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Charge Notice from Excel Parking **Won at POPLA**


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Hi all.

 

A short while ago my dad received a Parking Charge Notice on his windscreen from Excel Parking Ltd.

Let me try to setup the scene for you,

 

The car park is split in two as it is attached to a leisure park (Cinema, restaurants, gym, etc).

 

 

The Blue spaces are free parking, but only for use if you're using the leisure park and not leaving it,

and they make up a minority of the spaces available.

 

 

Next to these are many more white spaces which are pay & display and are for general use,

ie - you can leave the leisure park. In fairness to Excel, the signs for this are relatively clear and well displayed.

 

What happened was that my dad parked in one of the Blue spaces, but purchased a Pay & Display ticket,

then left the leisure park for around 15-20 minutes.

 

 

When he returned he had a notice stuck to his windscreen.

He sent an appeal letter to Excel Parking, but as you would expect they have rejected it,

giving him to 1st October to pay a reduced fine of £60, after which it will be £100.

They have included a POPLA reference number,

but have stated if the POPLA appeal fails then the full £100 fine will be payable.

 

Now, on the one hand yes he did violate the terms and conditions by parking in a blue space and leaving the leisure park.

But on the other hand, Excel have suffered absolutely no financial loss because he purchased a Pay & Display ticket

(Excel don't dispute that he bought a ticket, just that he parked in the wrong colour space).

 

 

One thing I'm not entirely sure on is if Excel have any jurisdiction of the White spaces, or if they are Council run.

I can't seem to find information one way or the other online,

so I'll have to pop by on the way home from work.

I'll also snap a few pictures of the signage to upload.

 

I have scans of the original parking notice, the Pay & Display ticket and the appeal rejection letter which I will post up when I get home,

but I just wanted to get initial thoughts and advice on the POPLA appeal process.

 

 

I'm handling things on behalf of my dad as he works out of the country most of the year and so is currently abroad.

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You have twenty eight days from the rejection letter ( when the code was generated ), to log your appeal to POPLA.

 

 

As the NTD was appealed , then the driver has been named, so no issue with keeper liability.

 

 

A simple appeal to POPLA, asking for Excel to provide a breakdown of the genuine pre estimate of loss that the charge must represent for the alleged breach of contract, will see the charge cancelled.

Also demand , by sight of contract, proof that Excell has legal authority to issue and pursue parking charge notices.

 

 

As an aside, when you win at POPLA, you could then send a demand to Excell for your money back from the pay and display ticket....

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Ignore their petty puerile threats,

They have given you the POPLA code so send your appeal off to POPLA and wait for them to uphold your appeal.

 

Even IF by the very slim chance they don't, then you still don't owe them anything...

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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There is a good chance that VCS have no authority to issue anything in the blue areas so the appeal should be based on 2 points

1/ The appellant does not believe that VCS has the authority to make claims or pursue debts in their own name as per VCS v Ibbotson and demands that Excel parking show sight of a contract with the landowner that assigns such entitlement to them.

2/ That in any case the prescribed fee was paid by the driver and therefore no loss has been made by Excel parking and the appellant puts it to strict proof for Excel to show a breakdown of the losses caused by this action or at least a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

 

It is worth mentioning the VCS V Ibbotson case because Excel own VCS. This is the appeal decision that says you cannot be penalised for leaving the car park so they are screwed on both points. So go on, stick it to them.

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There was no issue with keeper liability, my dad was the registered keeper and owner of the car at the time (though he has since sold it) and knows it was him driving it.

 

I'll get the appeal to POPLA logged on behalf of my dad with the request for a breakdown of the pre estimate of loss that the charge must represent. Even at worst, I doubt they can say it cost much, if any, more than the parking ticket. Certainly not £60-£100.

 

Thanks very much for your help guys, I'll keep the thread updated with any further outcomes :)

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I recommend that you use the 2 pronged appeal I have put forward. I bet they dont have a contract to make claims in their own name for the land that is the "Blue" spaces, otherwise why would there be a differentiation. Make them show that they have a contract, if they cannot produce it then they are making a fraudulent claim so they are likely to just offer no evidence and you win by default.

If you want to stay with just the GPEOL argument then make sure you mention that the prescribed fee was paid so no loss could have occurred to them and that the landlord hasnt made a claim against you.

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Sorry for the delay in getting back to you guys, have just started a new job so been insanely busy.

Have finally gotten the POPLA appeal logged using the approach you recommended eric, including mentioning the VCS v Ibbotson case. I've also uploaded a copy of the pay & display ticket that was purchased as I also mentioned that one had been purchased in the appeal. Will let you guys know when I hear anything back.

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  • 1 month later...

Just an update as promised.

 

 

POPLA Appeal WON!!

 

 

We've had the below notification from POPLA regarding the appeal we submitted for my dad,

 

 

 

 

The Appellant appealed against liability for the parking charge.

The Assessor has considered the evidence of both parties and has

determined that the appeal be allowed.

The Assessor’s reasons are as set out.

The Operator should now cancel the parking charge notice forthwith.

 

Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination

On 8 August 2014 the operator issued a parking charge notice to a vehicle with registration mark . The operator recorded that the vehicle was parked in a restricted area of the car park.

 

The appellant made many representations; however, I shall only deal with the ground upon which the appeal is being allowed. Specifically, the appellant submitted that the charge exceeds the loss to the operator. The implication of this submission is that the parking charge is in fact punitive.

Appellants are not to be expected to use legal terminology. In this case, it appears to be the appellant’s case that the parking charge is in fact sum for specified damages, in other words compensation agreed in advance and so should be proportionate to the loss suffered. Accordingly, the charge must be shown not to be punitive. This is illustrated by the operator providing a genuine pre-estimate of loss, which reflects the parking charge.

 

In order to justify that the amount is a genuine pre-estimate of loss, the operator submitted a breakdown of the losses they incurred as a result of the appellant’s breach. Amongst other things, the operator has included costs such as the debt recovery process and final reminder process costs which cannot be taken into account as the operator has not incurred this loss as a result of the appellant’s breach. I am not minded to accept the debt recovery process as part of the justification as not all parking charge notices will go to the debt recovery process stage. I also find that the operator cannot claim the “2nd Stage Process” to be a separate heading of losses incurred as a result of the appellant’s breach. This is because the procedure for dealing with an appeal is not structured in a way so that the appellant can re-appeal to the operator. Therefore I find that it is not reasonable for the operator to pre-estimate this as a loss. I find that the list submitted by the operator does not substantially reflect the loss suffered as a result of the appellant’s breach. This is because it appears that a substantial portion of the costs refer to the debt recovery process and the “2nd Stage Process”.

 

Considering carefully all the evidence before me, I find that the damages sought on this particular occasion do not amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

 

Accordingly, the appeal is allowed.

 

 

 

 

Took a while but we got there.

A big huge thanks to all you guys for your help!

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Brilliant, well done!

 

They keep trying with their breakdown of a genuine pre estimate of loss.

 

The clue is in the word genuine..

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In another POPLA decision, this time involving Highview, the PPC tried to calculate their "loss" by using the average spend of the customers to the store. All well and good, but that figure would only apply if all the parking spaces were occupied thus turning away a potential customer. Even more crucial, that "loss" would be suffered by the store and not by the PPC. Unsurprisingly, the appeal was allowed.

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Glad that you got the result you deserve. I am a little purturbed that they didnt consider the assignment of authority first as without that there can be no contract. It is still not clear whether VCS have any say over the blue area at all.

However, even if these points were satisfied by VCS they still lose to GPEOL every time in a free parking area.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Just an update as promised.

 

 

POPLA Appeal WON!!

 

 

We've had the below notification from POPLA regarding the appeal we submitted for my dad,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Took a while but we got there.

A big huge thanks to all you guys for your help!

 

Would you be able to PM me? I can't PM you as I don't have enough posts :-(

 

I am going through a similar case (but too late for POPLA) and the full details of your win would be very useful to me.

 

Hope you reads this...

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No don't PM him.

 

You need to keep the advice in the open public forum, otherwise you may get bad advice and take it as gospel.

 

If your in the same predicament, then start your own thread and explain who, how, what and why, then others will be able to see it

and it won't go missed on someone elses post.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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I already have my own thread - look at the recent posts, there is one started by me which I just updated a few minutes ago....

 

Well done.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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