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PCN-Parked in resident parking not clearly display permit!


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Hi,

 

We have a residential parking area which is policed by wardens quite regularly.

 

 

I have had a valid permit since the inception of this policy. I

 

 

ndeed we were 1 of the original members of the meeting when this was being planned and took part in all discussions when decisions were being made.

 

Monday morning a week ago, a neighbour knocked drawing our attention to the fact that my car had a PCN on windscreen, for 'not clearly displaying said permit'.

 

As mentioned,

current permit is valid and always has been.

 

 

What had happened is on Sunday afternoon, day before PCN served (Monday morning, 15/09/14) ,

 

 

I was cleaning the dashboard of car. I had inadvertently left a cloth partially covering the permit in force.

 

 

However, due to my disabilitiesdue to my disabilities, I have to take regular breaks from such tasks, as and when I am able to do.

 

 

Indeed, had the warden serving PCN looked into the vehicle, he would have noticed additional cloths and sprays,

in the footwell, behind the car seats and possibly on passenger seat.

 

 

This is how I had to leave the car on the afternoon of Sunday, 14/09/14.

 

Such was my exhaustion from carrying out what little of the task at hand,

I had by that time completed, that I found myself unable to complete the current chore,

leaving the car in the state in which it was found, at the time of PCN being served, 08.47 15/09/14,

with the intention of completing the task on the day PCN served.

 

I am asking for advice as to how to proceed in challenging the PCN bearing the above in mind and how I should word such challenge.

 

Also, am I correct in thinking somewhere along the line, that if PCN has been issued on the above basis

but not for the reason as permit being hidden due to date of expiry,

that DoT have issued guidelines to local authorities for cases such as this,

advising that if permit in force,

then PCN should be withdrawn if and when challenged?

 

Many thanks for reading and all advice gratefully received.

 

francis.

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You'll need to appeal it of course, and you just need to explain what happened, as you did here. Just tell them what you told us. The only thing I would add is maybe give them some more details of your medical condition so they understand, and if possible a copy of the permit. Do you also have a blue badge? If so, copies of that as well. It all helps.

 

I don't think the Department for Transport have issued such guidelines, but it would be reasonable for them to cancel it under the circumstances.

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can we check this IS a PENALTY charge Notice?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Apologies for not replying earlier-I have not been receiving notification of responses to my email account!

 

 

However, Now I have decided to check for any replies and received the above, many thanks.

 

 

I will be appealing and have a couple of draft emails to fire off. What I was not wanting to do, was to give too much information, in which it appear that I maybe admitting such allegation and my email being treated as mitigation!

 

 

If I am advised further on here to merely let them know that there is/was a valid permit in force, and to leave it at that to see if they will cancel on that basis, all fair and well.

 

 

If, as post 2 suggests, tell them the whole reason as done in my 1st post, with added details of disabilities and copy of permit and blue badge.

 

 

I am more interested at this moment in the last reply from dx100 asking 'can we check this IS a PENALTY charge notice'.

 

 

DX100 can you please expand on this point as I do not yet follow your reasoning for asking? It certainly seems to be a PCN as this is titled. The allegation gives 'code 12' from memory (do not have PCN in front of me at moment) but as I cannot post pic of document, I will attempt to describe as best as poss later this afternoon.

 

 

Absolutely thanks for replies to date, guys. Cheers.

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I am just checking this IS a council ticket not a private speculative invoice

 

 

seems like it is given code 12 being used

 

 

so it does say [exactly]

 

 

PENALTY charge notice'.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Many thanks for speedy response DX100. As soon as I am able I will post exactly what it says.

 

I have seen the warden who patrols our little estate and resident parking, tootling about on his scooter.

 

 

He certainly knows my car and that it has a blue badge attached to reg.

 

 

In fact, we and a few other neighbours were part of the original group,

 

 

who discussed the possibility of res parking for our lil' estate and made up part of 'forum' for deciding when it should be in force,

 

 

how many visitor/carer passes per household should be allocated etc.

 

Just peeved off to have received, what I think, is definitely a PCN!

 

 

So, will post later and look forward to your addition.

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It is important to establish that this is a proper PCN, as advised above.

 

 

It sounds like it is but best to be sure.

 

 

It will say the exact words Penalty Charge Notice at the top,

and be issued by or on behalf of the council.

 

In terms of appealing,

there is no concept of admitting the allegation.

 

 

So far as they are concerned, you are already guilty!

 

 

It is up to you to convince them to cancel it, and so the more factual info you can give them,

explaining the circumstances and showing them the permit etc, the better.

 

 

If you withhold things it will only weaken your side of the argument.

 

 

Better to give them all they need and it makes you appear much more honest than if you withhold things,

or say you have permits without offering them a chance to see.

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Hi again, as promised:

 

'Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) XXXXXX Council.

 

PCN Number: XXXXXXXXXX

 

Served on 15/09/2014

 

By Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) XXXXX

 

Who had reason to believe that the following contravention had occurred and that a penalty charge is now payable

 

Code 12 Parked in a residents or shared useparking place or zone without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher ordisplay ticket issued for that

 

Date of contravention 15/09/2014 Time08.27'

 

(The rest of the ticket then gives details of location, my car, and explains the charge,how much and if paid within 14 days then halved etc.)

 

So, bearing the above in mind

I would have to accept this is a genuine PCN and proceed on the basis of my 1st post with additional details of my disabilities.

 

 

The only other matter that I can possibly see a problem with is that I am unable to attach copy 'permit' and 'blue badge'.

 

 

However, if I give them written authority,

contained within the email for them to make own enquiries

(which they should be able to do as it is this local authority that issued permit and blue badge in the 1st instance)

to confirm that I do possess valid permit and of course blue badge,

 

 

do you think this would suffice?

 

As previous, many thanks for your quick and immediate responses in assisting.

francis.

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No, I wouldn't advise you give them permission to go looking. They won't be prepared to gather the evidence themselves. Can you obtain a photocopy and post your appeal? If not, do you have a scanner? You really would be better off presenting it all to them yourself.

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neighbour relation with a scanner?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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OK, that's fine. Won't give authority.

 

Am I correct in thinking that, if within the next 48 hours, I respond letting them know I am challenging and give reasons why in that email, that I also let them know I shall be forwarding copies of permit and blue badge in post, in due course, that this would appease them?

 

I really want to get the email off within the 14 days of being served, in the case of appeal not being allowed and if any penalty still demanded to be paid, should remain at the 50% level.

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Normally they will hold the discount provided you appeal within 28 days, although the law does say 14. If you want to be absolutely certain of retaining the discount, then you need to get your appeal in within 14 days, but you could add the evidence later in a separate letter. Personally, I'd wait until you have it all together, as it simplifies things - but it's up to you.

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Well, just to let you know, I have emailed 'parking warden' at LA registering why I think PCN should not be paid and reasons for challenge.

 

As no time to copy documentation in support, I enclosed a final paragraph, asking them to advise whether they need sight of such documentation to consider my challenge. This effectively puts the ball in their court, and as far as I am concerned, if they do not ask for copies or sight of documentation, as offered, and in the case of them not allowing the challenge, not cancelling this PCN, then at least when I decide to take it further, this can be shown that offer was made.

 

I have received acknowledgement of my challenge and should receive response in next 14 days. I will of course, let you know any result.

 

Many thanks in the meantime for your replies and advice.

 

francis.

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The ball isn't in their court. It's in yours. As I said, you have to present your case to them.

 

If you are lucky they will write back and ask to see the documents. You'd have a better chance of getting a cancellation if you volunteer them as soon as possible, instead of waiting for them to ask.

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Well, common sense has prevailed-at least on this occasion.

 

Received notification this morning from Local Authority acknowledging receipt of email and reasons set out (as above in previous post) why PCN should be cancelled. I did not produce documents, but gave them the option if they were requested they would be forwarded.

 

2nd paragraph reads, 'The reasons you put forward for the penalty not being enforced have been considered and it has been decided that on this occasion the penalty charge will be waived'!

 

So, in effect, although the reasons put forward by myself, included my potential admitting of the offence (I am unsure whether PCN can be classed as an absolute offence similar to Driving without Insurance-meaning that if you have been caught driving without insurance, that is the end of it, there is no defence).

 

It is the reasons that arose leading to PCN being issued, resulting in the PCN being waived, due to a mistake on my part.

 

So a little victory and many thanks to all who responded.

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