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    • First of all, they always say that you should be prepared to give up ground. If you are convinced as to your rights in the matter – and we certainly are – then there is no reason for you to give up any ground at all. You may come under pressure to give up ground – but you don't have to concede any ground. The benefit to Hermes is that they don't end up going to court so that they are spared extra expense and also there are spared the embarrassment of a judgement against them. When you are given the mediation date, then let us know and then we will go through it with you. However, read up on all of the threads in this sub- forum. You will find exactly your situation have occurred several times and have already gone to mediation and you will find that we have already given explanations on each one of the points. Familiarise yourself with the stories and the principles involved. When you get your mediation date then come back here and let us know.
    • I have read the page on mediation, but wanted to clarify a few details.   I have been given an arranged time for the mediation call. The email from the court states:   "for mediation to be successful, you would need to be willing to negotiate on the amount of the claim and have a degree of flexibility".   Should I have to give up ground? At this stage, I feel I am owed what I have lost, and what the claim has cost me, not to mention my time. The email says if you aren't willing then mediation is unsuitable.   It then also suggests:   "It is crucial that you are able to briefly and accurately explain your claim or defence. It is vital that you have prepared for the mediation by putting together a brief summary of your opening position. Only the key points are necessary at this stage as the longer the time taken discussing the disputed issues will reduce the time available for exploring settlement options."   I am of course aware of my opening position - that they were negligent and lost my item and thus I believe I am due recompense. However, I am not certain of the legal particulars of my argument.   Furthermore:   - Should I mention that the defendant may not wish to proceed to court as it may support a precedent for others in a similar situation to also claim against them? - Are there any other things I should be mentioning to the mediator?   Appreciate the guidance.
    • Fraudsters are using the details of firms we authorise to try to convince people that they work for a genuine, authorised firm. Find out more about this ‘clone firm’. View the full article
    • We believe this firm has been providing financial services or products in the UK without our authorisation. Find out why to be especially wary of dealing with this unauthorised firm and how to protect yourself from scammers. View the full article
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
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Pyramid Scheme Organizers Brought To Justice


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A series of court cases has resulted in nine women in the Bristol area being convicted of conning about £20m from friends and family by running an illegal pyramid scheme:-

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nine-convicted-of-multi-million-pound-pyramid-promotional-scheme

 

I started to take an interest in this story back in 2008 when it was reported in the Daily Mail. I feel sorry for all the people who have been conned out of their money.

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It seems to have taken a long time to bring these to trial !

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It actually was a series of trials. The first one took place in 2012 - but with a news blackout. I imagine the whole process was very complicated with thousands of victims, a mountain of paperwork and many people to interview. Also, because this seems to be the first case brought under the new ant-pyramid legislation, then I think that the prosecution team wanted to get it right.

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How was this sold to members without them realizing they will be trying to con new members out of their money.

 

Because ( to put it bluntly) people were greedy. Back in 2007 I started a thread on MSE all about this [problem]. Most posters were in agreement it was a [problem]. But a couple of people (probably members of the scheme) kept insisting that we didn't understand about it, we were jealous they were making money and even that we were running a rival scheme and wanted to discredit them. Even when the basic maths of a pyramid scheme was explained to them, and we asked the simple question of where the "new" money was coming from they still insisted that they were right and we were wrong.

 

The same goes about articles run by a couple of newspapers in the Bristol area. There was a hard core of people who via their comments insisted that the paper and Trading Standards were wrong, they were right and and everyone would be a winner and there would be no losers.

 

This is an example of the stupid posting on MSE from one of the schemes fans:-

 

ITS A RISK.................. maybe at some point down the line, maybe in 6 months or maybe in 3 years we will all run the risk of losing our money on our particular chart (as this is the only one that I can comment on!!) If this does happen then it will be 7 people who lose out and the chances are that they will be people who have gone back in anyway and already made a profit, 50% of our chart are "re-investors" at the moment........ it could even be me.. so be it...... Im a grown up!! No-one that I have come into contact with are under any illusions.

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Here are a couple of comments from the original newspaper article:-

 

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/11482628.Women_guilty_over__pyramid__scheme/?action=success#comments

 

Well i know people who are on the charts and had numerous payouts!! People are too quick to assume, facts are fact, and not from a third party, the fact is it is working, i have been to a payout and seen it, the people there didnt look very vunerable to me, all were there of there own accord nobody forced into it.

 

I am sick of hearing about this Pyramid [problem].... Wot we are doing is not a pyramid. The difference between the two is on the pyramid scheme the person at the top made money from everyone below them, this doesnt doesnt happen with ours, when you get to the top and you have had your money you come off the chart, the chart splits then the 2 people you have bought in go in for there payout... and so on .. No matter what anyone says this is all legal.. you have to win your money on the night and donate a certain amount to charity! Why complicate things by trying to work it out mathematical, you invest 3K and bring 2 people in behind as long as people keep investing and bringing the 2 people in it will keep going, if you dont bring 2 people in then you dont move up the chart!!! You know exactly where your 3K is going you give it to the person in payout on the night, if people dont want to do fine, but keep your opinions to yourself, alot of people commenting dont know the facts of what is going on and im sure if you did know you would be doing it like the rest of us!

 

 

The "winning the money on the night" actually consisted of answering a very simple question such a "name a piece of cutlery"

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Well i know people who are on the charts and had numerous payouts!! People are too quick to assume, facts are fact, and not from a third party, the fact is it is working, i have been to a payout and seen it, the people there didnt look very vunerable to me, all were there of there own accord nobody forced into it.

 

I am sick of hearing about this Pyramid [problem].... Wot we are doing is not a pyramid. The difference between the two is on the pyramid scheme the person at the top made money from everyone below them, this doesnt doesnt happen with ours, when you get to the top and you have had your money you come off the chart, the chart splits then the 2 people you have bought in go in for there payout... and so on .. No matter what anyone says this is all legal.. you have to win your money on the night and donate a certain amount to charity! Why complicate things by trying to work it out mathematical, you invest 3K and bring 2 people in behind as long as people keep investing and bringing the 2 people in it will keep going, if you dont bring 2 people in then you dont move up the chart!!! You know exactly where your 3K is going you give it to the person in payout on the night, if people dont want to do fine, but keep your opinions to yourself, alot of people commenting dont know the facts of what is going on and im sure if you did know you would be doing it like the rest of us"

 

Lemmings. ..... Lambs to the slaughter !!!!!!

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Today's Telegraph has a long article about the women behind this crime:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11110946/The-story-behind-the-respectable-pyramid-scheme-ladies.html

 

I like this bit:-

 

He described Fox as a “forceful” character, but her background had obviously reassured investors. Mr Bracken said: “There is no doubt that for some of the victims, seeing these ladies did add to the sense of trust and did make them more likely to invest.”

Not that Fox seems to have cared too much for her customers. Minutes from the meetings taken from her house show her to be something of a snob. She showed disdain for the “gum-chewing” attendees at one event and at another expressed “sheer indignation” that a “bride” had brought cava rather than champagne to celebrate her windfall.

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