Being set up to fail on purpose

[essexmat]

I run a local work club where I help people with IT problems such as setting up email accounts, UJM accounts, CV building, basic Maths and English etc (voluntarily) and we had a new person arrive today in tears. It was his first time signing on and in his own words has no idea about computers, never used one, doesn't know how to turn one on etc.

 

After calming him down and telling him I was there to help he told me on his very first visit to the JCP that unless he has an email account set up, UJM set up and a CV printed and saved he would 'be liable to sanction'

 

Bear in mind he has no skills IT wise and only very basic English and Maths skills and no PC access he would not have a clue how to do any of this and would have risked no benefit money and an automatic sanction on his second visit.

 

I told him that the JCP adviser was a bit extreme and as long as you initially show evidence of what you are doing to find work the email account, UJM and CV can be done in the coming weeks. He said he would do this to his adviser but the adviser, or coach or whatever they are called this week said it has to be done by his 9am appointment on 25th.

 

Luckily he used his common sense and found the work club and I was able to do it all for him this morning BUT me doing it doesn't solve the problem, he needs help and training to do it himself especially if using UJM and email regularly. In my opinion the adviser/coach has set him up to fail at his first hurdle.

 

He then told me the adviser/coach wants to see evidence this had been done so I printed a copy of his CV, noted his email address and password on paper and his UJM gateway code and advised him not to show his password to the adviser/coach. He also said he has to tick the authorisation on UJM, I said "leave it unticked, it is not mandatory for you to let them have access" but I wondered should I have done this to save him aggro - if he gets pulled on it I will fight his case for him.

 

All in all, as the title says, I think he has been set up to fail from the start.

 

In other news, unemployment is down, funny that being the summer season, but now that is over let's see the next set of figures - oh, and what about the thousands moving to ESA from JSA?

[estellyn]

The more interesting thing is the thousands moving from jsa to wtc due to being 'self employed' undoubtedly under the direction of the work programme provider.

 

Regarding your guy, I think you did exactly right and he was lucky to find you. Yes I agree, sounds like a more easy target has been preyed upon by a target driven 'coach'.

[jasta11]

Good for you helping the guy, Matt.

 

Best to start as you mean to go on and not let the JC have access to your friends UJ account. Once they enter his email address he used to create the account they'll get a message telling them they don't have permission to view the account and this in itself is concrete proof that he did indeed create one - it says so in the UJ Toolkit, so that can be used if the adviser gets 'uppity' (as can the PCS memo issued last year telling JC staff they cannot make customers give access)

 

Disgraceful attitude by the so-called 'Coach'; she must have realised the guy had no knowledge of IT but did she try and help him or make allowances? No - far better to set the guy up for a fall.

 

It will be worth him recording every meeting with the JC too.

[SabreSheep]

Bravo

 

Maybe people should start up volonteer JSA clubs where victims can be given advice. Aim = 1 per center minimum PIcket and flier outside to raise awareness XD

[Mr.P]

he told me on his very first visit to the JCP that unless he has an email account set up, UJM set up and a CV printed and saved he would 'be liable to sanction'

 

All "steps" mandated by the JCP must be appropriate in the claimant's circumstances - If he does not have access to a computer or is unable to use one, then requiring him to have email/UJM accounts is certainly unreasonable. unfortunately, challenging these directions requires a certain amount of knowledge and the willingness to stand your ground in the face of a possible sanction.

 

Perhaps this individual might appreciate the presence of an advocate at his next appointment - Not so easy to dominate (bully ?) if there is a witness who might be recording the proceedings.

[BazzaS]

Perhaps this individual might appreciate the presence of an advocate at his next appointment - Not so easy to dominate (bully ?) if there is a witness who might be recording the proceedings.

 

I don't disagree he was being set up to fail.

I don't disagree he might benefit by having someone with him at his next appointment.

 

I just wonder if their role to prevent him being bullied is clear: they might be a witness (passive), an advocate (active), or both a witness & an advocate : but the roles are different!

[jasta11]

I don't disagree he was being set up to fail.

I don't disagree he might benefit by having someone with him at his next appointment.

 

I just wonder if their role to prevent him being bullied is clear: they might be a witness (passive), an advocate (active), or both a witness & an advocate : but the roles are different!

 

Good points - ideally the person would be both. If they drop a few DWP rules into the conversation and let the adviser know there's someone there with knowledge who can spot bulls*** then the adviser will hopefully take note and treat the customer properly.

 

..or they could just act as moral support and play dumb, letting the adviser dig themselves into a deeper hole - naturally you'd be recording everything for inclusion in a nice complaint letter. I suppose this could be considered as 'setting the adviser up to fail'. Seems fair to me

[essexmat]

First of all, apologies for bumping this threadafter so long but I feel it is right to follow up what has been happening.

 

After many weeks of emailing backwards and forwards to the JCP manager we still have not got a conclusion as to the best way forward but today has been the best as I recieved an email from the JCP manager which read:

 

"Thank you for your email, and I acknowledge your concerns. To investigate this matter fully, I would appreciate it if you could supply me with the Name and National Insurance Number of the claimant concerned. This will enable me to discuss this specific case with the Work Coach concerned. I appreciate you may not wish to supply this information, so wish to assure you it is for training / case conference purposes only, not to pursue any activity with the person concerned"

 

I am yet to reply but rest assured I will not benaming the person. The most disturbing aspect of the email however is that I would know the NI number of the claimant.

 

I am usually very good at replying to emails but I am stumped as to what to say to be honest - any ideas good people of CAG?

[SabreSheep]

Unfortunatly due to data protection concerns and also the interests of my client I am unable to provide you with the information you have requested unless my client gives me writen permission to pass this information onto you,

[essexmat]

Unfortunatly due to data protection concerns and also the interests of my client I am unable to provide you with the information you have requested unless my client gives me writen permission to pass this information onto you,

 

Yep, short and sweet and to the point - will use that in it's simplicity

 

Thanks

[jasta11]

I think I'd also want to be there during this 'discussion' between the JC manager and the Work Coach.. who's to say the Coach won't deny any knowledge of your friends lack of computer literacy? They may even claim they tried to 'help' him and he refused; I wouldn't put anything past them in order to get a sanction.

 

Pity the initial interview hadn't been recorded and the Coach shown to have been unreasonable in what they asked.