Landlord keeping deposit - not secured in deposit scheme

[Sula64]

Hi all,

 

We ended our tenancy early (with landlords agreement we have a signed deed of surrender). We owe the landlord a few days rent which we agreed to pay. When we asked initially for details of the deposit scheme the LL had used we received no response. We have written three times to ask for the information to no avail. The LL has now sent us some cash but has deducted over £260 for various 'issues' all of which we would strongly contest.

Points:

1. AST from 2012

2. contract states deposit scheme will be used although not which one

3. no inventory completed

4. we have vacated the property (in very good condition and we did take some photos as evidence).

 

LL is now saying our money was not put in a deposit scheme because we refused to pay the £25 admin fee. LL has made this up and is now saying this after a month of us trying to get our deposit back. We have previously rented and all our other landlords used a deposit scheme and we got all of our deposit returned with no problems. We had assumed that our money was safe and maybe the LL had overlooked sending us the paperwork. LL also has numerous other properties that they rent.

 

Is our only option to take the LL to court? If so any advice would be gratefully received.

[landlor]

Hi all,

 

We ended our tenancy early (with landlords agreement we have a signed deed of surrender). We owe the landlord a few days rent which we agreed to pay. When we asked initially for details of the deposit scheme the LL had used we received no response. We have written three times to ask for the information to no avail. The LL has now sent us some cash but has deducted over £260 for various 'issues' all of which we would strongly contest.

Points:

1. AST from 2012

2. contract states deposit scheme will be used although not which one

3. no inventory completed

4. we have vacated the property (in very good condition and we did take some photos as evidence).

 

LL is now saying our money was not put in a deposit scheme because we refused to pay the £25 admin fee. LL has made this up and is now saying this after a month of us trying to get our deposit back. We have previously rented and all our other landlords used a deposit scheme and we got all of our deposit returned with no problems. We had assumed that our money was safe and maybe the LL had overlooked sending us the paperwork. LL also has numerous other properties that they rent.

 

Is our only option to take the LL to court? If so any advice would be gratefully received.

 

Hey, I am a new-bee but have collected enough information by now as I am in same boat as you.

 

There is no reason for LL to retain deposit. Its sad that tenancy ended and the LL did not protect your money.

 

But you can teach you LL a lesson since has hard-done you. As per the Localism act, you will be entitled to 1-3x times compensation from LL for not following the laws. And it takes just around £100.00 of court fee to initiate the case in county court.

 

If the LL counter-claims he will have to pay the fee for that and for any hearing that is needed by him to establish his claims.

 

So you don't incur more than around £100.00, depending on the deposit amount.

[Sula64]

Thank you for your response.

 

I was aware that the LL might be liable for the deposit from other threads on here. I do have a couple of specific queries:

 

1. Can the LL use in their defence that they asked us for a £25.00 admin fee for a deposit scheme but we refused? As I have said this is wholly untrue but I expect the LL to defend any claim and they could say anything!

2. If we claim through the courts I assume we only ask for the money the LL owes us not the full deposit (we have agreed all along to pay the outstanding rent). On a few threads there seems to be some conflicting advice.

 

I want to make sure that I can fill the court forms in properly as I have not done anything like this before.

[landlor]

Thank you for your response.

 

I was aware that the LL might be liable for the deposit from other threads on here. I do have a couple of specific queries:

 

1. Can the LL use in their defence that they asked us for a £25.00 admin fee for a deposit scheme but we refused? As I have said this is wholly untrue but I expect the LL to defend any claim and they could say anything!

2. If we claim through the courts I assume we only ask for the money the LL owes us not the full deposit (we have agreed all along to pay the outstanding rent). On a few threads there seems to be some conflicting advice.

 

I want to make sure that I can fill the court forms in properly as I have not done anything like this before.

 

(1) No. Deposit is deposit and it must be protected within 30 days. If the LL owed admin fee, that was a different matter and would have to be dealt separately. He cant club it up.

 

(2) You can ask for what you owe and punitive claim against LL for not protecting your deposit within 30 days. The claim is between 1-3x times the deposit, depending in judge's discretion. Min 1X is a must, as per law.

 

There are many scare-mongers here, probably employed by some Landlord-organisations who will try to scare you by telling that your expenses could go upto 1k+. All scare-mongering.

[Sula64]

Thanks again for your quick response.

 

Sorry to keep having questions but do I claim for 1x deposit or 3x?

[landlor]

Thanks again for your quick response.

 

Sorry to keep having questions but do I claim for 1x deposit or 3x?

 

I would reasonable to call in 2x. 3x is rare and will put you in bad light.

[The Carpet Cleaners]

You cannot claim for any times the deposit. All you can do is take the LL to court for non protection, and it is up to the judge how much if any compensation you may be awarded. It is totally discretionary on the judge.

[Herilsamika]

You cannot claim for any times the deposit. All you can do is take the LL to court for non protection, and it is up to the judge how much if any compensation you may be awarded. It is totally discretionary on the judge.

 

Hi The Carpet Cleaners,

I don't believe that is correct, as when you issue the moneyclaim you have to insert an amount, so the usual advice given is to claim for the initial deposit plus three times eg. if your deposit is £1000, then you issue a claim for £4000, then it is up to the judge to amend or grant your award plus costs.

[The Carpet Cleaners]

Fair enough, but I would suggest that the amount on the MCOL form is just the deposit that has to be returned, and the non protection is there as an addition to the main claim.

 

So in this case the claim amount is for the return of £260 plus the non protection of deposit.

 

This still relies on the judge of the day's interpretation of the law as to whether he/she will hear the non protection part, or the op has to go through the other route.

Edited August 19, 2014 by The Carpet Cleaners
hadn't fully read the first post..... sorry

[Herilsamika]

Fair enough, but I would suggest that the amount on the MCOL form is just the deposit that has to be returned, and the non protection is there as an addition to the main claim.

 

So in this case the claim amount is for the return of £260 plus the non protection of deposit.

 

This still relies on the judge of the day's interpretation of the law as to whether he/she will hear the non protection part, or the op has to go through the other route.

 

 

I'm gearing up to sue my landlord for my deposit return and a few other issues and I've been advised to put the amount on the form of three times plus the deposit plus the other issues. Hope the judge doesn't separate the claim.

[The Carpet Cleaners]

good luck. Please keep us informed of your progress.

[ericsbrother]

Was admin fee in original contract? if no then it is a fiction and cannot be claimed. Unfair trading term so unlawful.

[Sula64]

Was admin fee in original contract? if no then it is a fiction and cannot be claimed. Unfair trading term so unlawful.

 

No admin fee in contract and no such conversation ever even took place. Receipt for deposit says deposit 'held'. Contract states deposit return will be agreed by deposit scheme (and also quotes the 2004 Housing Act all over it).

When we asked for information re deposit scheme initially she wrote that the deposit would be dealt with separately by her and that is exactly what she has done. One example is that we had the carpets professionally cleaned (although they were not professionally cleaned when we took the tenancy). She had them done again and charged us for it.

[landlor]

No admin fee in contract and no such conversation ever even took place. Receipt for deposit says deposit 'held'. Contract states deposit return will be agreed by deposit scheme (and also quotes the 2004 Housing Act all over it).

When we asked for information re deposit scheme initially she wrote that the deposit would be dealt with separately by her and that is exactly what she has done. One example is that we had the carpets professionally cleaned (although they were not professionally cleaned when we took the tenancy). She had them done again and charged us for it.

 

sue the landlady. You will get your money back for carpet, in all probability, unless you think you really made it dirty. Did you have any inventory done?

[Sula64]

No inventory. LL has photos of each room, but so do we and they are the same.

 

Apart from the kitchen and bathroom carpet (who puts carpet in a kitchen and bathroom! We had asked for lino when she said she would change them before we moved in) which were new, the other carpets were in very poor condition, extremely old and had many burn marks from previous tenants (smoking burn marks). LL did not replace these although we suspect she had kept previous tenants deposit as when they vacated they left all the windows and doors open and all the taps running!

[landlor]

No inventory. LL has photos of each room, but so do we and they are the same.

 

Apart from the kitchen and bathroom carpet (who puts carpet in a kitchen and bathroom! We had asked for lino when she said she would change them before we moved in) which were new, the other carpets were in very poor condition, extremely old and had many burn marks from previous tenants (smoking burn marks). LL did not replace these although we suspect she had kept previous tenants deposit as when they vacated they left all the windows and doors open and all the taps running!

 

The LL try but they eventually lose. My LL claimed all sorts of things and the DPS turned down all of them. So I would say don't worry. You are in a better position. Just enjoy because the LL just dug her own grave. My current LL has not protected my deposits either. He is good and so am I and will not bother him he lets me easily exit. Else I will have the fun.

 

Some LLs think that they are smarter than T's only because they own a house.

[raydetinu]

yes agree, sue LL for all deposit and non-protection; If LL counter claims for defects, he will have to prove it take into account fair wear and tear.

Judge may consider non-protection so worth a try, amount of compensation is totally up to Judge.

To be safe as far as CPR goes serve LL with a LBA to return deposit in full within 7 days or you will start court proceedings.

[Sula64]

Yes thank you. I have drafted the LBA and have all copies of letters etc to send with it.

One question, if the LL responds to the LBA with an offer do I have to send another LBA taking that amount off. Sorry that sounds a bit confusing. So we know we owe for the outstanding rent which I have taken off the claim but if LL makes a payment/offer to pay does the time limit on the LBA 'reset' ie. I have to give a further 14 days?

[raydetinu]

No LBA stands; if you reach an agreement and he defaults ( get it in writing ) you can go straight to court.