Jump to content

 

BankFodder BankFodder


style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 2023 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hi, as it seems is happening far to often reading through this forum normal people are suffering at the hands of the almighty councils of our country and at the hands of lying bully boy bailiffs....

 

If anyone who understands the process better than me could offer some advice I would be eternally grateful!

 

Here is my story:

 

  • I got a PCN

 

  • PCN removed from my windscreen so I never knew it occured(Kids seem to find it amusing to put them on other cars where I live :|)

 

  • I have been apparently been sent various Notice to Owner letters but Just after I got this ticket I moved house so obviously never received any Notifications.

 

  • In fact to date I still have never had one piece of paper/letter presented to me or delivered to my new address asking for money!
  • I got clamped out of the blue 2-3 weeks ago and filled out an out of time declaration which was accepted on the day. They however had my van clamped for 2 days, the bailiff trying every trick in the book to get me to sign to admit the debt or giving permission to levy goods. The warrant was of course at the wrong address.
  • I waited for northapton court to uphold the out of time but I have just received a letter back saying this has been refused and all the action is now back on.

 

  • I believe this is because whilst moving I didnt tell the DVLA of my change of address (a genuine mistake in the stress of moving but a mistake nevertheless)
  • I am now facing a disproportionate fine (which seems way too common reading in this forum) of over £500 for an unpaid parking fine.
  • I can appeal by way of n244 which will cost me £155 which seems the only way I can be heard, the court have received evidence from the council which has stopped the Out of Time.
  • My question is am I throwing good money after bad if I proceed to go to court and actually be heard as to what has happened?
  • If I pay the bailiff before they turn up do I have pay an attendance fee if they dont attend?
  • Can this really happen? i.e. hold me to ransom with the threat of clamping when everyone concerned knows I have never received a demand for payment as I live at a different address, send me a bill and I will pay it!!!!

Any thoughts help or guidance is gratefully received.

 

 

Thanks in advance

Edited by misterman35

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How long was the delay between your change of address and notifying DVLA ?

 

Was this a work van ?

 

What enforcement fees have been applied ?


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is my work van, I wondered if they can do this? Is it classed as tools?

I didnt notify the DVLA. Bad move I know!

I dont know what enforcement fees have been applied, I have never received any paperwork, I think the bailiff said it was around £500.

 

My van is currently unclamped but I have received a letter from Northampton court saying my Out of time was refused so now I am guessing the fun begins again or I pay in full. :x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Misterman,

 

Unlike some other forums that have little or no human intervention and answers are simply 'cut and paste' replies that are the same for each query you will find on this forum that in order to provide a suitable response we tend to ask a fair amount of questions first. So here goes:

 

When completing the OTT can you tell us what you had written on the TE7 (by this I do not mean for you to provide a copy but just let us know the basis of what you had said).

 

Did you receive a copy of the local authorities response addressed to the Traffic Enforcement Centre outlining their reason for rejecting the OTT)

 

What is the date on the letter from TEC (rejecting your application)

 

PS: Have you now notified DVLA and if so, have you received a new V5C

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An important point here is that the fee to seek a 'review' by way of an N244 increased significantly on 20th April to £155 but this fee is only if you wish to have your hearing heard in court with a hearing. In other words, for this fee your case will be transferred to your local County Court and you will be required to attend a hearing. Sometimes a representative of the local authority will attend although this is is quite rare.

 

For a third of the price (£50) you can instead elect to have the rejection 'reviewed' by a District Judge sitting at Northampton County Court and this 'review' will be decided WITHOUT a need for either you or the local authority to actually attend. This N244 application is referred to as being 'without a hearing'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Tomtubby,

 

I wrote the following as a reason, which they accepted on the day and I got my vehicle released the next day(after the bailiff trying to get me to sign paperwork - with me refusing)

 

I have never received any notification of this offence if it actually took place at all? I have moved address and any post would have been returned to sender or forwarded on to me. I have seen/received no such notifications. I have had a parking ticket 2 months ago with this local authority and paid in full, surely I would be flagged on the system? I would not let a situation occur like this. I pay fines if I know about them!

 

I haven't written to the DVLA yet. The letter from TEC is dated 5th September. I havent had any correspondence from the council including a copy of why the rejected my reason.(which I am guessing because I didnt tell the DVLA)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because notifying DVLA is a legal requirement and there is a fine for not doing so, I can't see you getting a sympathetic Judge look at any appeal.

 

Think you have no choice but to settle the correct amount you owe, but I would certainly not pay any bailiff fees until you have verified these to be correct. You should ask for a full breakdown of the fees.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you are probably right... very hard and very very expensive lesson to learn. A £35 ticket turned in to a £500 fine.

 

I guess I will have to call and pay tomorrow. :sad:

 

A word of advice to anyone reading this in a similar situation is never believe a word a bailiff tells you, ever. They will lie and tell you whatever they think will make you sign or pay!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Because notifying DVLA is a legal requirement and there is a fine for not doing so, I can't see you getting a sympathetic Judge look at any appeal.

 

Think you have no choice but to settle the correct amount you owe, but I would certainly not pay any bailiff fees until you have verified these to be correct. You should ask for a full breakdown of the fees.

 

UB.

 

Whilst what you have stated above about the DVLA is correct the position (as far as I am aware from a very reliable source) is that to date, DVLA have not sought a conviction against anyone for failing to update their records with a new address.

 

Also.....and this is most important....just because the debtor has not updated his address cannot (and must not) detract from the FACT that he did not receive statutory notices and accordingly, he has been denied the opportunity to either pay the charge at the earlier discounted rate or to appeal the issue of the ticket to the local authority.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Tomtubby,

 

I wrote the following as a reason, which they accepted on the day and I got my vehicle released the next day(after the bailiff trying to get me to sign paperwork - with me refusing)

 

I have never received any notification of this offence if it actually took place at all? I have moved address and any post would have been returned to sender or forwarded on to me. I have seen/received no such notifications. I have had a parking ticket 2 months ago with this local authority and paid in full, surely I would be flagged on the system? I would not let a situation occur like this. I pay fines if I know about them!

 

I haven't written to the DVLA yet. The letter from TEC is dated 5th September. I haven't had any correspondence from the council including a copy of why the rejected my reason.(which I am guessing because I didn't tell the DVLA)

 

 

I am sorry to give you bad news here but your OTT was destined to fail given that you had not provided sufficient detail. I will send you a PM with suggested wording. My personal opinion is that I would NOT suggest paying £155 for a review but if this were my case I would pay £50 to have the rejection reviewed by a District Judge without a hearing. You would need to provide some further details to give you a greater chance of acceptance. If accepted, the warrant would be revoked and the ticket 'rewound' back to the Notice to owner stage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it might be worth a punt, they know for a fact I have never received any notifications and still haven't even though they still have my correct address!

 

Can they clamp my van in the meantime?

 

I need it for work and not having it or being made late is not an option.

 

Again thanks for your help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you could guide me in what to write in my appeal or point me in the right direction that would be great! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am going to write the following in my evidence, do you think it will stand up or is there anything else I should consider adding?

 

"My recent Out of Time Declaration has refused by the court officer and I wish to appeal against this decision on the following grounds:

I changed address on the 18th December 2013.

To date I have never received a Statutory notification, notice of any type in connection with this PCN, denying me the opportunity to appeal the notice, pay at a discounted rate or even know I had received a PCN. "

 

Any help/guidance you can offer is gratefully received.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
UB.

 

Whilst what you have stated above about the DVLA is correct the position (as far as I am aware from a very reliable source) is that to date, DVLA have not sought a conviction against anyone for failing to update their records with a new address.

 

Also.....and this is most important....just because the debtor has not updated his address cannot (and must not) detract from the FACT that he did not receive statutory notices and accordingly, he has been denied the opportunity to either pay the charge at the earlier discounted rate or to appeal the issue of the ticket to the local authority.

 

DVLA dont prosecute for "failure to update address", the police will and do report the offence of failure to update address details.

The attached FOI request for example shows that in 2013 Police in Scotland recorded 1814 offences of failure to update address.

 

Although slightly off topic, the further two FOI requests, Mellor and Brundell show that the DVLA receive a substantial amount of money from drivers for a variety of offences

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DVLA dont prosecute for "failure to update address", the police will and do report the offence of failure to update address details.

The attached FOI request for example shows that in 2013 Police in Scotland recorded 1814 offences of failure to update address.

 

Although slightly off topic, the further two FOI requests, Mellor and Brundell show that the DVLA receive a substantial amount of money from drivers for a variety of offences

 

Thank you Sweep for your input. The letters are very interesting indeed and I am surprised at how many convictions there are and the money raised.

 

What I had said above is that:

 

"DVLA have not sought a conviction against anyone for failing to update their records with a new address"

 

What I meant by this is that as far as I am aware there has not been a conviction against a motorist for failing to advise DVLA when they MOVE ADDRESS. The documents that you have posted copies of (in particular the two from Rob Toft at DVLA) all relate to failing to update new keeper details when a person has sold or disposed of a vehicle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TT is right on this. It is immaterial why the council's notices did not arrive at the debtor's house. He might be responsible for it, but that's not this issue. The issue is whether he received them, and he didn't.

 

In terms of what you write on the N244, it's not enough just to assert that you didn't get the notices. You need to explain much more fully. State that you did not find the PCN on your windscreen and were unaware that it had been issued. Explain that you lived at xxxx until x/x/2014 - give the date. Tell then that at that point you moved to xxxxx. Include something to corroborate this if you can - rent agreement, mortgage, council tax etc. State that all the council's notices were sent out after that date, and all of them were addressed to your former home and so you received nothing until the bailiffs contacted you. That is why your application is late.

 

This sort of information is crystal clear and explains to whoever reads it exactly what the position is. If I were you I wouldn't even mention DVLA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...