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Arrows/? Ordinary Cause - old MBNA card DEbt ***Claim Dismissed***


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If you have a closed thread then you limit the amount of help you get and the idea is to share each others advice and experience, and we don't advise help by PM either.

 

 

Just take out any identifiers and post up what you have.

 

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Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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see attached pdf

 

- can some folk cast their eye over this please

 

- I think this is very far removed from being sufficient,

 

but an expert opinion (or2, or 3) would be gratefully received...

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talks of £12 fees

 

cant be right for 2001

 

they didn't come in till 2006 atleast

 

and its an application form too

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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My point exactly DX

- can you categorically tell me that this cannot constitute a properly executed credit card agreement

- it being an application form only?

 

This is what the SAR to MBNA turned up.

And Y+K have produced this now - despite them being CCAed at the beginning of october.

And as for your point about the t&c - well spotted.

Certainly looks like they've got nothing and are just chancing their arm??

 

Bearing in mind that the initial writ, according to the act of sederunt,

whereby the action relates to a variable agreement, was not served correctly

- the rules stipulate that a copy of the agreement must be attached to the writ

- they merely said they had it and would produce it in court, if needs be.

 

 

The Sheriff, at an interim motions hearing, seemed to think so

- that it was wasting court time to proceed with this kind of action

when they don't have the very piece of paper their whole case rests on?

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not the master of Scottish stuff

 

lets hope P roll pops in.

 

but 100% that is NOT a compliant CCA return.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi StressBall,

I just seen your so call agreement .

 

They did the same to me as well, by attaching a Credit Card Application form,

but with mine , it was a blank form.

 

Even the copy of the form was unable to read, the copies was badly copied.

 

At this stage the Solicitors is trying to scare you.

 

If you do get to the stage where you are given a proof hearing , then you must stand up and opposed the agreement.

 

I did get to the stage where i was given a proof hearing,

but on the day of the hearing, they offered to withdrew the case if i agreed to pay £1.00.

 

This was my first case with the Bank, knowing now, i should have refused to pay the £1.00

but instead to claim for expenses for withdrawing the case on the day, which i could have done.

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Hi,

Just look at my file for MBNA, sorry Stress, the Solicitors was OPTIMAL LEGAL, but all these are tarr with the same brush. I had Yuill and K. with my other credit cards. All my cards was taken out before 2000 , all was sold on to the bottom feeders.

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an application form can be use as the cca as long as the application form has the prescribed terms s6 and S61 or the terms and conditions are sent you on completion with the card.

 

A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

Credit limit

rate of interest

repayments

cancellation rights

 

 

I cannot see all the terms on the application form

 

but the application form says BOS and the t&c's says mbna?

  • Confused 1

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Please contact a member of the site team if you are offered help off the forum for a a paid or no win no fee service.

 

Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running

Click here to donate through PayPal (opens in a new window)

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Ida - I hadn't noticed that! That's weird! I'll need to look out the old cards and see - but certain it was MBNA!

 

SO, assume that these terms that are on the scan were sent to me, would that make it properly executed CCA? What about DX's comments that they mention £12 fines - when these never came in until 2006 - the agreement is from 2001??

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that's where you gonna have to research.

 

Trawl through the mbna forum and see if you can find another thread with t&c's from 2001 to see any differences.

Please contact a member of the site team if you are offered help off the forum for a a paid or no win no fee service.

 

Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running

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One point about the rules stipulating that a copy of the agreement must be attached to the writ:

 

Although this is correct, it also states in the the rules that the sheriff can overlook anything that he/she thinks is an oversight or a mistake and allow the case to proceed.

 

This is exactly what happened to me at my hearing.

 

 

The other side did not attach a copy of the agreement to my wit, so I had the paragraph in the ACT printed out and highlighted for the sheriff

and a copy for the other side too, but the sheriff merely glanced at it and said that she was allowing the case to proceed.

The other side's lawyer chuckled at me and I got the impression that they were all in bed together.

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We have repeatedly found judges not worrying about lack of correct documentation if they believe the money is owed.

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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For the past 5 months, I have been sitting in the public gallery (not non-stop!) of small/summary/ordinary claims to get a feel for the procedures and to try to see what advantages I can gain by with my own arguments.

 

What I have learned is that sheriffs here seem to decide cases using their own common sense and what they personally believe the truth to be. I have seen all sorts of incorrect documentation allowed to be used in cases, and I have seen proper legal arguments with precedents and citations from ACTS being poo-pooed by sheriffs.

 

In cases where it is one person against another, the sheriffs listen to both then try to make the parties compromise. If the parties won't compromise, the sheriff will decide for them and there is no telling which way th sheriff will decide.

 

In cases where it is a lay person Vs a lawyer, in almost all of the cases I have watched, the sheriff rules in favour of the lawyer-represented side, regardless of whether they are defending or pursuing. This is not always because the lawyer has the correct legal arguments.

 

Scottish justice is not a system that relies on following the letter of the law and winning a case because there is a technical transgression of the rules. Scottish justice is a system tat relies on the experience and wisdom of the sheriff coming to a just decision having listened to both sides of the argument.

 

The point I am trying to make here is that if you go to court in Scotland, don't rely on the letter of the law to win your case for you.

 

To add to the above: It seems to me, after watching many, and being involved directly in 2 cases recently, that procedure is regarded as much more important than the content of the arguments. If you get the procedure wrong, you'll lose. That's why the lay-person is at a massive disadvantage to the lawyers.

 

My advice to anyone about to represent themselves in court is to make sure you know the procedure of the court perfectly. Most lawyers I've seen don't have great arguments - they rely on their opponent not knowing the procedure.

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  • 2 months later...

cheers SG...

 

I have a lawyer and he's ace... and with legal aid in place, they will capitulate right away...

 

2 cases are sisted at the mo' - neither of them are keen to proceed as they simply cannoy come up with the goods re: paperwork...

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SB,

I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this in the thread so far,

but one thing to check on any CCA your opponents may have sent you,

is that the credit limit is clearly stated on the CCA.

 

 

If this is not stated, then they do not have an enforceable CCA, and therefore, no case against you.

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Cheers guys,

one mob hadn't supplied the t&c

- so we badgered for them.

.. Sent us a fax of some, and they referred to the financial conduct authority, which came in at 2013

- the agreement was from 2001...

Now, anyone here point out the flaw? ;-)

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 8 months later...

guys and gals

- wee update on this case

... sorry for the long delay

- got the news a month or two ago,

but wanted to make sure it was in the bag...

 

Many, MANY thanks for all your support and advice...

 

4 words:

 

GRANTED DECREE OF ABSOLVITOR

 

BOOM!

 

£10K - up yours MBNA/ARROW

 

It's also more than a year since I sent the CCA request to Nolans for another debt thru Cabot..

. STILL NOT had a reply to that.

.. case sisted.

.. (indefinitely, it seems)

 

They are getting pumped next...

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its the usual outcome.

 

in total I've done 5 cabot Scottish claims now

all either get sisted or granted DECREE OF ABSOLVITOR

 

funny thing is they are ALL post apr 2007 CCA's too

are they stupid?

puzzles me

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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