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    • Thank you for that "read me", It's a lot to digest, lots of legal procedure. There was one thing that I was going to mention to you,  but in one of the conversations in that thread it was mentioned that there may be spies on the Forum,  this is something that I've read quite some time ago in a previous thread. What I had in mind was to wait for the thirty days after their reply to my CCA request and then send the unenforceable letter. I was hoping that an absence of signature could be the Silver Bullet but it seems that there are lot of layers to peel on this Onion.  
    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
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Arrows/? Ordinary Cause - old MBNA card DEbt ***GRANTED DECREE OF ABSOLVITOR***


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talks of £12 fees

 

cant be right for 2001

 

they didn't come in till 2006 atleast

 

and its an application form too

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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My point exactly DX

- can you categorically tell me that this cannot constitute a properly executed credit card agreement

- it being an application form only?

 

This is what the SAR to MBNA turned up.

And Y+K have produced this now - despite them being CCAed at the beginning of october.

And as for your point about the t&c - well spotted.

Certainly looks like they've got nothing and are just chancing their arm??

 

Bearing in mind that the initial writ, according to the act of sederunt,

whereby the action relates to a variable agreement, was not served correctly

- the rules stipulate that a copy of the agreement must be attached to the writ

- they merely said they had it and would produce it in court, if needs be.

 

 

The Sheriff, at an interim motions hearing, seemed to think so

- that it was wasting court time to proceed with this kind of action

when they don't have the very piece of paper their whole case rests on?

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not the master of Scottish stuff

 

lets hope P roll pops in.

 

but 100% that is NOT a compliant CCA return.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi StressBall,

I just seen your so call agreement .

 

They did the same to me as well, by attaching a Credit Card Application form,

but with mine , it was a blank form.

 

Even the copy of the form was unable to read, the copies was badly copied.

 

At this stage the Solicitors is trying to scare you.

 

If you do get to the stage where you are given a proof hearing , then you must stand up and opposed the agreement.

 

I did get to the stage where i was given a proof hearing,

but on the day of the hearing, they offered to withdrew the case if i agreed to pay £1.00.

 

This was my first case with the Bank, knowing now, i should have refused to pay the £1.00

but instead to claim for expenses for withdrawing the case on the day, which i could have done.

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Hi,

Just look at my file for MBNA, sorry Stress, the Solicitors was OPTIMAL LEGAL, but all these are tarr with the same brush. I had Yuill and K. with my other credit cards. All my cards was taken out before 2000 , all was sold on to the bottom feeders.

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an application form can be use as the cca as long as the application form has the prescribed terms s6 and S61 or the terms and conditions are sent you on completion with the card.

 

A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

Credit limit

rate of interest

repayments

cancellation rights

 

 

I cannot see all the terms on the application form

 

but the application form says BOS and the t&c's says mbna?

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Please contact a member of the site team if you are offered help off the forum for a a paid or no win no fee service.

 

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Ida - I hadn't noticed that! That's weird! I'll need to look out the old cards and see - but certain it was MBNA!

 

SO, assume that these terms that are on the scan were sent to me, would that make it properly executed CCA? What about DX's comments that they mention £12 fines - when these never came in until 2006 - the agreement is from 2001??

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that's where you gonna have to research.

 

Trawl through the mbna forum and see if you can find another thread with t&c's from 2001 to see any differences.

Please contact a member of the site team if you are offered help off the forum for a a paid or no win no fee service.

 

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One point about the rules stipulating that a copy of the agreement must be attached to the writ:

 

Although this is correct, it also states in the the rules that the sheriff can overlook anything that he/she thinks is an oversight or a mistake and allow the case to proceed.

 

This is exactly what happened to me at my hearing.

 

 

The other side did not attach a copy of the agreement to my wit, so I had the paragraph in the ACT printed out and highlighted for the sheriff

and a copy for the other side too, but the sheriff merely glanced at it and said that she was allowing the case to proceed.

The other side's lawyer chuckled at me and I got the impression that they were all in bed together.

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We have repeatedly found judges not worrying about lack of correct documentation if they believe the money is owed.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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For the past 5 months, I have been sitting in the public gallery (not non-stop!) of small/summary/ordinary claims to get a feel for the procedures and to try to see what advantages I can gain by with my own arguments.

 

What I have learned is that sheriffs here seem to decide cases using their own common sense and what they personally believe the truth to be. I have seen all sorts of incorrect documentation allowed to be used in cases, and I have seen proper legal arguments with precedents and citations from ACTS being poo-pooed by sheriffs.

 

In cases where it is one person against another, the sheriffs listen to both then try to make the parties compromise. If the parties won't compromise, the sheriff will decide for them and there is no telling which way th sheriff will decide.

 

In cases where it is a lay person Vs a lawyer, in almost all of the cases I have watched, the sheriff rules in favour of the lawyer-represented side, regardless of whether they are defending or pursuing. This is not always because the lawyer has the correct legal arguments.

 

Scottish justice is not a system that relies on following the letter of the law and winning a case because there is a technical transgression of the rules. Scottish justice is a system tat relies on the experience and wisdom of the sheriff coming to a just decision having listened to both sides of the argument.

 

The point I am trying to make here is that if you go to court in Scotland, don't rely on the letter of the law to win your case for you.

 

To add to the above: It seems to me, after watching many, and being involved directly in 2 cases recently, that procedure is regarded as much more important than the content of the arguments. If you get the procedure wrong, you'll lose. That's why the lay-person is at a massive disadvantage to the lawyers.

 

My advice to anyone about to represent themselves in court is to make sure you know the procedure of the court perfectly. Most lawyers I've seen don't have great arguments - they rely on their opponent not knowing the procedure.

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  • 2 months later...

cheers SG...

 

I have a lawyer and he's ace... and with legal aid in place, they will capitulate right away...

 

2 cases are sisted at the mo' - neither of them are keen to proceed as they simply cannoy come up with the goods re: paperwork...

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SB,

I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this in the thread so far,

but one thing to check on any CCA your opponents may have sent you,

is that the credit limit is clearly stated on the CCA.

 

 

If this is not stated, then they do not have an enforceable CCA, and therefore, no case against you.

 

Consumer credit agreement regulations 2010 s10.12 states that prescribed terms which must be included in the document are: The amount of credit or credit limit.

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Cheers guys,

one mob hadn't supplied the t&c

- so we badgered for them.

.. Sent us a fax of some, and they referred to the financial conduct authority, which came in at 2013

- the agreement was from 2001...

Now, anyone here point out the flaw? ;-)

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 8 months later...

guys and gals

- wee update on this case

... sorry for the long delay

- got the news a month or two ago,

but wanted to make sure it was in the bag...

 

Many, MANY thanks for all your support and advice...

 

4 words:

 

GRANTED DECREE OF ABSOLVITOR

 

BOOM!

 

£10K - up yours MBNA/ARROW

 

It's also more than a year since I sent the CCA request to Nolans for another debt thru Cabot..

. STILL NOT had a reply to that.

.. case sisted.

.. (indefinitely, it seems)

 

They are getting pumped next...

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its the usual outcome.

 

in total I've done 5 cabot Scottish claims now

all either get sisted or granted DECREE OF ABSOLVITOR

 

funny thing is they are ALL post apr 2007 CCA's too

are they stupid?

puzzles me

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

You know what DX,

they are relying on people to be too scared/too busy/too stupid/all of these

in order to steamroller it thru the court and get a decree.

 

It's like a game of poker, I guess.

 

They are bluffing they are holding a good hand, but in actual fact, have nothing.

 

.. I think a Judge, or Sheriff, should have to see the paperwork/proof of debt

before they grant any action against the defender, as a matter of law, but sadly, that's just not the case...

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Arrows/? Ordinary Cause - old MBNA card DEbt ***GRANTED DECREE OF ABSOLVITOR***
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