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    • First of all I've edited your post quite substantially. This is been done to make it more relevant – but also to make it more accessible. It is unhelpful to us and to other people who read this thread to find solid blocks of text that we have to negotiate. At the end of your post you ask if you need to get yourself a lawyer. If you did manage to find a lawyer who is prepared to help you with this, it would properly cost you at least £300 an hour. I'm quite certain that you would present your story to them in an accessible way in order to cut down costs because they would be charging you for every five minutes they spent. Everything here is free – and so as already said, it's not helpful to oblige us to spend extra time restructuring your posts. I understand that you declared the value of £500 but eventually you went on to bring a County Court claim for £1200. I'm afraid that you won't be able to recover £1200. It is clear the contract was for the delivery of an item which you valued at £500 when you arranged the delivery. Unfortunately you have helped yourself because you have incurred County Court costs based on a £1200 claim and the maximum you will be able to recover in terms of costs will be a pro rata figure based on a £500 claim. You said that you expected Hermes to act in good faith. Why? I think it is worth standing your ground and telling Hermes that you are prepared to go all the way to court – but at the same time I think you had better tell the mediator that you are prepared to give up your claim of £1200 and to fall back on the contracted figure of £500. This might give some Face to Hermes as they will think that they have managed to secure some kind of compromise by forcing you to reduce the amount of money you are after. The truth is that you wouldn't be able to get £1200 anyway so you aren't losing anything by agreeing to accept £500. However you should certainly insist that Hermes pays your costs – but be aware that you will only be able to get your costs on a £500 scale and not £1200. You can also tell Hermes that you want interest at 8% from the date they lost the parcel. However this will be 8% on £500 and frankly it is unlikely to be very much. You haven't told us when they actually lost the parcel. Once again, the interest might be something that you would be prepared to give up in order to get your £500 plus costs. I think that will be your best position. I hope you won't mind me saying but that the way that you have conducted this claim so far probably has brought comfort to Hermes because they understand that you are not particularly sure of your ground and this will make them feel more confident. For this reason I think your best interests would be to disengage from this action as quickly as you can – but not for less than £500 plus costs on that scale. Back to the question you asked at the end – if it goes to court then should you get a lawyer? It is most unlikely that you will be able to find a lawyer who is prepared to take this on. It's too trivial and it wouldn't pay them enough. The small claims rules mean that even if you won your case, you would not get your legal costs back and as I've already suggested, you would probably be paying something like about £300 per hour. I can imagine that if you found a lawyer to take it on – and even if that lawyer lost the case for you you would be looking at a bill of £1500 at least. If you won the case, then you would get your £500 and you would still have to pay the lawyers fees. I wish you very good luck. I think you are in a good position if you are prepared to accept £500. However, do be aware that Hermes might quite recently ask you for proof of the value of your loss – and you better be ready with all the bills or other evidence. Please keep us updated.
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Garage Refuse to give my car back


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Hi,

2 months ago i sent my car to a garage to get a gear stick and steering bush done i had just bourght the car cheap as i knew it had the problems.The garage Decided to do a mot on it and came back with faults so they fixed them long story short bill was 900 pound it should of been 300 i didnt ask for any extra work to be done.

 

I had not heard from the garage for weeks and just put it down to parts taking there time coming through. Anyway i got a bill in the post out the blue.

 

well all this was happening i was unlucky to be declaired bankrupt i have put the garage debt in with the bankruptcy so its been wiped . Now the garage refuse to hand my car back to me even though the official reciver has told me i can keep it as its worth under 1500 pound.

 

Not sure what to do next as the debt been taken in to bankruptcy so i dont anyone anything anymore so how can they refuse to give me it back?

 

DO i need to contact the police or trading standards

 

Thanks in advance any help or advice would be great

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Sorry to hear you've been declared bankrupt. that's s**t news for sure.

 

 

I think they can keep the car until you pay for the repairs to be quite honest - and if you don't pay for the repairs within a 'reasonable' time they can dispose of the car to get their money. They are supposed to send you any balance, but you can bet your life they will construct it all so there isn't one.

 

 

Sorry

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The debt was covered in the bankrupcy so I dont owe them anything anymore the official reciver has told me that they must give me the car back but they just wont just wish I had a spare key as its just parked in there car park

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The debt was covered in the bankrupcy so I dont owe them anything anymore the official reciver has told me that they must give me the car back but they just wont just wish I had a spare key as its just parked in there car park

Perhaps you could ask the Official Receiver to have a word with the garage in question. After all, I'm sure the garage will be only too pleased to have done all the work on your car and not get paid, only to be told they now have to give it back to you without ever being paid for what they've done. I'm sure I'd be over the moon with that one.

 

If they have to give you the car back without getting paid, they might take back off any new parts they have put on it off

Quite. The OP may find that he gets his car back, but that it's in kit form.

 

 

Whilst I sympathise with the OP regarding being made bankrupt, especially if they have had it forced upon them, the OP has to realise that not getting paid for work undertaken may put others in the same situation. Staff still have to be paid, parts still have to be paid for, and I'm sure the electric company and the phone company will want a slice of the pie too.

 

If the garage doesn't get paid, how do they pay their bills?

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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I think the op is hoping for too much here,getting a load of work done on a car becoming bankrupt then getting the car with all the work done to it back,for free,lol,its a great idea,wish I had thought of it,yeah,the garage will not be happy,i wouldn't give the car back either

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If it's in the garage terms that vehicles may not be taken away until repairs are paid for then it doesn't matter what the official receiver says does it?

 

 

The thing is, the garage have the car, the OP doesn't.

 

 

So either pay up or lose the car is the only way.

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Wait, removing all emotion and jusgements aside.

 

Garage undertakes Work on car and charges Debt A

 

OP goes bankrupt and Debt A is included in the bankruptcy hearings.

 

As a result Debt A is wiped. No longer exists.

 

Car belongs to OP. The debt has been wiped.

 

Therefore like it or not and ignoring the morals of the case the Car and the parts belong to the OP.

 

The Bankruptcy did not REVERSE or cancel the contract. It did however remove the LIABILITY. Reduced it to Zero.

 

On a legal stand point only, you might have to follow the pre court action protocol and seek recourse through the small claims court for the value of the car. However any compensation you might gain could be taken by the receiver against debts that have been wiped. (or something like that)

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Wait, removing all emotion and jusgements aside.

 

Garage undertakes Work on car and charges Debt A

 

OP goes bankrupt and Debt A is included in the bankruptcy hearings.

 

As a result Debt A is wiped. No longer exists.

 

Car belongs to OP. The debt has been wiped.

 

Therefore like it or not and ignoring the morals of the case the Car and the parts belong to the OP.

 

The Bankruptcy did not REVERSE or cancel the contract. It did however remove the LIABILITY. Reduced it to Zero.

 

On a legal stand point only, you might have to follow the pre court action protocol and seek recourse through the small claims court for the value of the car. However any compensation you might gain could be taken by the receiver against debts that have been wiped. (or something like that)

 

 

Be lucky with that one... all they will do is take their parts off the car, if it is in their terms and conditions that the parts remain their property until paid for they will do this. Or they'll dispose of it.

 

 

 

 

LEGALLY...they might not be allowed to do so. But as I said above., they've got the car, the OP hasn't.

 

 

It's either pay up or lose it.

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Wait, removing all emotion and jusgements aside.

 

Garage undertakes Work on car and charges Debt A

 

OP goes bankrupt and Debt A is included in the bankruptcy hearings.

 

As a result Debt A is wiped. No longer exists.

 

Car belongs to OP. The debt has been wiped.

 

Therefore like it or not and ignoring the morals of the case the Car and the parts belong to the OP.

 

The Bankruptcy did not REVERSE or cancel the contract. It did however remove the LIABILITY. Reduced it to Zero.

 

On a legal stand point only, you might have to follow the pre court action protocol and seek recourse through the small claims court for the value of the car. However any compensation you might gain could be taken by the receiver against debts that have been wiped. (or something like that)

 

Car belongs to the OR not the OP.

 

The OR may allow the OP to keep it, or purchase it at the conclusion of the bankruptcy.

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But the garage may recover some of the money owed them under the bankruptcy wouldnt they?

 

They cannot legally keep the car, it isn't theirs. They should just remove the parts the OP asked for, the MOT etc was unauthorised so its their own fault. I'd be tempted to report this to the police as he's being deprived of his own property.

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But the garage may recover some of the money owed them under the bankruptcy wouldnt they?

 

They cannot legally keep the car, it isn't theirs. They should just remove the parts the OP asked for, the MOT etc was unauthorised so its their own fault. I'd be tempted to report this to the police as he's being deprived of his own property.

 

 

 

No they can't keep the car. If it's in their terms and conditions that all accounts must be settled before they will release the vehicle then they can dispose of it.

 

 

And then they take their unpaid bill out of the money they get and send the owner the balance.

 

 

That's what should happen.

 

 

What WILL happen though is that they will ensure there is no balance left over, or simply remove their parts from the car rendering it worthless.

 

 

The law is the law, but possession counts for quite a lot. Put yourself in the garage owner's position. Would you just willingly hand it back?

 

 

Of course not, and neither would anyone else.

 

 

I cannot foresee any circumstances where the op can get his car back in running order unless the account is settled.

 

 

The official receiver won't be too bothered about it either, they have far too much on their plate.

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Yes I understand this. Normally, the garage have a lien on the car till the bills paid. However as they've carried out unauthorised work they, if there was no bankruptcy, would only be entitled to remove the authorised parts. They could not chase payment for the unauthorised work and they could not dispose of the car.

 

A lien does not confer an automatic right to sell the car, this would need a court order.

 

No they can't keep the car. If it's in their terms and conditions that all accounts must be settled before they will release the vehicle then they can dispose of it.

 

 

And then they take their unpaid bill out of the money they get and send the owner the balance.

 

 

That's what should happen.

 

 

What WILL happen though is that they will ensure there is no balance left over, or simply remove their parts from the car rendering it worthless.

 

 

The law is the law, but possession counts for quite a lot. Put yourself in the garage owner's position. Would you just willingly hand it back?

 

 

Of course not, and neither would anyone else.

 

 

I cannot foresee any circumstances where the op can get his car back in running order unless the account is settled.

 

 

The official receiver won't be too bothered about it either, they have far too much on their plate.

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Guys. Read the op again. He never asked for the work to be done. The garage took it upon themselves to do it. Its the garages problem. Not the ops.

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I agree, when our car needs work, our reputable garage provides an estimate and if after looking at the car the estimate is incorrect or more work is deemed necessary, they phone and ask if we want to continue. They don't just do what they want.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the garage is only owed £300. They cannot sell without a court order and if they obtained one they'd have to show the extra £600 of work was authorised. Once sold subject to an order, the receiver could claim all the sale proceeds and put it in the bankruptcy pot. They receiver and the OP for that matter, could challenge the sale if it is thought the garage didn't obtain the right price or if any fees were to high.

 

I'm not quite sure what the garage is trying to achieve. They're just stuck with a car they cant legally sell .

 

The receiver has said that the op can keep the car so so the op should consider going to small claims court for recovery. The court could decide that it should be returned and the garage will have to stand in line with other creditors.

 

 

 

Guys. Read the op again. He never asked for the work to be done. The garage took it upon themselves to do it. Its the garages problem. Not the ops.
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I agree, when our car needs work, our reputable garage provides an estimate and if after looking at the car the estimate is incorrect or more work is deemed necessary, they phone and ask if we want to continue. They don't just do what they want.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the garage is only owed £300. They cannot sell without a court order and if they obtained one they'd have to show the extra £600 of work was authorised. Once sold subject to an order, the receiver could claim all the sale proceeds and put it in the bankruptcy pot. They receiver and the OP for that matter, could challenge the sale if it is thought the garage didn't obtain the right price or if any fees were to high.

 

I'm not quite sure what the garage is trying to achieve. They're just stuck with a car they cant legally sell .

 

The receiver has said that the op can keep the car so so the op should consider going to small claims court for recovery. The court could decide that it should be returned and the garage will have to stand in line with other creditors.

 

 

 

Quite right and no doubt legally correct.

 

 

But before anyone apart from the repairer touches it you can bet your house they will remove all parts they have fitted making the car virtually worthless.

 

 

There are two worlds. The legal world, and the real world.

 

 

We live in the latter.

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Erm, I live in the real world.

 

I've already they can remove the parts fitted. They should do so and give the car back and stop messing about. They should then contact the receiver and see where they are in the pecking order of creditors. Let's not feel to sorry for a garage who carried out unauthorised work. Its a tactic employed by a lot of garages to inflate bills.

 

How do you know the car will be virtally worthless? Just because a car requires repairs doesn't mean anything.

 

 

Quite right and no doubt legally correct.

 

 

But before anyone apart from the repairer touches it you can bet your house they will remove all parts they have fitted making the car virtually worthless.

 

 

There are two worlds. The legal world, and the real world.

 

 

We live in the latter.

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You dont know the value of the car.

 

Plus some garages cost a hell of a lot more that others for the same job. Take main dealerships for one.

 

We were once in a hurry and obtained a quote from a nearer garage then our usual one and the estimate was unbelievable. Took it to our normal garage and saved hundreds of pounds (and I do mean hundreds).

 

QUOTE=oddjobbob;4603236]didn't see that you' put that my apologies. yes they should do that.

 

 

if it needed £900 to get thru thre mot its not going to be worth a lot though is it?

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OK fine, but if they remove the parts he only owes for labour for the authorised work which will have to be dealt for as part of the bankruptcy.

 

He might find a cheaper garage and think its worth keeping it on the road. There are plenty of people who can't afford another car so pay for garage bills even though for a few more £ they could buy another one. Plus he could sorn it until after the bankruptcy and the sell it for scrap. The point is, they should just give it back.

 

the op has already said it's under £1500.

 

 

" the official reciver has told me i can keep it as its worth under 1500 pound."

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Something is missing here, Garages don't usually do £600 extra work to car without knowing if you can pay for it

 

Also Bankruptcies don't just happen without warning, you usually know they are coming

 

It would be easy to just say do what needs doing to the car, and then throw the bill into the bankruptcy with the hope of getting the car fixed for free

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something is missing here, garages don't usually do £600 extra work to car without knowing if you can pay for it

 

 

indeed

 

also bankruptcies don't just happen without warning, you usually know they are coming

 

 

 

very much indeed

it would be easy to just say do what needs doing to the car, and then throw the bill into the bankruptcy with the hope of getting the car fixed for free

 

 

very doubtful indeed

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Something is missing here, Garages don't usually do £600 extra work to car without knowing if you can pay for it

 

Also Bankruptcies don't just happen without warning, you usually know they are coming

 

It would be easy to just say do what needs doing to the car, and then throw the bill into the bankruptcy with the hope of getting the car fixed for free

 

I agree with this post 100%!

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