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    • Hi slick!    On 22 July they said they would refund me £74.07 Theres no DD in place as my membership was a once off payment in November last year.  Hi Dx,    I paid through PayPal last year as a one off payment. 
    • I'm trying to understand it all but I certainly tend to agree with my colleague @dx100uk that it looks as if you may have been taken for a ride. You found an advertisement for a bag on an online sales site. Instead of going through the established procedure of that site, which presumably allows them to recover a commission from the seller you started dealing directly with the seller who is an unknown person to you and of course that allowed the seller to avoid paying the commission. At whose suggestion was it that you went off-site? You then pay by PayPal but instead of logging it with PayPal as a payment for a purchased item, you tell PayPal that it was actually simply a gift or transaction between friends and family. This also allowed the seller to avoid paying a PayPal fee on the money. At whose suggestion was it that you paid in this way?       I don't say that you definitely have been scammed, but it doesn't look very good. This is how it might have happened: after you agreed to take the transaction off-site, so you lost the protection of the established system – and the seller avoided the commission and also avoided the sales site knowing that they had sold their item, you then agreed to pay the seller some money – but not for a purchase – simply as a gift. This has two consequences. Firstly, the seller avoids a PayPal fee and secondly, because PayPal has been misled as to the purpose of the payment, you lose the protection of PayPal if it turns out that you've been scammed or there is some other problem with the transaction. The seller then apparently sent you the parcel and they sent you pictures of a package with your address on it. Separately they sent you a Hermes tracking number – but there is no evidence that the package was actually posted to your address. The seller might simply have taken a picture with your address and sent that to you by way of reassurance – and then changed the label and posted the parcel to themselves but sent you a tracking number which is inaccessible to you and in respect of which you will be prevented from getting any information. All you've seen is a parcel with your address on it. All you've been given is a tracking number which satisfied you for a while until the parcel did not arrive and then when you started to make enquiries, you found that you were unable to access any details referring to the tracking number. Of course the tracking number says that the item was delivered – because maybe it was – but in that case it was delivered to the address on the parcel which might have been the seller's own address – or the address of a friend. I don't want to say that this is definitely how it happened, but it is a plausible scenario. Of course Hermes is an awful lot of parcels – but on the other hand I expect that most of the parcel is that going to Hermes hands are delivered successfully. We only get the bad stories on this forum. I can imagine that Hermes rate of successful deliveries is better than 97% because otherwise people wouldn't simply just hate them, they would go out of business.   We can help you bring a complaint against Hermes if you want. However, on the basis of what you say, the odds are stacked against you but it would be useful to try and find out the address which was associated with tracking number. As far as your apparent willingness to travel hundred and 50 miles to ask for your money back, don't bother. If you did actually go there, are you sure that the seller actually lives at the address that you have been given? What evidence do you have that? Of course if you found that the seller didn't reside at that address then it is slamdunk that you have been scammed. But then what are you going to do? You can try to inform the police but of course it won't get you anywhere. You can inform the sales website – but they will say that you brought it on yourself because you agreed to go off-site. You can inform PayPal – that they will say that because you sent the money which was calculated to avoid their fees, you have lost the protection. If you travelled the 150 miles and found that the seller did reside at that address, do you really think that they are going to hand your money over to you? If they are acting dishonestly then they will simply say that it is nothing to do with them, that they addressed it all correctly and they don't understand what has happened and that this is simply Hermes up to their old tricks. What are you going to do? You simply risk getting into a very nasty argument and depending on how bad it went, you might even find that the police are called and I'm afraid that they would be looking at you – not the seller. Maybe you can answer the questions that I've post above as to who it is who initiated the various ways of doing business.    
    • The legal campaign's going well then. The recount in Wisconsin gave Trump more votes but Biden even more, at a cost of $3m. And a donor to the organisation bringing the failed cases is suing to get his $2.5m back.   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/28/joe-biden-gains-votes-in-wisconsin-county-after-trump-ordered-recount
    • Yes Unicorn feed tax again, can't sue the keeper for more than the Original Charge, so any additional Debt Collection fees aka the £60 they add is abuse,iof process as per HHJ Harvey at Lewes county Court What lookedinfroinfo is indicating is that the main signage on entry and dotted around is merely an " Invitation to Treat", not the offer, the Offer and Acceptance occurs at the payment machine, so wording there is key.
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Arrows/? Ordinary Cause - old MBNA card DEbt ***Claim Dismissed***


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If you have a closed thread then you limit the amount of help you get and the idea is to share each others advice and experience, and we don't advise help by PM either.

 

 

Just take out any identifiers and post up what you have.

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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see attached pdf

 

- can some folk cast their eye over this please

 

- I think this is very far removed from being sufficient,

 

but an expert opinion (or2, or 3) would be gratefully received...

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talks of £12 fees

 

cant be right for 2001

 

they didn't come in till 2006 atleast

 

and its an application form too

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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My point exactly DX

- can you categorically tell me that this cannot constitute a properly executed credit card agreement

- it being an application form only?

 

This is what the SAR to MBNA turned up.

And Y+K have produced this now - despite them being CCAed at the beginning of october.

And as for your point about the t&c - well spotted.

Certainly looks like they've got nothing and are just chancing their arm??

 

Bearing in mind that the initial writ, according to the act of sederunt,

whereby the action relates to a variable agreement, was not served correctly

- the rules stipulate that a copy of the agreement must be attached to the writ

- they merely said they had it and would produce it in court, if needs be.

 

 

The Sheriff, at an interim motions hearing, seemed to think so

- that it was wasting court time to proceed with this kind of action

when they don't have the very piece of paper their whole case rests on?

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not the master of Scottish stuff

 

lets hope P roll pops in.

 

but 100% that is NOT a compliant CCA return.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi StressBall,

I just seen your so call agreement .

 

They did the same to me as well, by attaching a Credit Card Application form,

but with mine , it was a blank form.

 

Even the copy of the form was unable to read, the copies was badly copied.

 

At this stage the Solicitors is trying to scare you.

 

If you do get to the stage where you are given a proof hearing , then you must stand up and opposed the agreement.

 

I did get to the stage where i was given a proof hearing,

but on the day of the hearing, they offered to withdrew the case if i agreed to pay £1.00.

 

This was my first case with the Bank, knowing now, i should have refused to pay the £1.00

but instead to claim for expenses for withdrawing the case on the day, which i could have done.

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Hi,

Just look at my file for MBNA, sorry Stress, the Solicitors was OPTIMAL LEGAL, but all these are tarr with the same brush. I had Yuill and K. with my other credit cards. All my cards was taken out before 2000 , all was sold on to the bottom feeders.

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an application form can be use as the cca as long as the application form has the prescribed terms s6 and S61 or the terms and conditions are sent you on completion with the card.

 

A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

Credit limit

rate of interest

repayments

cancellation rights

 

 

I cannot see all the terms on the application form

 

but the application form says BOS and the t&c's says mbna?

  • Confused 1

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Please contact a member of the site team if you are offered help off the forum for a a paid or no win no fee service.

 

Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running

Click here to donate through PayPal (opens in a new window)

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Ida - I hadn't noticed that! That's weird! I'll need to look out the old cards and see - but certain it was MBNA!

 

SO, assume that these terms that are on the scan were sent to me, would that make it properly executed CCA? What about DX's comments that they mention £12 fines - when these never came in until 2006 - the agreement is from 2001??

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that's where you gonna have to research.

 

Trawl through the mbna forum and see if you can find another thread with t&c's from 2001 to see any differences.

Please contact a member of the site team if you are offered help off the forum for a a paid or no win no fee service.

 

Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running

Click here to donate through PayPal (opens in a new window)

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One point about the rules stipulating that a copy of the agreement must be attached to the writ:

 

Although this is correct, it also states in the the rules that the sheriff can overlook anything that he/she thinks is an oversight or a mistake and allow the case to proceed.

 

This is exactly what happened to me at my hearing.

 

 

The other side did not attach a copy of the agreement to my wit, so I had the paragraph in the ACT printed out and highlighted for the sheriff

and a copy for the other side too, but the sheriff merely glanced at it and said that she was allowing the case to proceed.

The other side's lawyer chuckled at me and I got the impression that they were all in bed together.

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We have repeatedly found judges not worrying about lack of correct documentation if they believe the money is owed.

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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For the past 5 months, I have been sitting in the public gallery (not non-stop!) of small/summary/ordinary claims to get a feel for the procedures and to try to see what advantages I can gain by with my own arguments.

 

What I have learned is that sheriffs here seem to decide cases using their own common sense and what they personally believe the truth to be. I have seen all sorts of incorrect documentation allowed to be used in cases, and I have seen proper legal arguments with precedents and citations from ACTS being poo-pooed by sheriffs.

 

In cases where it is one person against another, the sheriffs listen to both then try to make the parties compromise. If the parties won't compromise, the sheriff will decide for them and there is no telling which way th sheriff will decide.

 

In cases where it is a lay person Vs a lawyer, in almost all of the cases I have watched, the sheriff rules in favour of the lawyer-represented side, regardless of whether they are defending or pursuing. This is not always because the lawyer has the correct legal arguments.

 

Scottish justice is not a system that relies on following the letter of the law and winning a case because there is a technical transgression of the rules. Scottish justice is a system tat relies on the experience and wisdom of the sheriff coming to a just decision having listened to both sides of the argument.

 

The point I am trying to make here is that if you go to court in Scotland, don't rely on the letter of the law to win your case for you.

 

To add to the above: It seems to me, after watching many, and being involved directly in 2 cases recently, that procedure is regarded as much more important than the content of the arguments. If you get the procedure wrong, you'll lose. That's why the lay-person is at a massive disadvantage to the lawyers.

 

My advice to anyone about to represent themselves in court is to make sure you know the procedure of the court perfectly. Most lawyers I've seen don't have great arguments - they rely on their opponent not knowing the procedure.

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  • 2 months later...

cheers SG...

 

I have a lawyer and he's ace... and with legal aid in place, they will capitulate right away...

 

2 cases are sisted at the mo' - neither of them are keen to proceed as they simply cannoy come up with the goods re: paperwork...

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SB,

I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this in the thread so far,

but one thing to check on any CCA your opponents may have sent you,

is that the credit limit is clearly stated on the CCA.

 

 

If this is not stated, then they do not have an enforceable CCA, and therefore, no case against you.

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Cheers guys,

one mob hadn't supplied the t&c

- so we badgered for them.

.. Sent us a fax of some, and they referred to the financial conduct authority, which came in at 2013

- the agreement was from 2001...

Now, anyone here point out the flaw? ;-)

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 8 months later...

guys and gals

- wee update on this case

... sorry for the long delay

- got the news a month or two ago,

but wanted to make sure it was in the bag...

 

Many, MANY thanks for all your support and advice...

 

4 words:

 

GRANTED DECREE OF ABSOLVITOR

 

BOOM!

 

£10K - up yours MBNA/ARROW

 

It's also more than a year since I sent the CCA request to Nolans for another debt thru Cabot..

. STILL NOT had a reply to that.

.. case sisted.

.. (indefinitely, it seems)

 

They are getting pumped next...

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its the usual outcome.

 

in total I've done 5 cabot Scottish claims now

all either get sisted or granted DECREE OF ABSOLVITOR

 

funny thing is they are ALL post apr 2007 CCA's too

are they stupid?

puzzles me

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Arrows/? Ordinary Cause - old MBNA card DEbt ***Claim Dismissed***
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