HCEO instructed to enforce HC Writ against Limited Company

[Jameson78]

Hello team,

 

Returning member which needs your kind help again, thank you in advance!

 

Today, I received a phone call and subsequent email from a nice lady from Wilson and Co telling me that they have been instructed to enforce a High Court Write against my Limited Company.

 

None of the documentation, Notice of Claim, Judgement Form, invoices, etc. has ever been received by us.

 

By phone, the nice lady told me that papers were served by recorded delivery to what I confirmed to the lady is our old service address. We moved to a new "virtual office" a few months earlier. (Formally changed via Companies House).

 

We are a web based booking company and have no assets. The business address is a virtual office, we are not there, but any mail (we don't get any really) is forwarded to our home address. They don't have our home address - well I have not given it to them anyway.

 

The debt is for a magazine advert to promote our business.

 

The nice lady has emailed me the details of the Judgment and costs incurred, as follows:

 

Judgment £731

Costs of Execution £111.75

Assessed Solicitors Costs £152.00

HCEO fees: £944.00

 

I told the nice lady that that I will communicate with her by email, she is happy to do so by email. I confirmed in writing that today is the first time we are hearing about this judgement and writ and that I am amazed at the excessive HCEO fees.

 

The nice lady has been kind enough to tell me the cliam number and and where the judgement was obtained, "County Court Business Centre".

 

Where do I go from here? Can I apply for Set Aside and Stay of Writ?

 

This has got totally out of control and the fees are absurd! Do I contact the creditor, an (advertising/printing house) or do I contact the solicitors which has instructed the High Court Writ against by business or do I continue in email exchange with the nice lady at Wilson and Co.?

 

 

On a different side-point, I am furious with my ex-accountant who it seems has been "signing for" important letters from the Courts and not informing me. If this is really the case, and the creditor has been sending such letters and claims packs by recorded delivery, then I will be paying my old accountant a visit and making a complaint! At the very least he should be emailing me to say he has what looks to be important letters for me, or even better, he should be refusing to sign for them and they would automatically be sent back to the creditors solicitors, whom would investigate further by either visiting my website or checking Companies House listing for the new service address. I feel like I have a case against my ex-accountant as he has helped balloon this relatively small debt, to a ridiculously large one.

 

Back to what my next move should be? Any help and advice would be most appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Jameson

[ericsbrother]

What a mess! the documents were served on your last known address and aparrently your agent accepted them so the company chasing you has done things properly. However, you can try contacting the county court that issued the CCJ and ask for a set aside on the basis of non service of documents as they were sent to an old address where they were opened by someone who has nothing to do with the business and had no authority to do so.

If the judge doesnt allow the set aside then you can claim against your ex-accountant for interfering with your mail and causing you a loss as a result. Obviously you run a risk of losing any claim against the accountant as it will be your word against theirs as to what authority was given and what action they took.

[Jameson78]

Indeed it is a mess! I will request the set aside. What about the huge HCEO fees of £944.00?

 

What can I do about that? It seems a ridiculously huge amount to pay!! How do I go about contesting this?

[ploddertom]

The question before applying for setaside has to be - do you owe the money to the claimant?

[Jameson78]

Hello ploddertom,

Yes, I do owe the money. However, I did not know anything about the Judgement until today. I never received an invoice, a chaser or any form of reminder to pay.

 

Is there anyway I can show the Court that I honestly did not know about any impending CCJ? And the HCEO fees are totally unfair. What have they done other than telephone and email me? Can I legally contest the amount?

 

Thanks

[SabreSheep]

If sucessful at a set aside those fees etc are removed and the process begins again

[ploddertom]

Hello ploddertom,

Yes, I do owe the money. However, I did not know anything about the Judgement until today. I never received an invoice, a chaser or any form of reminder to pay.

 

Is there anyway I can show the Court that I honestly did not know about any impending CCJ? And the HCEO fees are totally unfair. What have they done other than telephone and email me? Can I legally contest the amount?

 

Thanks

 

Obviously I have no clue as to how this has come about but would venture to say that you engaged the services of a company to do some work for you, which they appear to have done. Not having received any payment from you they have taken the action you have outlined above. Somewhere along the line you have "changed" address but not notified your creditor who I imagine have had everything sent to a previous address. I honestly think you may struggle to gain set aside unless you are in a position to pay in full otherwise you will be just exchanging 1 CCJ for another.

 

All is not quite lost however as you could still apply for a Stay of Execution against the Writ on the basis you knew nothing of this until contacted by Wilsons.

[HCEOs]

Has the HCEO visited either you or your old address?

 

Looking at the fees at least one attendance should have been made. If it is under the new regulations since April the fees appear to be the Compliance Stage (£75), Enforcement Stage 1 (£190) and the Enforcement Stage 2 (£495) and VAT although this only comes to £912. Not sure what the other £32 is.

[Jameson78]

Hi ploddertom,

 

Q3 on the N244 - give a brief description:

 

Is it wise to use the following:

 

I am requesting a Stay of Execution pending a Set Aside hearing.

I am applying for a Set Aside on the following grounds:

i - you have not been served the claim at your current address

ii - you have not been made aware of the debt by the Claimant

 

 

Reasons for the above:

i - I had formally changed my service address via Companies House months prior.

ii - I have not received an invoice or reminders or letter before action. I accept that they provided the service and placed the adverts in the magazine. The company was communicating with me by email. I confirmed the order by email. The agreement was to place three adverts in the magazine over a 6 month period and I simply forgot all about it. Clearly my big mistake and I regret this very much. However, I am surprised the company did not send me an invoice, by email, which was our channel of communication. The company did not send any email reminders and I simply forgot all about it until the phone call yesterday from the HCEO!

 

Or should I not mention the application for a Set Aside? State only, as you suggest, that I am applying for a Stay of Execution against the Writ on the basis I know nothing of this until contacted by Wilsons.

 

unless you are in a position to pay in full otherwise you will be just exchanging 1 CCJ for another.

 

If I am able to Set Aside the CCJ, then I may be able to raise some money. But the debt has more than doubled! I would be able to raise £1,000, mostly by overdraft, which would cover the Judgement, Costs of Execution and Assessed Solicitors costs but that would be it as the company is not making any money, (at all unfortunately, we are still in the "setting up" phase), and this would be the best I could do quickly.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi HCEOs,

 

I do not know if the HCEO has visited my old address. Of course there is no way for me to prove they have not if the HCEO say that they have. So it appears I am at their mercy on this point. Can I ask for proof, directly with the HCEO, will they be able to tell me the date they visited and who they spoke with?

 

I have asked for a breakdown of the HCEO fees and will post them when I receive them.

 

 

Thanks,

[sequenci]

I would forget the idea of a set aside, it isn't going to happen.

[ploddertom]

I would forget the idea of a set aside, it isn't going to happen.

 

I'll agree with that now having seen the reasons why. It will be £155 down the drain.

[ploddertom]

 

I have asked for a breakdown of the HCEO fees and will post them when I receive them.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Be interested to see this given the new regime. Have you also chased up to see what was on the original Particulars of Claim which were submitted - you will need to contact the Court where it was all down at.

[Jameson78]

Have you also chased up to see what was on the original Particulars of Claim which were submitted - you will need to contact the Court where it was all down at.

 

I have been given the claim number by the HCEO and where the judgement was obtained, "county court Business Centre" Is this Northampton?

 

How do I get the POC? Do I simply phone the court and ask for it?

[ploddertom]

It is https://courttribunalfinder.service.gov.uk/courts/county-court-business-centre-ccbc - ring, explain what has happened and ask if they can send out the docs you didn't get.

 

What we should have explained earlier is that although you did have grounds for Set Aside because you had not received any documentation you also need a reasonable defence to the action. Under your own admission it was because you moved address, also your accountant appeared to have received documents, you never notified your Claimant of the address change & also say you forgot all about it. This would all go against you but at the same time there is the lottery of the Judge appointed but on balance you would probably lose. Not trying to be hard hearted but saying it as I see it. The decision has to be yours.

[HCEOs]

Hi HCEOs,

 

I do not know if the HCEO has visited my old address. Of course there is no way for me to prove they have not if the HCEO say that they have. So it appears I am at their mercy on this point. Can I ask for proof, directly with the HCEO, will they be able to tell me the date they visited and who they spoke with?

 

I have asked for a breakdown of the HCEO fees and will post them when I receive them.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Every HCEO is under a duty to provide you with a breakdown of charges. It will be interesting to see what has been charged, when and why.

[Jameson78]

It is https://courttribunalfinder.service....ss-centre-ccbc - ring, explain what has happened and ask if they can send out the docs you didn't get.

 

Thanks ploddertom,

 

The Courts just emailed across a screenshot of the POC:

 

THE CLAIMANT © CLAIMS THE SUMS 908.08 DUE IN RESPECT OF GOODS/SERVICES SUPPLIED BY XXXXXXXXXX (THE SUPPLIER) TO THE DEFENDANT (D) DETAILED ON INVOICES DELIVERED, DUE AND PAYABLE. BY AN EXISTING FACTORING AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE SUPPLIER (S) AND C ALL RIGHTS ACCRUING UNDER S'S SALES LEDGER WERE ASSIGNEDTO C. NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT OF C'S RIGHTS WAS PROVIDED TO D BY WRITTEN NOTICE ON THE INVOICES, LETTER AND/OR STATEMENT OF ACCOUNT C ALSO CLAIMS COSTS AND INTEREST PURSUANT TO THE LATE PAYMENT OF COMMERCIAL DEBT (INTEREST) ACT 1998 AT 8% ABOVE BANK OF ENGLAND BASE RATE PER ANNUM FROM THE DATE THE UNPAID INVOICES BECAME DUE TO TODAY BEING 18.08 PLUS COMPENSATION COSTS OF 40.00 AND CONTINUING AT A DAILY RATE OF 0.16 UNTIL THE DATE OF PAYMENT OR JUDGMENT. C HAS COMPLIED WITH THE SECTIONS III AND IV OF THE PRACTICE DIRECTIONON PRE-ACTION CONDUCT. C BELIEVES THAT THE FACTS STATED IN THIS CLAIM FORM ARE TRUE. NUMBER

 

The figures are slightly different to the ones given over the phone by the HCEO lady, but I may have written them down wrong.

 

I don't dispute the service received, although one of the magazine issues our advert will appear is in the future: November.

I did not receive the notice of assignment, written notice on invoices, letter and/or statement of account.

 

I am still waiting for the HCEO breakdown of charges.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Thanks ploddertom,

 

The Courts just emailed across a screenshot of the POC:

 

THE CLAIMANT © CLAIMS THE SUMS 908.08 DUE IN RESPECT OF GOODS/SERVICES SUPPLIED BY XXXXXXXXXX (THE SUPPLIER) TO THE DEFENDANT (D) DETAILED ON INVOICES DELIVERED, DUE AND PAYABLE. BY AN EXISTING FACTORING AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE SUPPLIER (S) AND C ALL RIGHTS ACCRUING UNDER S'S SALES LEDGER WERE ASSIGNEDTO C. NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT OF C'S RIGHTS WAS PROVIDED TO D BY WRITTEN NOTICE ON THE INVOICES, LETTER AND/OR STATEMENT OF ACCOUNT C ALSO CLAIMS COSTS AND INTEREST PURSUANT TO THE LATE PAYMENT OF COMMERCIAL DEBT (INTEREST) ACT 1998 AT 8% ABOVE BANK OF ENGLAND BASE RATE PER ANNUM FROM THE DATE THE UNPAID INVOICES BECAME DUE TO TODAY BEING 18.08 PLUS COMPENSATION COSTS OF 40.00 AND CONTINUING AT A DAILY RATE OF 0.16 UNTIL THE DATE OF PAYMENT OR JUDGMENT. C HAS COMPLIED WITH THE SECTIONS III AND IV OF THE PRACTICE DIRECTIONON PRE-ACTION CONDUCT. C BELIEVES THAT THE FACTS STATED IN THIS CLAIM FORM ARE TRUE. NUMBER

 

The figures are slightly different to the ones given over the phone by the HCEO lady, but I may have written them down wrong.

 

I don't dispute the service received, although one of the magazine issues our advert will appear is in the future: November.

*****I did not receive the notice of assignment,***** written notice on invoices, letter and/or statement of account.

 

I am still waiting for the HCEO breakdown of charges.

 

 

 

 

***** The debt has not been assigned the HCEO is working directly for the " Creditor".

[ploddertom]

Thanks ploddertom,

 

The Courts just emailed across a screenshot of the POC:

 

THE CLAIMANT © CLAIMS THE SUMS 908.08 DUE IN RESPECT OF GOODS/SERVICES SUPPLIED BY XXXXXXXXXX (THE SUPPLIER) TO THE DEFENDANT (D) DETAILED ON INVOICES DELIVERED, DUE AND PAYABLE. BY AN EXISTING FACTORING AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE SUPPLIER (S) AND C ALL RIGHTS ACCRUING UNDER S'S SALES LEDGER WERE ASSIGNEDTO C. NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT OF C'S RIGHTS WAS PROVIDED TO D BY WRITTEN NOTICE ON THE INVOICES, LETTER AND/OR STATEMENT OF ACCOUNT C ALSO CLAIMS COSTS AND INTEREST PURSUANT TO THE LATE PAYMENT OF COMMERCIAL DEBT (INTEREST) ACT 1998 AT 8% ABOVE BANK OF ENGLAND BASE RATE PER ANNUM FROM THE DATE THE UNPAID INVOICES BECAME DUE TO TODAY BEING 18.08 PLUS COMPENSATION COSTS OF 40.00 AND CONTINUING AT A DAILY RATE OF 0.16 UNTIL THE DATE OF PAYMENT OR JUDGMENT. C HAS COMPLIED WITH THE SECTIONS III AND IV OF THE PRACTICE DIRECTIONON PRE-ACTION CONDUCT. C BELIEVES THAT THE FACTS STATED IN THIS CLAIM FORM ARE TRUE. NUMBER

 

The figures are slightly different to the ones given over the phone by the HCEO lady, but I may have written them down wrong.

 

I don't dispute the service received, although one of the magazine issues our advert will appear is in the future: November.

I did not receive the notice of assignment, written notice on invoices, letter and/or statement of account.

 

I am still waiting for the HCEO breakdown of charges.

 

***** The debt has not been assigned the HCEO is working directly for the " Creditor".

 

Sorry buy I don't understand what you are saying. The OP has given details of what was on the POC - before any Judgment was awarded and certainly before enforcement commenced.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The OP states he did not receive " notice of assignment" assignment of what to whom, the alleged debt has not left the control of the claimant.

[ploddertom]

The OP states he did not receive " notice of assignment" assignment of what to whom, the alleged debt has not left the control of the claimant.

 

OK but if you read the POC it seems clear to me that this was dealt with by the invoice being sold on using a factoring agreement. The supplier of the services is not the claimant and we have already seen that the defendant has said previously they did not receive any documentation as they had "moved", but again there is mention of an accountant possibly having received them. No one has said the HCEO has been assigned the debt as this never happens, it is the claimant who engages their services and remains responsible for the actions & charges of his contractor albeit the Authorised Agent oversees it all.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

OK but if you read the POC it seems clear to me that this was dealt with by the invoice being sold on using a factoring agreement. The supplier of the services is not the claimant and we have already seen that the defendant has said previously they did not receive any documentation as they had "moved", but again there is mention of an accountant possibly having received them. No one has said the HCEO has been assigned the debt as this never happens, it is the claimant who engages their services and remains responsible for the actions & charges of his contractor albeit the Authorised Agent oversees it all.

 

 

The debt has been factored i.e. the company has been paid by a factor which has paid the outstanding account less commission,

may small companies use factor to improve cash flow, especially when they work in areas where slow/late payments are common.

[Jameson78]

Update:

 

The HCEO emailed me on Friday with a chronological list of recent event and communication.

 

It confirms that I have provided the HCEO with an alternative address for the company and that searches carried out using Google confirm that this address is a virtual office address and that it is unlikely that there will be any assets belonging to the debtor company at this address and they await details of how this debt was incurred to enable the HCEO to liaise with the debtor company Director further.

 

The email refers to an attachment of the assignment to RBS Invoice Finance, but that is missing - no attachment.

 

I have also previously asked for a breakdown of the HCEO fees, which is still outstanding. I will write back in the morning pointing out that attachments were missing requesting the info again, which may buy be a couple more days.

 

The old office.

I emailed my old accountant expressing how angry I am with him. I explained that his failure to inform me of extremely important correspondence has caused my creditor to apply to the Court for a County Court Judgement against my company. I was given 14 days to respond to the Court through the necessary paperwork and because I had no knowledge of any paperwork, the Court issued the CCJ and this will now affect my company and its director, my wife.

 

To summarize a very long email I sent to my accountant: I explained that I had been trying to contact him for several months and as he failed to acknowledge my correspondence, I had no choice but to take the decision to change the registered address of my business via Companies House. I am sure anyone would agree on the importance of having a reliable and secure registered office and I felt I could not run my business under his current address. This has now proved to be correct but at a huge cost and penalty to me.

 

My agreement with my accountant was a verbal one, based partly on "friendship" and partly on previous dealings that I had when I was using his services with a previous company.

Our agreement dated back to August 2013 when I incorporated my company. It was agreed that I could use his offices as my registered office, just like his other clients. When I discussed monthly charges, he said that it would not be necessary as there is no accountancy involved until such time that I must file my first year accounts, at which point I would use his services going forward. My friend was witness to this and during our subsequent meetings and progress updates he never raised any further questions on this matter.

 

I am furious that he did not forwarded me the aforementioned correspondence. At the very least, he should have an obligation to contact me to say that I have received important documents and I should arrange to pick them up – or simply refuse to sign for any recorded delivery documents addressed to my Company. His office had interfered with my mail and caused me a considerable financial loss as a result, which far exceeds the sums mentioned.

 

He basically said that there is nothing in writing between us confirming our agreement and any postal mail that would have been addressed to my company would have been returned to sender - unopened. He also confirmed that he left the office back in July and any mail would have been sent back to sender. I believe that he had an obligation to tell me about this material fact - the fact that he no longer has the office and that I should take appropriate action. He just ignored me.

 

I acknowledge the original debt but t I think it is only fair that the accountant agrees to compensate me the amount £1,412.75 so I am able to settle this immediately before it snowballs further. Clearly this is not going to happen. I did my best by writing to him to attempt to resolve this amicably. Of course I am not going to get a penny from him.

 

I really do not know what to do next. My business is new, we have made no sales at all as we have been building the website and working on the SEO. This takes time and I only have costs going out for the past year, no sales, no money coming in. This fine of £2,000 will break us. I am able to raise £1,000 immediately. I will try and pay the amounts on the order as soon as possible. This would state “Satisfied” on the company’s credit file. I would then apply to the Court for the CCJ to be removed on the above grounds. (What are my chances based on what has been going on with my old "accountant". I hope will have a good chance of the CCJ being removed if I just see the Judge and explain what has happened. Would not pay the fine totally before I can apply to the courts to have the CCJ removed?

 

Is it worth taking my old accountant to court if my friend agrees to submit an affidavit?

Going back to the amount on the order. Have they followed protocol correctly, is there anything I can do to reduce this amount? Any angles? I owe the money and I am not trying to get out of it, only the CCJ is going to hit us badly when we apply for credit. It remains on file for 6 years, until 2020! The judgement shows on my company’s credit rating. Future financing will be denied, overdrafts will be denied and suppliers will not extend credit. That's really bad for us.

 

This whole event has effected me tremendously and any help or advice I can get from the team will be very much appreciated.

 

Thanks for you help

[ericsbrother]

a verbal contract is just as valid in law as a written one, just harder to prove what was agreed. You will also have problems proving that your ex-accountant didnt send the mail back as he says, you would need to speak to someone else who wrote to you and didnt get their letter back to act as a witness to this to add a bit of meat to the bones of your arguments.

So, back to the set aside, as said very difficult so what is your best choice? Both very difficult without witnesses

[Jameson78]

I understand, thanks - so if we put the matter of my accountant to one side for the moment, my immediate issue is dealing with the HCEO.

 

The HCEO concedes that the business address is a virtual office and there are no assets belonging to the business, other than the website. Which is correct.

They do not have the home address of the director, so they are communicating with me by email.

 

The HCEO does not know where I live otherwise I would probably have been visited by one of their officers by now.

 

My goal is to offer the HCEO an offer as final payment and have the CCJ registered as satisfied on our credit file.

 

What are my chances in applying to the Court to have my CCJ removed after dealing with the HCEO?

 

Can I offer the HCEO a one off payment to settle this matter and do they typically accept payments in instances where they are also at a loose end with regards to enforcement and seizing items as they do not have any address for me?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I understand, thanks - so if we put the matter of my accountant to one side for the moment, my immediate issue is dealing with the HCEO.

 

The HCEO concedes that the business address is a virtual office and there are no assets belonging to the business, other than the website. Which is correct.

They do not have the home address of the director, so they are communicating with me by email.

 

The HCEO does not know where I live otherwise I would probably have been visited by one of their officers by now.

 

My goal is to offer the HCEO an offer as final payment and have the CCJ registered as satisfied on our credit file.

 

What are my chances in applying to the Court to have my CCJ removed after dealing with the HCEO?

 

Can I offer the HCEO a one off payment to settle this matter and do they typically accept payments in instances where they are also at a loose end with regards to enforcement and seizing items as they do not have any address for me?

 

 

I can't envisage the CCJ being removed if you pay the debt off, marked satisfied yes.

 

 

It is a matter of public record and should remain so.

 

 

If you wanted to have the judgement set aside, you have to have a viable defence to the original claim.

 

 

The HCEO is working in accordance with a writ which defines the action to be taken.