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    • Again, massive thanks to you for the help provided. Two questions: Should I show the dealership correspondence from Blue Motor Finance? Should I send them this letter?   I have changed a couple of bits from your letter. Please see below the final draft:   Dear Sir/Madam, Thank you for your email on 6th December 2021 As you know, this is a hire purchase agreement and as such you are effectively the dealer to all intents and purposes. You have a contract with the dealer but that is a different matter and of course it isn't a contract governed by the consumer rights act because neither of you are consumers. However I am a consumer and I'm protected by the consumer credit act and you have all the responsibilities to me as if you were the retailer (which you are). You are a business which is regulated under the FCA – but also you are a business which is regulated under the consumer credit act and this makes you liable under any consumer legislation which I enjoy – in particular, the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The retailer has already indicated that they are prepared to repair the first fault which occurred – the seatbelt fault.  I'm fully prepared to drive the car back to Blackburn for this repair and also for a further diagnosis of any other defects. Of course, I shall be claiming the costs of this from you – in particular if it means that the car has to stay with the dealer overnight or longer and I have to return at a later date. By insisting on this option,  I take it that you do not have any objection in me driving a faulty vehicle for over three hours, therefore assuming the risk of making the transmission issue worse or even risking a possible catastrophic transmission failure.   As a gesture of goodwill to you, I'm prepared to try and take steps to mitigate your losses by taking the car to a repairer local to me in order to have the work and diagnosis carried out there. I should warn you that if you do prefer me to return the vehicle to the retailer in Blackburn, then I may well decide to carry out my own independent inspection should the retailer not agree that the faults which I am describing exist. If an independent inspection confirms my own view, then I shall be looking to you to reimburse the cost of this inspection in addition to any other costs I reasonably incur. You may feel that it is more cost-effective for you in the long term if I have the car repaired locally and diagnosed locally because then this will also amount to an independent inspection and avoid further damage to the transmission.   In respect of your reference to a warranty, please stop trying to fob me off on to warranties. I am perfectly happy to rely on my statutory consumer rights – and I think you had better understand that. I hope you also understand that warranties are subordinate to statutory consumer rights.   You say that your business is regulated by the FCA – and of course that is correct – and that also means that if you start making misleading statements or try to avoid your responsibilities to me then in addition to county court action I am entitled to make a complaint to the financial ombudsman service. The FCA may allow you eight weeks to investigate a problem and to produce a final response, but what the FCA permits you to do is subordinate to my rights under current consumer legislation. Your trumpeting of what you are allowed to do by the FCA is calculated to mislead me. Don't do it. You have sold me a vehicle which is defective and not of satisfactory quality. This is a breach of contract. Your statement that I'm not entitled to recover any reasonable foreseeable losses caused by your breach of contract is incorrect. In particular, your statement that as a consumer I do not have the same entitlement as a business customer is quite wrong – and also calculated to mislead me because I'm sure you must know better. I accept that it is fair enough that the retailer should have an opportunity to inspect the vehicle and to ascertain the fault. As soon as my position is confirmed, then I shall be looking to you to either arrange or at least to agree the cost of repairs so that they can be put in hand without any delay. Don't imagine that that will be as long as eight weeks.   I'm giving you seven days to let me know which course of action you would prefer me to take. I hope you understand that I'm trying to have your best interests in mind at all times. Yours faithfully
    • So long as they aren't unlawfully discriminating against you because of a protected characteristic, I presume that like anybody else they can pick and choose whom they do business with.    I understand places like Amazon and eBay will close "problem" purchaser accounts quite commonly, and will often also close other accounts that they believe are connected to a problem account  (eg same email, same physical address, same payment details etc).
    • Hi 1st all NO I will not turn it down I'm up there with the big boys   china Russia India me   with global warming   lol .  Thank you for your help but iv got nowhere with !  your repair !  As in terms of them replying  or help .its the wrong time year to drag this out fighting them while I got no hot water or heating.  I have left bad reviews on there sites  hoping that will help others from making the same mistake as me  ! joining there scam !.  As for the NEST  yes it's the government backed scheme for ppl on disability an low income to help warm there homes .  Just do what I did ASK   they can only say yes or no  and there supa fast . So thank you . I will be keeping a look in and see if any one else post about  !your repair!  As I can guarantee I wont be the last person scammed.   Cheers . 
    • Sorry yes was on a small screen.   Funny how it says settle at the earliest, but wont allow ooc?   Dx
    • Fraudsters are using the details of firms we authorise to try to convince people that they work for a genuine, authorised firm. Find out more about this 'clone firm'.View the full article
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Hi Guys,


I've trying to figure out what happened since last week when the estate agent sent, out of the blue, this email that i am attaching.


The story goes like this. We had a 6-month contract with these estate agents started from the 1st Oct 2013. Both my flatmate and me are named on the contract. My flatmate has been living in the flat for the past 4 years but on the summer of 2013 the management of the building changed hands to this new super dubious agents.


On March 20th, the sent us an email asking if we wanted to stay in the flat, we said yes and a monthly rolling took effect based on the previous one.


Apparently, around that time, they asked my flatmate, without me knowing, to go in and sign the deposition protection document, that's what they told her at least. And apparently she signed page 3 of the attached document, without seeing page 4 or getting a copy of it.


On Aug 13th, they sent out by post and email FOR THE FIRST TIME the attached document.The initial contract states that the landlord is required to give 2 months notice to us and we need to give one months notice to him.


I'm on holidays, was not planning to go back to London till the 8th of September.... Do you know if this is legal? My flatmate was been talking to the council and says we might have a serious case since we have been mislead but I am very bothered by the paper she signed on the 24th of march... Although there is no record of me, the other named tenant, even having previously received any such document.


And also, two weeks ago, the head of the estate agency came to the flat with a paper notice of increase of the rent (by 16.5%!!!!) from Sept 1st!! (after the repossession period apparently!). The weird thing is that we never disputed or even discussed it as I was leaving for holidays.


Can you let me know what you think? Do they have a case? I dont want to go to court but there is no way we can evacuate the flat till the 31 of Aug. I only want them to grant my lawful request for two months notice.



Edited by vastille
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Further to the above guys, I noticed something which seems completely wrong with the notice, final page on the attached document. It is stated that the notice was served on the 24th of March as a section 21(4)a notice which is for periodic tenancy. However, till the 31st of march we were fixed term tenants covered by our six month contract signed october 1st.


I read a bit on landlord advice on the web and it seems they should have served the section 21(1)b notice at that time, which is required for fixed term tenancy contracts.


So, it looks to me that they used the wrong notice. Could this make the notice invalid? Any thoughts?

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I think you have it right that the notice is not valid as it was issued during the fixed term.


Issuing a notice does not have much effect if there is no intention to ask you to leave. If 31st July has rolled by without agent enquiring whether you are leaving or complaining that you haven't left, there may be no intention to act on the notice.


However, once a (valid) notice has been issued, there is a risk that they can initiate a repossession claim at any time after the expiry of the notice. This may be their intention.


Concentrating on the rent rise request: was the rent rise request issued as a Section 13 notice - it would mention Section 13 and include a list of your rights. eg: (random google result):




If not then I believe you can ignore it.


If they did not give you a month's notice, then you can ignore it for September.


If you decide you want to leave, I suggest that you still need to issue one month's notice.

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Thanks Steve.


No, the request for increase of rent was not formal at all, and it was not issued as a Section 13 notice.


Indeed, the first we heard of this section 21 notice was after july 31th, they never enquired whether we will be leaving, until Aug 13th, when they sent the attached document.


If they issue a valid notice now they still need to give us two months notice, is this correct? In my email to them, I will suggest this or to agree on a mutual date of termination as you suggested.


Thanks a lot!

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Yes they still need to give you two months' notice.


You do have some flexibility. You could give a month's notice now and go at the end of September.


You could ignore their rent rise notice, and they won't be able to serve you a proper rent rise notice till September (so it won't apply till November) which gives you another month in the property.


If you agree on a mutual date of termination, make sure it is in writing.

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Hi Steve,


I found out today that the law has slightly changed, in favour of the landlord, since December 2013. I found this document detailing the reason why it changed and what holds now. [unfortunately, i cant paste links just yet..]




I think I'm still covered, although I realise the point is subtle. If you see last paragraph of the web page above it says that section 21 (4) now only applies when there is no initial fixed term. So in my case it still doesn't apply. Can you please let me know what think?


Thank you

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Nothing new there! really; just remember two months by LL and one month by tenant.

21 ( 1) (b) usual form. but usually does have an end date ( which is more than 2 months ), which it does not have to, that's all.

regarding increase in rent, if you pay it, then you have agreed to it!

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Your post is not entirely clear - and the documents posted too small for me to read properly.


However, you state you entered a 'rolling' tenancy - and if that is the case, then notice can be served at any time.


Can you clarify? I am not sure you've give sufficient detailed information for anyone to give an accurate answer based on your specific circumstances.


1. What date did the fixed term tenancy, started in October 2013, actually end (exact date).


2. What date did the 'rolling tenancy' start?


3. Are you NAMED on the original tenancy agreement in October 2013?

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1. The fixed term was 01/10/2013 till 31/03/2013.


2. The rolling contract always starts after that, from 01/04/2014 in my case, or else the periodic tenancy.


3. I am indeed the first named tenant on the original contract. My flatmate is the second named tenant.


Please let me know I can provide more info, maybe you could blow up the documents? I could use some advice as they are continuing with their threats to take it to court from Sept 1st. They refuse to discuss anything else.

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Hi vastille


Your attachments are to small for other user to read properly could you please repost them as PDF:


**How to post up Images/Letters by this method immediately..you don't need 10 posts**


Set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!



ENSURE: Remove all personal information inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.


************************* ************************* ***********


************************* ************************* ***********

IPHONE only, take a pic and convert to pdf via an APP


DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...




if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/


use http://www.pdfmerge.com


convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]


it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs


or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

or use Primo PDF.


try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though DONT USE BANK NAMES or CAGicon in the title

i'e Default notice DDicon-mm-yyyy


open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files


YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

you can click on your links to check them too!

How to Upload Documents/Images on CAG - **INSTRUCTIONS CLICK HERE**

FORUM RULES - Please ensure to read these before posting **FORUM RULES CLICK HERE**

I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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If the notice was served on both of you, it's valid. It gave you over four months notice and the fact it was served during the fixed term is immaterial as its expiry is not dependent on the end of tenancy date...that is a date four months after it was served and clearly did not seek to end the tenancy during the fixed term.


They can proceed to court. If your tenancy agreement makes reference to them charging for legal fees, I'd suggest you leave sooner rather than wait for court action, unless your deposit or the prescribed information has not been protected/served on you (either of which would render the s21 invalid).

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i was never served this notice, and there is no record of me ever discussing or acknowledging this notice prior to their email on 13/08/2014


How can they serve a periodic tenancy s21 notice DURING the fixed term? In the alleged notice itself, on the fifth bullet point, it states that periodic tenancy notice is SERVED AFTER the fixed term, irrespective of the expiration date. Am I misinterpreting it?


Yes, there are always the threats of legal costs/bad credit...


Btw, if one of the tenants moves out and the other doesn't, what happens then?

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You are clutching at straws. Your link #8 explains the Court of Appeal Decision, that in SPT the s21 required needs no expiry date, provided 2 clear cal months have elapsed after service. A formal s21a is only required if SPT was not preceded by a fixed term.

Also 'deemed service' (Interpretation Act), only requires a pre-paid, correctly addressed Notice to be posted through the property letterbox. The recipient does not have to acknowledge receipt or even read it.



The Law evolves by precedent.

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Sorry I misread your original link so you should ignore what I said. I assumed that when you said your co-tenant had signed page 3 in March, that the whole document was from March.


Re-reading the Housing Act it does seem that the Section 21(4) could be served during the fixed term.


You could perhaps offer them a date when you will move and they may delay proceedings as it would likely take them several weeks. Depends on why they want you out. I'd still ignore their rent rise notice.


Leah, or anyone, what are the likely costs of staying after proceedings have started?

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Also, does anyone know what happens if one tenant conforms to the repossession notice and the other not? If they do take it to court are both tenants liable for the costs staying after proceeding have started??


Thank you all!

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If one tenant leaves on the basis of the notice, they have a complete defence to any court action taken in their name thereafter and will not be subjected to the costs arising because the other tenant chose not to leave...a judge will almost certainly award costs against the person who remains in the property, not the one who left when asked to. The latter would make no logical sense.


You can risk going to court and claiming you were not served the notice - however the signature on the form belies that.


I already covered the non-issue of the type of notice served and that it was served whilst seven days of the tenancy still remained. The fact is the notice did not expire before the end of the tenancy, which is the only thing that would have rendered it invalid (bar deposit protection/PI). A s21 can be served right after the deposit and PI have been protected - so essentially any time during the fixed term. It can't expire within that fixed term, and if it's planned to expire several months after the fixed term has ended, then either an a or b can be served. No one will care much so long as the correct length of time was given.


Re costs, if OP moves before the LL has issued court proceedings, there'll be no costs to pay. If OP moves after LL has started proceedings, and therefore incurred costs, even if OP moves immediately thereafter, LL will still be entitled to recover the costs of issuing proceedings.

Edited by Lea_HTH
Added a bit re notice.
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