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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
    • I would say You should accept it - I HIGHLY doubt you will  be able to claim for letters at trial ans they’re offering you that, which is higher monetary value than interest.   Also they raise a good point, getting interest at anything above 4% is lucky these days, yes judges give it, but rarily above 4%   Also you might find depending on the judge  you don’t get some costs if you take it all the way over £7.40 when court woukdnt award letters costs and thus meaning their award would be less than evris offer which was made    Up to you though but the wait will be 3-4mo for a trial date at least
    • Hi Folks, Been 162 days! Just by way of update. Today I received a text from Opos Ltd so no doubt Capquest are renting the debt out to anybody who fancies a nibble. Safe to say I will not be responding.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Pyramid Scheme Organizers Brought To Justice


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A series of court cases has resulted in nine women in the Bristol area being convicted of conning about £20m from friends and family by running an illegal pyramid scheme:-

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nine-convicted-of-multi-million-pound-pyramid-promotional-scheme

 

I started to take an interest in this story back in 2008 when it was reported in the Daily Mail. I feel sorry for all the people who have been conned out of their money.

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It seems to have taken a long time to bring these to trial !

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It actually was a series of trials. The first one took place in 2012 - but with a news blackout. I imagine the whole process was very complicated with thousands of victims, a mountain of paperwork and many people to interview. Also, because this seems to be the first case brought under the new ant-pyramid legislation, then I think that the prosecution team wanted to get it right.

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How was this sold to members without them realizing they will be trying to con new members out of their money.

 

Because ( to put it bluntly) people were greedy. Back in 2007 I started a thread on MSE all about this [problem]. Most posters were in agreement it was a [problem]. But a couple of people (probably members of the scheme) kept insisting that we didn't understand about it, we were jealous they were making money and even that we were running a rival scheme and wanted to discredit them. Even when the basic maths of a pyramid scheme was explained to them, and we asked the simple question of where the "new" money was coming from they still insisted that they were right and we were wrong.

 

The same goes about articles run by a couple of newspapers in the Bristol area. There was a hard core of people who via their comments insisted that the paper and Trading Standards were wrong, they were right and and everyone would be a winner and there would be no losers.

 

This is an example of the stupid posting on MSE from one of the schemes fans:-

 

ITS A RISK.................. maybe at some point down the line, maybe in 6 months or maybe in 3 years we will all run the risk of losing our money on our particular chart (as this is the only one that I can comment on!!) If this does happen then it will be 7 people who lose out and the chances are that they will be people who have gone back in anyway and already made a profit, 50% of our chart are "re-investors" at the moment........ it could even be me.. so be it...... Im a grown up!! No-one that I have come into contact with are under any illusions.

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Here are a couple of comments from the original newspaper article:-

 

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/11482628.Women_guilty_over__pyramid__scheme/?action=success#comments

 

Well i know people who are on the charts and had numerous payouts!! People are too quick to assume, facts are fact, and not from a third party, the fact is it is working, i have been to a payout and seen it, the people there didnt look very vunerable to me, all were there of there own accord nobody forced into it.

 

I am sick of hearing about this Pyramid [problem].... Wot we are doing is not a pyramid. The difference between the two is on the pyramid scheme the person at the top made money from everyone below them, this doesnt doesnt happen with ours, when you get to the top and you have had your money you come off the chart, the chart splits then the 2 people you have bought in go in for there payout... and so on .. No matter what anyone says this is all legal.. you have to win your money on the night and donate a certain amount to charity! Why complicate things by trying to work it out mathematical, you invest 3K and bring 2 people in behind as long as people keep investing and bringing the 2 people in it will keep going, if you dont bring 2 people in then you dont move up the chart!!! You know exactly where your 3K is going you give it to the person in payout on the night, if people dont want to do fine, but keep your opinions to yourself, alot of people commenting dont know the facts of what is going on and im sure if you did know you would be doing it like the rest of us!

 

 

The "winning the money on the night" actually consisted of answering a very simple question such a "name a piece of cutlery"

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Well i know people who are on the charts and had numerous payouts!! People are too quick to assume, facts are fact, and not from a third party, the fact is it is working, i have been to a payout and seen it, the people there didnt look very vunerable to me, all were there of there own accord nobody forced into it.

 

I am sick of hearing about this Pyramid [problem].... Wot we are doing is not a pyramid. The difference between the two is on the pyramid scheme the person at the top made money from everyone below them, this doesnt doesnt happen with ours, when you get to the top and you have had your money you come off the chart, the chart splits then the 2 people you have bought in go in for there payout... and so on .. No matter what anyone says this is all legal.. you have to win your money on the night and donate a certain amount to charity! Why complicate things by trying to work it out mathematical, you invest 3K and bring 2 people in behind as long as people keep investing and bringing the 2 people in it will keep going, if you dont bring 2 people in then you dont move up the chart!!! You know exactly where your 3K is going you give it to the person in payout on the night, if people dont want to do fine, but keep your opinions to yourself, alot of people commenting dont know the facts of what is going on and im sure if you did know you would be doing it like the rest of us"

 

Lemmings. ..... Lambs to the slaughter !!!!!!

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Today's Telegraph has a long article about the women behind this crime:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11110946/The-story-behind-the-respectable-pyramid-scheme-ladies.html

 

I like this bit:-

 

He described Fox as a “forceful” character, but her background had obviously reassured investors. Mr Bracken said: “There is no doubt that for some of the victims, seeing these ladies did add to the sense of trust and did make them more likely to invest.”

Not that Fox seems to have cared too much for her customers. Minutes from the meetings taken from her house show her to be something of a snob. She showed disdain for the “gum-chewing” attendees at one event and at another expressed “sheer indignation” that a “bride” had brought cava rather than champagne to celebrate her windfall.

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