I don't think either of us had expected that feeling. I'm so worried at the thought of him now having to go through it at tribunal :/

[billathome65]

So sorry to hear the news.

 

Have you contacted a solicitor who deals in employment issues?

 

It's very difficult to advise on how best to proceed as this goes over my experience.

 

What I have seen from your descriptions is that the process appears to have been changed and changed again in order to move towards dismissal, and it is a new one to me that an employer has used one reason to suspend then change half way through to another matter as it seemed a better bet for dismissal.

 

My fingers are crossed for you guys.

[SabreSheep]

try an appeal anyway if not done.

 

3 days is not reasonable to consider the outcome and frame an appeal. What does the handbook say regarding appeal times?

[jodyperry]

He's recieved an email today saying that the letter is still at the main sorting office apologises for this and says they have adjusted his dismissal date to tomorrow. ( even tho the guy has now been demoted to a position which is not authorised to dismiss) . It also now looks like my husband has now lied to the job centre! In his rationale he contradicts himself so many times and even refers to the email date being disputed and that he has now supplied one with a date. This date is actually the day after the event and reads as if it was sent the same day. In fact the things the manager is asking in the email would not of been in question unless it was sent the date of the incident ( hope that makes sense) . He has also included an employee leaflet with the proceedure stating he should not of been suspended until after an investigation. It also says that if 'such incident' arises it should be recorded in writing. This has never been seen. The proceedure does state 3 days for appeal. Any advice writing it? I don't want to miss vital info and then not have them investigated at appeal, but at the same time I don't want to give then all the info I'm relying on as it seems they just magically produce documents like the email.

[billathome65]

You wish to appeal as you feel the process was not followed correctly and that the dismissal may have contravened the companies' own policies and procedures. Also, you feel that case has been prejudiced. 3 days to put in an appeal is a joke though in my opinion.

 

Your husband lying to the Jobcentre I'm sure is irrelevant to the original post so not a matter for discussion here as I am sure you are probably annoyed with him privately over that. If i'm wrong i'm sure I will be corrected henceforth

 

You may wish to start a new thread on that in the appropriate section.

 

I'm sure this is a tough time for you but stick in there things have a tendency to balance out with time.

 

Regards Bill

[jodyperry]

I'm not annoyed with him no lol. He had told them his last day was 30th jan so by once again mucking up the proceedure and amending his last day his work have made it look like that way , but he has informed them now anyhow. I wonder if anyone could read through hubbys appeal? We've tried to include as much as possible without going into the ins and outs but like I said I'm worried hes going to not put something in that he needs to x

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Appeal Against Dismissal

 

I refer to your undated letter received on 9/2/2015 informing me that I have been dismissed from my employment of the grounds of gross misconduct.

 

I am writing within the timeframe allowed to me in Companys conduct code to confirm that I wish to appeal the decision to dismiss me on the following grounds:-

 

1. Failure to follow minimal disciplinary AND dismissal procedures and Acas’ Code of Practice.

2. Failure to follow Companies own policies and procedures.

3. Failure to carry out a full and fair impartial investigation.

4. Failure to conclude various grievances raised both before and during the disciplinary procedure.

5. Failure to consider a previous 16 year clear conduct record.

6. Failure to afford me the right not to be discriminated against.

7. Failure to afford me the right not to be victimised.

 

Had the correct procedure been carried out and a thorough investigation undertaken, I believe not only would I not of been dismissed but it would have been found that I have been a victim of continued discrimination and victimisation.

 

Furthermore, being as Manager has now been demoted to a role unauthorised to carry out dismissals, I believe that not only do I question his capabilities in carrying out these duties, but it seems Company themselves also question his capabilities within this role.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 14 days.

 

I am willing to attend an appeal hearing.