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Arrows/? Ordinary Cause - old MBNA card DEbt ***Claim Dismissed***


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hi guys - please help with this one... I am based in Scotland...

 

I had a credit card, 2 actually, with MBNA.

 

Stopped paying them, and others, about 4 years ago

- as I'd got involved with a company called Credit Issues,

who deemed that all of my credit cards were unenforceable, and I didn't need to pay them.

 

I knew it was going to screw up my credit rating, but wasn't too bothered about that

- to be safe, I'd say Jan 2016 will actually see everything totally statute barred,

so this gives you some idea of timescale, but I've not paid anything,

nor had any contact with any DCA in the interim.

 

One card in particular, MBNA = £9000 outstanding approx. was passed between various DCA

and eventually ended up with ARROW GLOBAL, relatively recently.

 

They wrote to me last week, although the envelope it came in was branded YUILL AND KYLE

- stating they had passed the debt to YUILL AND KYLE, who would be handling this debt for them.

SO why did it come in the YUILL AND KYLE envelope??

 

it was ignored, as per usual.

However, YUILL AND KYLE have written today saying they will issue court papers

(unsure of exact wording, as I do not have it to hand) if I do not pay within 5 days.

 

Now, I've had LOADS of these letters, and ignore them, as they wording is 'MAY take legal action...'

- but this time they say the will take legal action

- and reading up on them, I see they're a right bunch, who try every trick in the book

- including the mistiming of letters and so on.

 

I've not acknowledged this debt in 4 years,

I am sure I have been offered discounts on the debt from previous DCA,

which always suggests to me the debt is a stinker and they cannot enforce it,

so they're trying to get a few quid, which is better than nothing.

Am I correct in this assumption?

 

If this is correct, I'm taking the chance that they are just trying their hand in the strongest way possible.

And I will NOT contact them, and will wait to see what they do next.

 

So, question is this,

if they do take the next step, what steps, in the right order, do I need to take next?

I hear about CCA, prove it letters, SAR and so on,

but is there a specific order to these, and to whom should they be addressed?

MBNA, Arrow, YUILL AND KYLE...??

And does sending a CCA/prove it request stop any impending legal proceedings, for the time being?

 

And also, does sending a SAR, CCA etc admit any liability for the debt whatsoever...?

I'd dearly love to sit this out and for it to go away once it becomes statute barred,

and drop off my credit file, so I can start rebuilding my credit rating again.

 

Any help VERY MUCH gratefully received - many, many thanks in advance.

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Hi S B

.

I am usually an advocate of sitting it out as long as possible. Engaging with DCAs normally involves lots of hassle and only draws attention to oneself - and one's apprehensiveness. However, in your situation, I sense it's time to don your armour.

.

Arrow use DCAs to chase when they're just growling. They turn to solicitors - which costs them more - when that has failed and / or S B is on the horizon. Sometimes they will recall if a first has failed and try a second, but usually they go for the kill at the first. You have no time to waste.

.

[btw Many on here swear that a "will" threat always means "will". That is not so, but leave it aside, it's irrelevant here.]

.

The letter you received is Sparrow Growball's pre-action template, with its famous naa naa about helping you to cough up "in a way which works for you". :) It is always sent by their agent. You don't have the luxury of time to challenge that procedure at this juncture so leave it be and concentrate on the essentials.

.

You must immediately send MBNA an SAR and Yuks and Kill a CCA request - details of procedure littered throughout the forum. Make sure to specify in your SAR request that you want *all* data from your *first contact* ,

otherwise they will likely not go back further than 6 years. In many cases, when challenged, it has been proven that they can.

.

If the CCA reaches the solicitor before they launch CCJ action, they are unable effectively to continue until they have complied. If your card was taken out prior to 2007 they have to produce a copy of the original, not a reconstruction, and it must be compliant in order to be enforced in court. Furthermore, MBNA have to find it . . . which often they can't. There are also possible issues surrounding the default notice, but no need to go into that at this stage.

.

Requests for information eg CCA and SAR do not stop the S B clock. Nevertheless you should head your CCA letter "This is not an acknowledgment of any debt".

.

Yuks Kill will reply that they don't envisage Sparrow Growballs - who are now the de facto creditor - as the creditor yet still agree to comply. Get used to the perverse world of debt collection litigation. It is redolent with deceit and intimidation. Don't take at face value anything they say.

.

You may also, for peace of mind,

wish to ring MBNA for a faster answer to the question of the date of your last payment: SARs can take far beyond 40 days.

.

Unfortunately I am most probably unable to offer further detailed assistance at this stage, as I am in ill health. I have written now only because your post had not been answered. Sorry peeps missed you. Others will - I HOPE ! - help you on your way.

.

But please do not procrastinate unless you want a court claim landing on your doormat. And if one does, do not under any circumstances ignore it.

.

Best wishes

Oleg

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cheers Oleg - most appreciated.

 

quick question(s) for ANYONE who can do a wee bit hand holding at this stage, so I don't completly faff this up...?????

 

1...The CCA and SAR templates on here - is there any that should be avoided, or are all on the button?

 

2...secondly, you definitely advocate doing this now, not wait and see if 'will' means 'WILL'...?

 

Cheers again Oleg. And take care - look after yourself.

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The comment about "will" referred to DCA / solicitor threats in general. I thought I had made abundantly clear my view that in your case you should act, and act today. It isn't worth the risk to delay. There is a strong chance that you will either reach S B without CCA being supplied or be able to defend successfully if you follow advice from this site.

 

Best of luck.

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Y&K do issue Scottish proceedings quite frequently.

[its not a CCJ]

 

however if you read here, 9/10 its just a threat

and can be easily dealt with if they do.

 

an SAR to MBNA might be in order.

 

PERS I wold not send Y&K a CCA request at this stage.

just invites letter tennis esp if you have TOTALLY ignore everyone to date.

 

did you take this out in England

or was this taken out whilst already domiciled in Scotland?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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DX - THANKS FOR THE INPUT... MASSIVE THANKS TO OLEG TOO...

 

Oleg had said send the CCA to Y&K right away.

As this has to be with them before they issue any court proceedings.

 

However, due to workload at work, it's now past 5pm on a Friday afternoon,

and if I send these Special delivery tomorrow (Saturday)

I don't think they'll get them until Tuesday

possibly Monday, which might be fine.

 

By the way - I've always been domiciled in Scotland, so was taken out whilst living here.

 

Question I have is this then:

IF Y&K issue proceedings, presumably there's a time period to respond? (sorry to be so ignorant)

 

In which case, if I send them a CCA AFTER they have issued proceedings,

and within any allocated time period,

must they stop the proceedings until they comply with the CCA?

Or is it game over by then, and I'm taking a gamble by not CCAing them now?

 

AND DOES IT DEFO GO TO Y&K AND NOT ARROW GLOBAL?

 

No disrespect to Oleg, in any way, but my gut feeling is this won't go further, but I could be wrong! :-)

 

But also, I agree with you, DX, in that I feel this will then just start a letter pingpong

and I'm self employed, work mental hours, and really don't want to add to the workload of having to write letters back and forth etc...

 

ALSO - I really don't want to sign the letter, digitally, or otherwise.

Am I ok just to print the name?

'm actually tempted to sign it differently and just see if they try something on with a reconstituted

 

Any input from ANYONE on this TONIGHT is most appreciated,

as if I NEED to write to them tomorrow, by Special Delivery,

then I will - letter is already written, just need to send, if needs be...

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Of course it's up to you whether to CCA or not.

I certainly didn't mean you to start exchanging correspondence.

I'm dead anti that and it amazes me how much ppl get drawn into it.

Just send off the request then stop.

That protects against court action unless / until they comply.

 

Or don't send off if, as you say, you think it will go nowhere. d x says 90% [a favourite random figure on this forum] don't.

I disagree. 90% or more of DCA attacks on behalf of Arrow lead nowhere but their tactic changes

when the recipient has consistently ignored and S B is now looming.

 

Ultimately the choice is yours.

But to answer your question,

whilst CCA puts a spanner in the works if submitted before proceedings commence,

if it's sent after the issue of court action, the statute bar clock stops.

After the proceedings are issued you have 33 days to submit a defence.

Look around the forum at others, esp Arrow cases

 

CCA does go to solicitor, yes. Do vary your sig if wish, eg an extra flurry.

 

If you want to take the risk, ignore. It's a gamble.

However, it wouldn't mean game over by any means.

Many times a simple defence asking them for strict proof causes them to cave in .

. . even at the courthouse door.

 

Oh and just one final reminder. Do not engage in letter exchange with Y K.

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so when was your last payment please

 

your credit file should tell you this

and when was this card taken out.

 

Remember this is Scotland and a Scottish 'claim'

if any are ever sent .

 

so 5yrs from lat payment its SB'd.

 

if you do send a CCA request

you simply computer print your name

and inc a blank £1PO

and use free proof of posting from the PO counter

 

IMHO the SAR is the more important here

 

you NEED the statements.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Oleg - you're a star thanks. Keep well...

 

DX - my guess is about 4 years ago was last payment.

I was banking on January, 2016 as being totally statute barred from this,

and a good few other, sizeable debts.

 

I was royally shat on by a friend in business, and had to borrow on cards to survive this.

Never missed a payment, for any of them, but they all kept bumping up interest

- some to as much as 40% APR

- and my credit rating at that time was mega - so no grounds for it, other than greed.

 

So, when Credit Issues brought up the possibility of stopping payment, and telling them to frack off, I jumped at it!

 

Think I'll send the CCA, but not acknowledging the debt. and also SAR MBNA.

 

Y&K give 5 days from date of letter - 1 of which was the letter in transit, and 2 of which are the weekend! I'm sure they do this on purpose, so if they start something within 5 days, I'll be out of time - but will be able to argue that they were deliberately being, shall we say, ******s!

 

Cheers all - most appreciated. Will keep you up to date on this - and be back for more info, should any of the others start it!

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  • 2 weeks later...

AARRGH! Guys - wee bit more input into this now please?

 

I have a special delivery POD, 30 sept, for Y+K for a CCA request.

 

But came home from work tonight (9 oct) and the buggers have written, completely ignoring that request, with these opening lines:

 

'As you are aware, we act for the above named who instruct us you owe the sum of £xxxxx

 

You have previously received notice that our client obtained the debt by way of assignment from MBNA under account number xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx.

 

Please get in touch with us to discuss the type of repayment plan best suited to your needs.

If we do not hear from you within seven days we will commence Sheriff Court proceedings in the sum of...'

 

This, in my very humble opinion, is them just trying it on.

I, genuinely, feel that they have nothing to go on,

and are just threatening as much as they can.

 

The 12+2 deadline will come into effect before their given threat date,

so will they not be breaking the law if they do go ahead with their threats...??

 

They go on to outline the various ways they can get money form me, by giving a brief synopsis of earnings arrest, and so on.

 

What do you guys think?

 

My gut feeling is to ignore this bunch.

The whole letter is geared towards me making contact with them by any, and all, means possible.

 

So, should I ignore this, or send them a copy of the POD for the initial CCA request, reminding them of their obligations?

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can you confirm the letter actually doesn't say WILL any where

but may/if/but/instructed etc

 

read it carefully

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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DX - I don't have the letter here with me, but it did say 'will', but then they say get in touch to work out a plan, blah blah.

And they seem to want to point out the assignment of the debt to arrow every time,

and then say this will affect your credit rating,

then list all the different methods of how they can arrest your income if they get a court order etc...

 

To me, it just seems like an extra scary threatening letter.

They haven't complied with my CCA request, thus far,

and made no reference to my previous correspondence whatsoever.

This letter seems geared up to scare the reader into contacting them.

 

I can scan the letter and let you see it, if you want...?

 

But, my question is,

 

 

do I ignore this, as they are only 4 days away from the CCA request deadline,

or do I send a letter with a copy of the POD signature for my initial CCA request...?

 

 

I really don't want to have to keep sending letters back and forward.

 

What are your thoughts?

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scan it up

 

sit on your hands

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Stress

 

Sorry I've not been able to comment earlier.

 

Things are going to plan. Failure to provide a CCA is useful to your case. Don't for heaven's sake write to them about it. They're well aware that they are most unlikely to obtain judgment against you without it.

 

Bear in mind Arrow's modus operandi. If you have repeatedly failed to engage and S B is looming they use a solicitor, even if they think you maybe don't have assets. The solicitor pays the court fees and, in return for this significant risk, gets a generous slice of the cake if successful.

 

This is why we frequently see a solicitor returning the account to Arrow with S B almost arrived and Arrow make a last-ditch attempt with another solicitor.

 

What Y K decide in your case we'll soon see. They have sent you a standard template letter. It aims to scare but also serves as a letter before action.

 

Whilst a CCA request deters against the issue of proceedings it's not a guarantee. It may on ve face of it appear futile to issue a claim without one but it's not. For the relatively small cost of a claim, they can stop the S B clock and buy time to find it. Whether that will happen is another matter. That's their problem. Many many older MBNA agreements can't be found and others may not be compliant.

 

Keep your cool.

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  • 2 weeks later...

COURT CITATION PAPERS ARRIVED BY RECORDED DELIVERY THIS MORNING...

 

It's been just over 3 weeks since the SAR to MBNA and the CCA to Y+K were signed for as delivered. Had nothing from either of them.

 

What should I be doing here?

I'm out of my depth methinks!

 

Not sure how different this may be from English law

, but do remember I am from Scotland, SO it's Scottish law..

 

. There are a number of 'forms' 03, 05, 07 etc...

But one, not numbered as such (Application for a time to pay direction) , has four parts A-D.

A is completed by them.

B is confusing - not sure applies to me, if I am defending?

C is asking for details of income and outgoings.

 

Again, I don't think I should complete?

And D is a 'multiple choice'! - of which one is 'to recall the above arrestment'.

 

I need a wee bit of hand holding here, obviously!

I really cannot afford a solicitor - but do I need to consult with one?

Or can someone on here help with this?

 

DX = see below - court papers arrived today - 25.10.14 - help!

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bit stupid if they've no CCA.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Well, that's kinda what I think,

it's all geared to forcing your hand and hoping you will give in yourself

and agree to some payment plan.

I'm not going to do that.

I'm going to submit to recall the arrestment,

but it costs £87 to lodge this at the court - geez.

 

I don't think it'll go to court,

as they've nothing to prove the debt?

 

Am I right?

 

I NEED some help in completing these forms though

- any (Scottish) legal bods on here help??

 

DX? Oleg?

 

you pitch in or ask someone else to take a look at this with me please?

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you'll get help

 

legal is not my bag

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Him Stress

But don't! - don't stress.

 

Am not able to respond atm but will do so during night. Have hardly been online. Unwell, as before. :(

 

Meanwhile, take it easy; no great cause for concern. Ok?

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What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down.

 

What type of action? (Small/Summary/Ordinary)

 

Is the claim for a current or credit/loan account or mobile phone account?

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007?

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ?

 

Why did you cease payments:-

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt managementlink3.gif plan?

 

What you need to do now.

 

Copy and past the above on your own thread with your own answers attached.

 

Also did they attach a copy of the credit agreement with the court papers?

Please contact a member of the site team if you are offered help off the forum for a a paid or no win no fee service.

 

Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running

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Knowing the Arrow / solicitor collaborative business model, the issuing of court papers is what I feared. Your CCA request did not deter them because the estimated S B date is so near. They have stopped the clock.

 

Just remember that issuing papers is a relatively minor expense, well worth gambling for a chance to grab nearly £10K. Proceeding with court is a more expensive game and their decision may now hinge on whether they can come up with your CCA.

 

You said at the start that it had been deemed unenforceable. Although you didn't elaborate, it is a fair guess that this may be the case now too.

 

So to answer your question, no you don't need to engage a solicitor of your own: you will get help on here. Having said that,

you can't be lax about deadlines, as you were when you had to send off your CCA request.

 

Ida has kindly posted up the questionnaire for your to complete. The sooner you do so, the better. I am not all too clued up on the procedures in Scotland so I will leave that to your compatriots.

 

One other thing you should do is search for comparable cases. Acquaint yourself with how Y K operate and with how Scots courts have handled MBNA cases with solicitors in general, not only Y K.

 

You will need to see how others have defended and think in detail about your own defence. However, you can't submit it until 3 or 4 days before the deadline as you want to see whether you receive your CCA first.

 

And most important of all, stay calm, keep cool.

 

Oleg

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Cheers Oleg,

 

but may I ask for clarification about the stopping of the statute barred clock?

Is that really what's happening here?

How so?

The deadline for this is a year away, so that sucks...

 

I've not acknowledged the debt,

nor entered into any correspondence regarding this.

 

What happens with this statute barred status now?

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Yes, unfortunately. Issue of court claim stops clock.

 

Recommences only if claim struck out.

 

That's why Arrow go for the jugular when ppl have kept silent.

 

They hope to gain judgment by default due to debtor not answering.

 

At the very least they will have stopped the clock.

 

Yes it sucks, like life itself.

 

Just pity those of us south of the border who endure over 5 years before the Opposition come and stick a pin in our balloon.

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