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Hi all,

 

unfortunately my company has gone insolvent due to a larger company going under on us

and obviously we can not afford to pay creditors!

 

im sure you have heard this many times,

 

my question is one particular builders merchant has sent me a copy of a ''credit application form'' with my signature

 

but also sent me a 2nd page and at the bottom that states ''Directors Guarantee'' which i can not remember seeing nor signing..!!

 

is this valid?

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Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

 

Welcome to CAG drewalan ....advice should be on its way shortly.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Hi all, unfortunately my company has gone insolvent due to a larger company going under on us and obviously we can not afford to pay creditors! im sure you have heard this many times, my question is one particular builders merchant has sent me a copy of a ''credit application form'' with my signature but also sent me a 2nd page and at the bottom that states ''Directors Guarantee'' which i can not remember seeing nor signing..!! is this valid?

 

Has the second page got your signature on it?

If so, do you think you signed it and have forgotten, or are you claiming it is a forgery?

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Has the second page got your signature on it?

If so, do you think you signed it and have forgotten, or are you claiming it is a forgery?

 

Thank you for the reply, no the second page has not got my signature on!

Edited by drewalan
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Without your signature they have no evidence that you have ever seen or agreed to the terms of that second page. As the (potential) claimant, it's entirely up to them to prove that you did, not for you to prove that you didn't. A simple 'never seen that page before therefore not liable' should be sufficient.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Without your signature they have no evidence that you have ever seen or agreed to the terms of that second page. As the (potential) claimant, it's entirely up to them to prove that you did, not for you to prove that you didn't. A simple 'never seen that page before therefore not liable' should be sufficient.

 

Thank you for the reply ''reallymadwoman'' it sums up what i thought :)

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You're welcome.

 

You may have to be quite firm in sticking to your guns and not getting involved in letter tennis,

a tactic sometimes employed in an effort to wear someone down until they'll agree to anything to put an end to it.

 

If you get a response you might want to write one more letter stating that in the absence of your signature on a personal guarantee

you are not prepared to enter into any further correspondence on the matter,

then ignore them unless they actually issue a court claim.

 

Of course you will also want everything in writing and you will know you're under no obligation to speak to anyone on the phone.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Your welcome.

You may have to be quite firm in sticking to your guns and not getting involved in letter tennis, a tactic sometimes employed in an effort to wear someone down until they'll agree to anything to put an end to it. If you get a response you might want to write one more letter stating that in the absence of your signature on a personal guarantee you are not prepared to enter into any further correspondence on the matter, then ignore them unless they actually issue a court claim.

Of course you will also want everything in writing and you will know you're under no obligation to speak to anyone on the phone.

 

Thank you Reallymadwomen, when you say in writing most correspondence are sent via email will this still count as been documented or do you think i should actually write a letter and sign it..?

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In this instance I think a proper letter is called for - you might at some point have to produce it in court, and I think most people still take more notice of snail mail than email.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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In this instance I think a proper letter is called for - you might at some point have to produce it in court, and I think most people still take more notice of snail mail than email.

 

Much appreciated for your time and reply's reallymadwomen

 

many thanks again

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I sent them this.........

 

I write to you with regards to the Credit Application form Signed by myself xxxxxxxxx

 

It is not possible for myself to recognise this as a credible directors guarantee for a number of reasons and feel we are right to therefore challenge its validity.

 

1) Misrepresentation - the document is headed 'Credit Account Application Form (Limited Company)' and for it to be a personal guarantee is misrepresentation by you the creditor

 

 

2) I have never seen the attachment page before therefore i am not liable.

 

3) It is my belief that the guarantee does not meet the reasonableness test because i had no intention of entering into a personal guarantee and I had no knowledge of or participation in such. Nor did I sign or see any witness statements on the document.

 

A copy of this email will be sent in writing to your office address and any further communication should be and will be in writing.

 

 

There reply was.......

 

We refer to the recent email you have sent to xxxxx in our Sales Ledger Department, and would draw your attention to the following:-

 

 

1. You signed our Credit Account Application Form clearly where it is written ‘I/We confirm acceptance of the conditions of sale of xxxxxx Supplies as attached’. The Directors Guarantee is a standard clause within the conditions of sale, and by signing these conditions you have accepted them. Therefore this cannot be misrepresentation.

 

2. The Terms and Conditions are attached to the application form. Therefore they were in your possession before you returned the form to us. You are bound by what you have signed.

 

3. By signing the form you have accepted liability personally for the cost of goods and services provided.

 

 

If you are unable to pay the debt in one lump sum, there is a possibility we would agree to payment in instalments. However, we must know this before we submit our claim to the County Court. Failure to respond to this email today will result in County Court procedures being initiated.

 

what are your thoughts

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Personally I would have kept it much simpler to avoid inviting a response of the nature you got.

 

Is there anything on the piece of paper you did sign regarding personal guarantees?

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Personally I would have kept it much simpler to avoid inviting a response of the nature you got.

 

Is there anything on the piece of paper you did sign regarding personal guarantees?

 

No nothing specific to a Directors/personal Guarantee only on the 1st page i signed for a credit application

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Post a letter to them saying

 

I deny absolutely ever having seen or having brought to my attention the document previously supplied described as 'xxxx' and I deny absolutely ever being requested to provide or agreeing to provide a director's guarantee. In the absence of any proof that I did so agree, I am unable to accept any liability for the alleged debt. Furthermore, unless you are able to provide such proof I am not willing to enter into any further correspondence and in particular no further emails on the subject will be accepted.

 

This means that to respond to you someone has to actually write a letter which takes an awful lot more effort than firing off an email, also you're making it absolutely clear you're not going to just roll over and pay up. They could chance their arm a bit further and try threats of court or even court, but without proof that you agreed to a personal guarantee they're up the creek without a paddle and they know it.

Out of interest, when you signed the application did you get a copy of the paperwork, or did you get a copy of any actual agreement?

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Post a letter to them saying

 

I deny absolutely ever having seen or having brought to my attention the document previously supplied described as 'xxxx' and I deny absolutely ever being requested to provide or agreeing to provide a director's guarantee. In the absence of any proof that I did so agree, I am unable to accept any liability for the alleged debt. Furthermore, unless you are able to provide such proof I am not willing to enter into any further correspondence and in particular no further emails on the subject will be accepted.

 

This means that to respond to you someone has to actually write a letter which takes an awful lot more effort than firing off an email, also you're making it absolutely clear you're not going to just roll over and pay up. They could chance their arm a bit further and try threats of court or even court, but without proof that you agreed to a personal guarantee they're up the creek without a paddle and they know it.

Out of interest, when you signed the application did you get a copy of the paperwork, or did you get a copy of any actual agreement?

 

Thank you so much for the response, i never did receive any copy of the paperwork or agreement!

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OK - so the guarantee is contained in a separate page of terms and conditions, which are referred to in the form you signed?

 

 

If this is the case, the dispute will come down to convincing the judge on a balance of probabilities whether or not the terms and conditions were provided to you at the time you signed the form.

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