The smear test id medival

[SHIRLI]

THE SMEAR TEST IS MEDIVAL AND RIFE FOR ABUSE

 

 

its about time a new less intrusive test was formulated, scientists can diagnose most cancers and diseases by blood tests THIS IS 2014 about time we women were offered a more civilised test.

a higher number of young ladies are failing to turn up for their smear test this is no suprise to me as I suffered at the hands of a sadistic practice nurse but according to the police this is not uncommon as you have given your consent for the test so there is nothing you can do legally.

Edited September 6, 2014 by SHIRLI

[edge_of_the_map]

Hi Shirli, I am afraid the answer is complicated.

The test for cervical cancer is cheaper than treatment, and better for the individual so of course the health service wants all eligible women to be tested.

As you say, the current test is unpleasant, and if the practitioner is unsympathetic, can be traumatic. You should tell the practice this - they have options for supervision, retraining or replacing the person in question, and I believe if you want an improvement, you should complain to the people with the power to make changes. Unfortunately, at the moment this test is all there is, so you need to evaluate whether you would rather take the risk or the test.

Research costs money, and there are many different cancers and other ailments without a practical routine screening test of any kind. Funds for research are limited and need to be targeted where they will do the most good.

Cancer research is complex and development of a new test needs funding and advances in technology. This is where the issue gets political as the NHS doesn't have the money and those with the money don't want to spend it in this area.

It may be that the only place cervical cancer can be detected is in the cervix, and that there is no trace in the blood or other bodily fluids. If this is the case, I am afraid there may never be an alternative test.

[SHIRLI]

Hi Shirli, I am afraid the answer is complicated.

The test for cervical cancer is cheaper than treatment, and better for the individual so of course the health service wants all eligible women to be tested.

As you say, the current test is unpleasant, and if the practitioner is unsympathetic, can be traumatic. You should tell the practice this - they have options for supervision, retraining or replacing the person in question, and I believe if you want an improvement, you should complain to the people with the power to make changes. Unfortunately, at the moment this test is all there is, so you need to evaluate whether you would rather take the risk or the test.

Research costs money, and there are many different cancers and other ailments without a practical routine screening test of any kind. Funds for research are limited and need to be targeted where they will do the most good.

Cancer research is complex and development of a new test needs funding and advances in technology. This is where the issue gets political as the NHS doesn't have the money and those with the money don't want to spend it in this area.

It may be that the only place cervical cancer can be detected is in the cervix, and that there is no trace in the blood or other bodily fluids. If this is the case, I am afraid there may never be an alternative test.

 

 

 

 

 

 

GOOD AFTERNOON EDGE_OF_THE_MAP

 

 

thank you for your reply, your post sounds political, I have heard this all before from doctors who are paid a bonus for each of their patients they manage to persuade to have a smear test god forbid should they lose money,

I have complained to

 

 

 

1.the practice manager

2. n.h.s england

3.the police

4. the health ombudsman

 

 

you have not read my threads and posts.

 

 

cervical cancer cannot be diagnosed from a smear, only the virus which may cause cervical cancer in less than 0.1% of positive smear tests, read mumsnet.co.uk where there are plenty of posts from both patients telling their experiences which are gruesome and scientists who say a blood test may be possible it just takes women to speak out and no longer put up with what is barbaric and medival belonging in the dark ages. women are open to abuse and assault from bad tempered and sadistic nurses

Edited September 6, 2014 by SHIRLI

[BazzaS]

 

cervical cancer cannot be diagnosed from a smear, only the virus which may cause cervical cancer,

 

 

The smear test (in most labs) looks at cells (cytology) : if the cells look abnormal this may represent cancer or "pre-cancerous" changes.

 

Not all (but most ) cases of cervical cancer are due to one if the (many) Human Papilloma Viruses (HPV's)

 

The (cytology) smear test is not a test for "a virus". HPV infection is WAY more common than a "positive smear test".

 

There are PCR (or other NAAT) "high sensitivity " tests for HPV's

They aren't used as all they would do is create droves of "worried well" : Why use a test where many of the population would test positive but there would be little correlation with those who will actually go on to develop disease?

 

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Cervical-screening-test/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Is a good starting point.

 

Do you have any cites to peer-reviewed sources to support your contentions, which I find not accurate.

[ims21]

SHIRLI

 

I have edited a name out of a couple of your posts recently.

 

Please do not quote names on the forum.

 

Thank you.

[SHIRLI]

The smear test (in most labs) looks at cells (cytology) : if the cells look abnormal this may represent cancer or "pre-cancerous" changes.

 

Not all (but most ) cases of cervical cancer are due to one if the (many) Human Papilloma Viruses (HPV's)

 

The (cytology) smear test is not a test for "a virus". HPV infection is WAY more common than a "positive smear test".

 

There are PCR (or other NAAT) "high sensitivity " tests for HPV's

They aren't used as all they would do is create droves of "worried well" : Why use a test where many of the population would test positive but there would be little correlation with those who will actually go on to develop disease?

 

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Cervical-screening-test/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Is a good starting point.

 

Do you have any cites to peer-reviewed sources to support your contentions, which I find not accurate.

 

 

GOOD AFTERNOOON bazzeS

 

 

thank for your post, your profile does not mention if you are male or female pray tell as I have nailed my colours to the mast

 

 

yes I do have cites to peer reviewed sources to support my contentions and will include as soon as I have located them

[ALIGRUBS]

hi shirli

 

 

after reading your thread and the replies, they sound like male n.h.s executive that know nothing about the problems women find with smear tests, they think using political / medical sound bites makes everything okay. women must make a stand making it clear we demand a better test

[BazzaS]

hi shirli

 

 

after reading your thread and the replies, they sound like male n.h.s executive that know nothing about the problems women find with smear tests, they think using political / medical sound bites makes everything okay. women must make a stand making it clear we demand a better test

 

All well and good.

Equally, I demand a crystal ball to give me next week's lottery numbers.

 

Neither yet exist.

If I am male or female doesn't alter that.

If I am an NHS executive or not doesn't alter that.

 

I'd support a campaign for:

A) development of a better test, or

B) use of a better test once developed.

 

Until then, demanding a better test (or a "crystal ball for lottery numbers") when it doesn't yet exist : just makes you look a bit silly?

 

I'm male BTW.

I can only apologise that I'll never actually know what it is like to undergo a smear test. I didn't choose to have a Y chromosome, but I've ended up with one.

Does that mean I can't empathise? Does that mean males can never understand?? Can females never understand what having prostatism is like?

 

This shouldn't be about gender of respondents.

It should be about what is achievable and worth campaigning for : why dismiss any males who would support a reasonable campaign.

 

Being male doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to challenge wrong facts / disinformation / poor reasoning, even if it relates to a "womens' issue"

 

Semmelweis worked out that medical staff at deliveries of babies should wash their hands. He was male.

Kielland's forceps were invented by a male obstetrician.

They were male : are you saying you wouldn't consider them as having an input into Women's health because they were male?

 

Smear test : aka "Pap smear". You may say there needs to be a better test (agreed!), but until there is a better test, it is still saving women's lives.

Inventor : male or female?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgios_Papanikolaou

[Nystagmite]

Does the smear test detect other possible issues too?

[BazzaS]

Does the smear test detect other possible issues too?

 

The cytology will pick up the non-HPV cervical cancer / pre-cancer.

 

It will show some infections / inflammation : but presence of these will prevent reliable interpretation by cytology for cancer screening : this is one if the reasons why some women will be recalled for a further smear - not due to a problem being seen, but because they can't reliably say "clear" from that sample.

[Bandit127]

All well and good.

Equally, I demand a crystal ball to give me next week's lottery numbers.

 

Neither yet exist.

If I am male or female doesn't alter that.

If I am an NHS executive or not doesn't alter that.

 

I'd support a campaign for:

A) development of a better test, or

B) use of a better test once developed.

 

Until then, demanding a better test (or a "crystal ball for lottery numbers") when it doesn't yet exist : just makes you look a bit silly?

 

I'm make BTW.

I can only apologise that I'll never actually know what it is like to undergo a smear test.

Does that mean I can't empathise? Does that mean males can never understand?? Can females never understand what having prostatism is like?

 

This shouldn't be about gender of respondents.

It should be about what is achievable and worth campaigning for : why dismiss any males who would support a reasonable campaign.

 

Being male doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to challenge wrong facts / disinformation / poor reasoning, even if it relates to a "womens' issue"

Us males have to have our prostates checked as we get on. I think it might not be so invasive as a smear test but I think it is probably not far off in terms of unpleasantness.

 

However, I do think that if us males had to go through the full procedure of a cervical smear there may be a bit more focus on finding a more elegant solution to the problem.

 

I do know that the blood test for prostate cancer has a very low precision at the moment. Physical investigation is the next step in terms of precision.

 

However, I hope we can all agree that however distasteful the procedure it saves lives. And that more resource should be spent on finding precise alternatives to invasive physical examination.

[BazzaS]

Us males have to have our prostates checked as we get on. I think it might not be so invasive as a smear test but I think it is probably not far off in terms of unpleasantness.

 

However, I do think that if us males had to go through the full procedure of a cervical smear there may be a bit more focus on finding a more elegant solution to the problem.

 

I do know that the blood test for prostate cancer has a very low precision at the moment. Physical investigation is the next step in terms of precision.

 

However, I hope we can all agree that however distasteful the procedure it saves lives. And that more resource should be spent on finding precise alternatives to invasive physical examination.

 

I'm not seeing it as "an unpleasantness competition"

 

Instead : I object to a prejudice (pre-judging) that as a male I can't contribute to a reasoned discussion on women's' health.

[Guest]

shirli

 

are you thinking of something like this for eg as an alternative?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2612443/FDA-OKs-DNA-alternative-Pap-smear.html

[Bandit127]

I'm not seeing it as "an unpleasantness competition"

 

Instead : I object to a prejudice (pre-judging) that as a male I can't contribute to a reasoned discussion on women's' health.

This isn't a competition. I was hoping for some qualification via the unpleasantness to allow me to post on a women's topic as a man.

 

I thought I did OK and am prepared to be judged by it.

 

The point that we should be working on a better solution to the problems we all face remains valid and is the essence of what was in my mind if it did not come out in the words.

[BazzaS]

This isn't a competition. I was hoping for some qualification via the unpleasantness to allow me to post on a women's topic as a man.

 

I thought I did OK and am prepared to be judged by it.

 

The point that we should be working on a better solution to the problems we all face remains valid.

 

Exactly this.

[BazzaS]

Even if you've heard it described as you have described it?

Held your partner's hand as they have endured it?

Seen the effect on them?

 

Ahh, well, as my views "don't count" : you've just lost a potential ally.

You clearly have decided you speak for all women, and males don't understand, never will, and you don't need their help, support (and however well informed) input.

 

See above for Semmelweis, Kielland, and Papanikolaou.

 

Marginalising males merely because they lack the relevant anatomy isn't going to help your cause.

 

I also know the law relating to consent, specifically as it relates to medical procedures .... but what is the point of me making any contribution, as I'm only a male.

 

Misogyny is wrong.

I'm not convinced misandry is any more appealing.

Edited September 6, 2014 by ims21

[ims21]

I have unapproved two posts.

 

SHIRLI....we do not need graphic descriptions thank you.

 

If this does not get back to a more acceptable level the thread will be closed.

[BazzaS]

I have unapproved two posts.

 

SHIRLI....we do not need graphic descriptions thank you.

 

If this does not get back to a more acceptable level the thread will be closed.

 

Ims .... My post quoted Shirli's : I can understand you may have had to unapproved it for that reason.

If it needed unapproving on its own : apologies.

 

If my post didn't need unapproving on its own : can it be re-approved but with the quote of Shirli's post removed?

Or PM'd to me so that I can repost it without the quote?

 

I think it is still valid to discuss if males should be allowed to post to women's health topics ; if I can do so while remaining within CAG guidelines.....

[ims21]

BazzaS

 

I have approved it but have removed the quoted post.

[Guest]

shirli

 

are you thinking of something like this for eg as an alternative?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2612443/FDA-OKs-DNA-alternative-Pap-smear.html

 

no one any thoughts on this?

[BazzaS]

no one any thoughts on this?

 

Replied earlier up thread, Ford! (Prior to your post with the link); That reply was:

 

There are PCR (or other NAAT) "high sensitivity " tests for HPV's

They aren't used as all they would do is create droves of "worried well" : Why use a test where many of the population would test positive but there would be little correlation with those who will actually go on to develop disease?

[Guest]

Replied earlier up thread, Ford! (Prior to your post with the link); That reply was:

 

There are PCR (or other NAAT) "high sensitivity " tests for HPV's

They aren't used as all they would do is create droves of "worried well" : Why use a test where many of the population would test positive but there would be little correlation with those who will actually go on to develop disease?

 

 

ok seen it now (didnt see all posts, some deleted?), was just wondering. yes, yr view is in there.

anyone any other views?

ps shirli, am a bloke

[edge_of_the_map]

If you were referring to me - I am a female Microbiologist who does not work for the NHS.

[Guest]

If you were referring to me - I am a female Microbiologist who does not work for the NHS.

 

 

presume this isnt to me? but just to check.

[edge_of_the_map]

The discussion got a little personal yesterday Ford. One of the earlier posters said some of the replies sounded like male NHS executives. I felt that probably referred to me and I was just pointing out that I was neither. I am a scientist with first-hand knowledge of the difficulty of researching and implementing new methods.

When a question has been asked, it seems a little silly to reject any responses that sound like 'sound bites' or those from men.

The issue IS political because politics determines how much funding is available, who gets it and what they can spend it on. The issue is also complicated and it doesn't move the debate any further forward by slagging off the people who try to contribute to the discussion.