First Plus - going for repo **WON**

[2me2u2]

I am still trying to sort out my issues with First Plus and

on top of all that they have now filed for possession of my property,

which is grossly unfair in view of the circumstances surrounding this case.

 

 

The court Hearing is due on the 14th February 2011 and

I would be grateful for any help that you can provide in this case.

 

 

I am prepared to take this case to the highest body as losing my home due to this court action is not an option that will be taken lightly.

 

7th November 2004 I took out the loan with First Plus for £21,000

and was told upon inception of the loan that I could not have the loan

unless I took out payment protection insurance for the sum of £4,185.30 thus totalling the full loan to £25,185.30.

 

I fought this and

 

 

on the 16th December 2009

I received a letter from First Plus stating that not only would they be refunding the initial amount of £4,185.30

they would be also pay the interest that had been applied to my account the sum of £1,959.69.

 

 

This was broken down in terms of £1,058.67 for the arrears that were on the account

and a premium to be paid to me for the sum of £855.26, which was paid via a cheque.

 

24 January 2010 I wrote to first plus and asked for a settlement balance to ensure that the £4,185.30 had been written off my account.

I also disputed the amount to be paid in light of the fact that this sizable amount had been removed of the initial loan,

to this date I have yet to receive any confirmation of this and my loan is still based on the old CCA

 

I lost my job for six months but still managed make three contractual payments

then I was reinstated in August 2010.

 

 

I have paid every month my £195 contractual payment and £15 off the arrears,

but I missed one month due to changing banks and out of the six months I have paid five months.

 

On the 15th January 2011 I received a letter dated 10th January 2011 from Eversheds

confirming that they were still taking me to court for possession proceedings for a suspended possession order.

 

 

In addition to that I received a particulars of claim for possession stated that the full amount owing was £21,919.08

and the arrears was £1,281.18 both amounts are blatantly wrong.

 

 

The original sum was £25,185.30 minus £4,185.30, which equals £21,000.

I have also paid in the region of £15,600 over the past six years and the amount is more than I borrowed.

And all I have missed three payments during 2010 which amount to £630 not £1,287 as stated in their particulars of claim.

 

I appreciate that this is a long one but I would be very grateful for any information and intervention that can be offered.

 

Thanks

2me2u2

[2me2u2]

24 January 2010 I wrote to first plus and asked for a settlement balance to ensure that the £4,185.30 had been written off my account. I also disputed the amount to be paid in light of the fact that this sizable amount had been removed of the initial loan, to this date I have yet to receive any confirmation of this and my loan is still based on the old CCA

 

I lost my job for six months but still managed make three contractual payments then I was reinstated in August 2010. I have paid every month my £195 contractual payment and £15 off the arrears, but I missed one month due to changing banks and out of the six months I have paid five months.

 

On the 15th January 2011 I received a letter dated 10th January 2011 from Eversheds confirming that they were still taking me to court for possession proceedings for a suspended possession order. In addition to that I received a particulars of claim for possession stated that the full amount owing was £21,919.08 and the arrears was £1,281.18 both amounts are blatantly wrong. The original sum was £25,185.30 minus £4,185.30, which equals £21,000. I have also paid in the region of £15,600 over the past six years and the amount is more than I borrowed. And all I have missed three payments during 2010 which amount to £630 not £1,287 as stated in their particulars of claim.

[2me2u2]

On the 15th January 2011 I received a letter dated 10th January 2011 from Eversheds

confirming that they were still taking me to court for possession proceedings for a suspended possession order.

 

 

In addition to that I received a particulars of claim for possession stated that the full amount owing was £21,919.08

and the arrears was £1,281.18 both amounts are blatantly wrong.

 

 

The original sum was £25,185.30 minus £4,185.30, which equals £21,000.

 

 

I have also paid in the region of £15,600 over the past six years and the amount is more than I borrowed.

 

 

And all I have missed three payments during 2010 which amount to £630 not £1,287 as stated in their particulars of claim.

 

I lost my job for six months but still managed make three contractual payments then I was reinstated in August 2010.

 

 

I have paid every month my £195 contractual payment and £15 off the arrears,

but I missed one month due to changing banks and out of the six months I have paid five months.

 

Today I received a new particulars of claim stating that they were going for a full possession.

 

 

I don't get it, I am now paying my contractual payment and some money off the arrears.

 

I am truly scared, I have worked too hard to lose my home and I dont know where to turn.

Edited February 9, 2011 by 2me2u2

[ukaviator]

Hi

 

A suspended possession order means that a court has ruled that you may remain in your property on condition that you make payments towards the arrears monthly, So now the lender issues court proceedings for possession of your property because have have missed the payment in August.You can defend the action by going to court and promising to pay the arrears over a period of time. You should start preparing your case by getting ready an income / expediture sheet, also do you have a statement from the mortgage company? there maybe charges added to the account you maybe able to claim back

 

A couple more questions:

 

How long is the mortgage term?

 

Are you on your own or is the mortgage in joint names?

 

The team have asked Ell_enn to look in on your thread, she has dealt with a lot of these cases.

[Killerschick]

Hi 2me2u2,

 

Sorry you haven't had a response before,

I appreciate you're in a very scary situation but you are a long way from losing your home

and you can still get a suspended possession order regardless of what Eversheds' clients want.

 

With regards to your dispute about the sum outstanding,

you don't say where your figures come from so it's not really possible to comment.

 

 

The same goes for the discrepancy in the arrears figure calculated by you and that quoted in the particulars of claim from Eversheds.

 

 

A starting point might be to make a subject access request or SAR to the lender asking for a full breakdown

of the transactions on the account since inception.

 

 

It may be that the arrears figure and amount owing include fees you weren't aware of or perhaps additional interest on the arrears.

 

 

Without more information it is difficult to determine whether there is really a problem.

 

You can raise your dispute about the arrears figure in court and this might get you an adjournment,

if, for example, you have got evidence that you have made more payments than the lender has credited to your account.

 

 

However, the way you have worded things in your post is extremely confusing and might diminish your credibility in the eyes of the court.

 

 

You say the arrears figure of £1281.18 is blatantly wrong without any explanation as to why.

 

 

You say the arrears should only be 3 months but go on to say you were out of work for 6 months

and made 3 payments then made 5 payments in 6 months which would amount to 4 missed payments in 12 months.

 

 

You also say the contractual payment is £195 but the 3 months arrears should be £630 which is also contradictory

as 3 x £195 = £585. Hopefully you can see that if you do want to raise this point you will need to be clearer

and have records of everything you have paid.

 

From what you say, you are now in a position to maintain your mortgage or loan payments plus something towards the arrears.

I suggest you put together a financial statement or income and expenditure breakdown to work out exactly how much you can afford.

 

 

Once you have worked this out you can put your proposal to Eversheds who may or may not agree to accept

your proposal as the basis for a suspended possession order.

 

 

Even if they do accept your proposal and say they will arrange for an order to be granted on those terms

I would still attend court on Monday to make sure the message gets to their local representative and the order is made.

 

If they don't accept your proposal do not be bullied into paying more just to avoid going to court.

Go to court and put your case before the judge for them to make the decision backed up by your financial statement.

If possible take evidence of your income and outgoings and try to make sure that your proposal will clear the arrears

within the remaining term of your loan,

 

 

even based on the arrears figure quoted in the particulars of claim e.g. to repay £1281.18 over 5 years

would be £21.36 10 years would be £10.68 per month, over 15 years £7.12, 20 years £5.34 etc.

 

 

This is because the judge has discretion to grant you time to pay arrears over a reasonable period

which has been defined by case law (Cheltenham & Gloucester v Norgan {1996}

– worth making a note of)

as being up to the remaining to term of the loan.

 

 

Eversheds do not decide whether an outright or suspended possession order is granted the judge does.

 

Just to reassure you that possession hearings are in private, are relatively informal

- usually in district judges chambers (like small hearing rooms rather than great big court rooms)

and judges are usually willing to listen to people who attend.

 

 

If you are going, make sure you get there in plenty of time (but be prepared to wait, you might want to take a drink and/or snacks)

and book in with the usher so you get called when the judge is ready for you.

 

Good luck KC

 

I see ukaviator got in there while I was still typing - hope you still find something of use KC

Edited February 9, 2011 by Killerschick
I'm a slow typist and ukaviator got a response in before me!

[2me2u2]

All I can say is thank you both to responding to my post I have spent the whole day looking through the forums ringing up debt companies and crying hysterically.

 

I am sorry that the posting is very dis-jointed I am all over the place. However after reading some of the postings on this site I feel a little better well at least I have stop crying and I am trying to put things into perspective.

 

The full story is as follows:

 

The events of this case are as follows are:

 

7th November 2004 I took out the loan with First Plus for £21,000

and was told upon inception of the loan that I could not have the loan unless

I took out payment protection insurance for the sum of £4,185.30 thus totalling the full loan to £25,185.30.

 

25th August 09, I sent a letter to First Plus asking for the contributions for the payment protection insurance

to be reimbursed as they were wrongly applied to my account

 

11th October 09, I filed a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman

 

24th November 09, I received a letter from First Plus stating that they were upholding my complaint

and a full refund of £4,185.30 would be applied to my account (I would now owe £21,000 as it was taken off the full loan amount).

This was signed and sent back to them.

 

16th December 09, I received a letter from First Plus stating that not only would they be refunding the initial amount of £4,185.30

they would be also pay the interest that had been applied to my account the sum of £1,959.69.

This was broken down in terms of £1,058.67 for the arrears that were on the account

and a premium to be paid to me for the sum of £855.26, which was paid via a cheque

 

18th December 09, I received a letter stating that my new repayments were £195.05

 

24 January 10, I wrote to first plus and asked for a settlement balance to ensure that the £4,185.30 had been written off my account.

I also disputed the amount to be paid in light of the fact that this sizable amount had been removed of the initial loan,

to this date I have yet to receive any confirmation of this

 

Jan/February 10, I stopped payments in view of the lack of information given to me,

however I was advised to resume payment and to continue with my dispute with First Plus.

I resumed payment in March 10 the amount owing to date was £780.20

I made a payment of £205.05 the total balance was £575.15.

 

19th April 10, the amount owing was £575.15 plus my contractual payment of £195.05 totalling £770.20

again I made a payment of £205.05 the balance was £565.15.

 

17th May 10, the amount owing on my account was £565.15 plus my contractual amount of £195.05 totalling £760.20

again I made a payment of £210.00the balance was £550.20.

 

17th June 10, the amount owing was £550.20 plus my contractual payment of £195.05 totalling £745.25

again I made a payment of £210 the balance was £535.25

 

17th July 10 the amount owing was £535.25 plus my contractual payment of £195.05 totalling £730.30

again I made a payment of £210 the balance was £520.30.

 

17th August 10, the amount owing was £520.30 plus my contractual payment of £195.05 totalling £715.35

again I made a payment of £210 the balance was £505.35.

 

17th September 10, the amount owing was £505.35 plus my contractual payment of £195.05 totalling £700.40

again I made a payment of £210 the balance was £490.40

 

17th October 10, the amount owing was £490.40 plus my contractual payment of £195.05 totalling £685.45

I did not make this payment due to problems with my bank?

 

17th November 10, the amount owing was £685.45 plus my contractual payment of £195.05 totalling £880.50

again I made a payment of £210 the balance was £670.50.

 

6th December 10, First Plus wrote to me asking for a common financial statement, which they received,

and the in due course responded acknowledging the letter dated 6th December 10.

 

17th December 10 the amount owing was £670.50 plus my contractual payment of £195.05 totalling £865.55

again I made a payment of £210 the balance was £655.55

 

On the 7th January 2011 I received a letter dated 5th January 2011 from Eversheds stating that the proposal to pay £210 per month

has been referred to their client for consideration and they will inform me of their clients’ instructions in due course.

 

On the 7th January 2011 I received a letter dated 5th January 2011 from Eversheds stating that they were going to accept

my repayment proposals £14.95 per month, along with an incorrect breakdown of the payments made

and owing on my account, however, they were still taking me to court.

 

17th January 2011 the amount owing was £655.55 plus my contractual payment of £195.05 totalling £850.60

again I made a payment of £210 the balance was £640.60.

 

I have taken the loan out over 25 years.

The mortgage is in my sole name and I live on my own with my son who is a student.

 

I appreciate that this is a long reply. But I am desperate to keep my home.

 

Once again thank you.

 

2me2u

[caro]

There's a budget sheet template attached for you here.

 

Budget Sheet.xls

 

It's important to complete this so that you can show the judge what you can afford to pay. Make sure that you include everything.

 

One thing that jumps out at me is that without the PPI this loan was for under £25,000 so I'm not convinced that it should be secured against your property. Was there a CCA at all?

[2me2u2]

Thank you Caro,

 

As it goes I have done and income and expenditure form which had been compiled by the CAB and I sent a copy to al the people I owe money to including First Plus.

and they accepted my payment proposals.

 

I dont know where I stand in relation to the CCA as I still have the original sheet.

 

Which states it is a Credit Agreement (Incorporating Legal Charge)

 

and it states:

Amount of Advance: £21,000

'Optional Payment Protection Premium' £4,185.30

Total Loan £25,000

 

Monthly Interest rate 0.716%

APR 8.9%

 

The PPI was supposedly refunded but I have had no new CCA and the particulars of claim state that they are seeking full repayment of £25,185

[caro]

Thank you Caro,

 

As it goes I have done and income and expenditure form which had been compiled by the CAB and I sent a copy to al the people I owe money to including First Plus.

and they accepted my payment proposals.

 

I dont know where I stand in relation to the CCA as I still have the original sheet.

 

Which states it is a Credit Agreement (Incorporating Legal Charge)

 

and it states:

Amount of Advance: £21,000

'Optional Payment Protection Premium' £4,185.30

Total Loan £25,000

 

Monthly Interest rate 0.716%

APR 8.9%

 

The PPI was supposedly refunded but I have had no new CCA and the particulars of claim state that they are seeking full repayment of £25,185

 

I assume you didn't actually have the PPI back yourself and it was meant to be taken off the balance. Bearing that in mind and all the payments you've made the claim is clearly wrong.

 

Given that you have a letter stating they accept your payment proposalss only a few days before the claim, and the amount really owing is minimal, I really don't think you need to worry about your home.

 

I agree that you must go to court to make sure that your side of things is put, but from what you say you are holding all the cards, and it's down to First Plus to provide accurate figures as killerschick said.

[2me2u2]

Thank you for your reply Caro,

 

I have read somewhere today that if first plus have failed to supply the figures despite being asked three times then they are in breach of the CCA act, and the fact the the original CCA in which PPI was wrongly applied is incorrect, is it deemed an unfair agreement that is unenforceable. Is this correct?

 

2me2u

[caro]

Thank you for your reply Caro,

 

I have read somewhere today that if first plus have failed to supply the figures despite being asked three times then they are in breach of the CCA act, and the fact the the original CCA in which PPI was wrongly applied is incorrect, is it deemed an unfair agreement that is unenforceable. Is this correct?

 

2me2u

 

Not an easy question to answer. In theory I would say yes as it was taken out in 2004, but in practice the courts don't necessarily seem to see things that way and think people are trying to avoid their debts. We have the claims management companies to thank for that IMHO.

 

Are you saying it was an agreement under the CCA in the first place then?

[caro]

Just realised I misread your last post and thought you said you asked for a copy of the agreement, but you said you asked for figures 3 times. I'm afraid I don't know if it's a breach of the CCA act, but my question stands about if it is an agreement with a CCA.

 

If so, how has there come to be a suspended possession order?

[jane1703]

Hi,

 

This happened to me a few years ago. I cant offer you any legal advice, but a bit of moral support. I went to court to defend the suspended possession order, the court gave my mortgage company a suspsended possession order for one year. As long as you are able to maintain payments for the period stated then they will not be able to apply for full possession ie - take your house. I was advised to pay off any arrears before I went to court, which if you can do/or have will show willing to the Judge.

 

Please dont be frightened about going to court, it is an unreal situation for people like us, but for Judges and frikking dca's its a way of life. Plus DCA's will get much more out of it if you dont go to defend and this is their angle - they hope that you will be afraid to go to court and by default they win.

 

Be brave and hold your head up, we all get into difficulty and luckily we have the sanctuary of CAG where we have support from kind people

[Ell-enn]

Did you return the N11M defence papers to the court?

[2me2u2]

Wow thank you all, and thanks to CAG I am feeling stronger by the day, so I am going to fight this all the way.

 

I did fill in the N11M on line and sent in a papercopy and I have mixed feelings about this as it had my defence in it. I received a letter yesterday from Eversheds stating that they are going to address the deduction of the PPI in court, a thus making them seem reasonable and me a a hopeless individual who just wont pay her bills.

 

In relation to the CCA I have to hold my hands up and say I need help with it, today I will black out all the personal information and scan it in.

 

Once again thanks to you all.

 

2me2u

[Ell-enn]

Can you post up what you wrote in Q.27 of the defence form that you filled in on line (it's probably best to ring the court and see if they have received it) we may need to do a more detailed statement for you to take to court with you

[Ell-enn]

Can you post up what you wrote in Q.27 of the defence form that you filled in on line (it's probably best to ring the court and see if they have received it) we may need to do a more detailed statement for you to take to court with you

 

Can you answer this please

[caro]

2me, I think the fact that they are going for possession suggests that the CCA has already been enforced by the court. Did you receive any paperwork about that before?

 

The thing to concentrate on for now is your defence form if you could answer Ell-enn's question about that.

[2me2u2]

My answer to question 27 was as follows:

 

I initially got into debt because I was suspended from work and then the department became disbanded.

I tried to make intermediate payments but was unable to make the regular payments,

I did try and negotiate with First Plus but through blame on both sides the agreement was not upheld,

nevertheless I informed First Plus from the outset of my difficulties.

I also tried to consolidate my mortgages into one however First Plus would not provide me with an end balance.

 

This will cause extreme hardship because I would not only lose my home I would lose my job too.

My son and I will be rendered homeless, as we have no immediate family or friends.

When I took out the loan I was in regular employment and due to unforeseen circumstances I was suspended,

 

 

on one occasion because First Plus bombarded my work place with calls.

I have since been reinstated all be it in another department.

 

 

My son currently lives with me he goes to University in Manchester but he cannot afford to live in halls.

 

Secondly, the very nature of my new job means that I have to be able to manage any issues that I have in regards to debt.

I believe that since I have been reinstated and am in regular employment I have addressed my debt problems

 

 

I have been to the Citizens Advice Bureau drafted a common financial statement and written to all my creditors

and made proposals for paying off the arrears First Plus being one of the creditors.

 

 

I have made four consistent payments payable via standing order as First Plus have a habit of going into my account as and when the chose to.

[2me2u2]

I have worked out all the payments required against all the payments made please see the following:

 

Exactly as I thought £641.00 in arrears.

Calculations all of the calculations.xls

[2me2u2]

2me, I think the fact that they are going for possession suggests that the CCA has already been enforced by the court. Did you receive any paperwork about that before?

 

The thing to concentrate on for now is your defence form if you could answer Ell-enn's question about that.

 

 

This is the first time court has been mentioned at all!!!!

 

Thank all for your help in this matter I cant seem to think about anything else at the moment.

[2me2u2]

The court has passed on my defence to Eversheds who have acknowledged it and have stated that they will respond accordingly.

 

2me2u

[Ell-enn]

I understand that the court send a copy of your defence to Eversheds but what exactly was written in Q.27 of the N11M defence form. You may need to take an up to date defence statement with you on Monday if there is anything missing from the defence you have already submitted.

 

Can you please type up what was in Q.27

[2me2u2]

My answer to question 27 was as follows:

 

 

I initially got into debt because I was suspended from work and then the department became disbanded. I tried to make intermediate payments but was unable to make the regular payments, I did try and negotiate with First Plus but through blame on both sides the agreement was not upheld, nevertheless I informed First Plus from the outset of my difficulties. I also tried to consolidate my mortgages into one however First Plus would not provide me with an end balance.

 

This will cause extreme hardship because I would not only lose my home I would lose my job too. My son and I will be rendered homeless, as we have no immediate family or friends. When I took out the loan I was in regular employment and due to unforeseen circumstances I was suspended, on one occasion because First Plus bombarded my work place with calls. I have since been reinstated all be it in another department. My son currently lives with me he goes to University in Manchester but he cannot afford to live in halls.

Secondly, the very nature of my new job means that I have to be able to manage any issues that I have in regards to debt. I believe that since I have been reinstated and am in regular employment I have addressed my debt problems I have been to the Citizens Advice Bureau drafted a common financial statement and written to all my creditors and made proposals for paying off the arrears First Plus being one of the creditors. I have made four consistent payments payable via standing order as First Plus have a habit of going into my account as and when the chose to.

 

 

I am not sure if I helped my case but this was my answer. Thanks Ell en

 

2me2u2

[Ell-enn]

How much are you offering to pay towards the arrears each month ?

 

As you are disputing the arrears amount, it would be helpful if you took a copy of your payments calculation to the hearing. I can draft a statement for you to hand to the judge along with that ?