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    • Okay please go through the disclosure very carefully. I suggest that you use the technique broadly in line with the advice we give on preparing your court bundle. You want to know what is there – but also very importantly you want to know what is not there. For instance, the email that they said they sent you before responding to the SAR – did you see that? Is there any trace of of the phone call that you made to the woman who didn't know anything about SAR's? On what basis was the £50 sent to you? Was it unilateral or did they offer it and you accepted it on some condition? When did they send you this £50 cheque? Have you banked it? Also, I think that we need to start understanding what you have lost here. Have you lost any money – and if so how much? Send the SAR to your bank as advised above
    • In anticipation of lodging my court claim next Weds 1 May (14 days after advising P2G that was my deadline for them to settle my claim) I have completed my first draft POC as below: Claim Claim number: xxxxx Reference: P2G MAY 2024   Claimant xxxxx   Defendant Parcel2Go 1A Parklands Lostock Bolton BL6 4SD  Particulars of Claim The defendant has failed to arrange for the safe delivery of the claimant's parcel containing a 8 secondhand golf clubs (valued at £265) that was sent to a UK address using their delivery service (P2G Reference xxxxx). The defendant contracted Evri to deliver the parcel (Evri Reference xxxxx) and refuses to reimburse the claimant on the grounds that the claimant did not purchase their secondary insurance contract. The defendant seeks to exclude their liability in breach of section 57 Consumer Rights Act. The secondary insurance contract is in breach of section 72. The claimant seeks reimbursement of £265, plus P2G fees of £9.10, plus postage costs for two first class letters to P2G of £2.70, plus court fees, plus interest. The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from xxxxx to xxxxxx on £276.80 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £xxxx   Details of claim Amount claimed £276.80 I look forward to your thoughts and comments guys! As ever, many thanks - G59    
    • Hmm, that's strange how they got my email then.  I assume the below is ok to send to DCBL, Nicky?  Hello, I am writing regarding our ongoing dispute and the upcoming court claim reference xxxxxxxx. To ensure fairness and transparency in our communications leading up to the court hearing, I request that you use postal mail exclusively for all further correspondence related to this claim. Please refrain from sending any communication or documents via email. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. If you have any questions or need clarification, please feel free to contact me via postal mail at the address provided above. Yours sincerely, xxxx
    • In the SAR, I received the original application, lots of computer print outs, yearly statements from 2013 and the new emails regarding my complaint. They sent me a £50 cheque after I chased them for the SAR after the 30 days. They said they was waiting for me to respond to an email (which I never received) before sending the SAR
    • classic P2G. I'm sure dianne and Lesley will pop an email to you at some point.
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MBNA & Blake Lapthorn


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Hello people -

 

I recently received a demand from Westcot for a CC debt - so i did the usual thing of asking for a copy of the CCA.

I sent the request to Westcot ( with a £1 PO) and i received a letter back ( with my PO) saying that i should send the request direct to the original creditor and not them as they were acting on behalf of the original creditor and that i should make arrangement to pay westcot IMMEDIATELY.

 

I already know that there is no copy of CCA available as 3 previous DCAs have tried this on me and failed -

 

On every single encounter with a DCA i have requested the CCA from them and NOT the original creditor.

 

In my previous experiences of westcot they have NEVER written back to me and tell me to send the request to the original creditor - they just havn't supplied it!!!

 

...so are they trying to be clever ( don't ask me how!) or are they just stupid?!!!!

 

 

many thanks

 

OOT

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It is a trend at the moment for DCAs to do this,

I would recommend not bothering with their

tantrums and just send the CCA request to the

original creditor.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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check your CRA file too.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi,as you are aware Westcot are unhelpful to say the least,have had this same response from them,my reply was

 

Thankyou for your unhelpful letter, I will contact the OC and advise them that Westcot found it impossible to comply with my CCA request and if I consider you need to be made aware of the OCs response I will inform you, in the mean time I do not expect any further communication from you.(or something similar)

 

This usually keeps them quiet

 

FS

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Hang on a sec. I would be sending an account in dispute letter as it has been since the first DCA couldn't supply it.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Have you ever sent a CCA request to the creditor directly?

 

If you had already sent a CCA request to a previous DCA, and it was unanswered, there was no need to send off another.

 

Did you ever send an account in dispute letter after there was no CCA response? That is a must.

 

Sending a CCA request is not designed to be used as a £1 barrier to stop people chasing debts! It’s pointless and a waste of £1.

 

To keep doing so misses the point of sending one in the first place.

 

If you have sent an account in dispute letter to a previous DCA or the creditor, just remind Westcot of the fact and send them a copy of your dispute letter.

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  • 2 years later...

Hello dear Friends -

 

Not been around for a while, but i need your help

 

Back in 2008, with your help, i fought off our lovely friends Moorcroft Debt Recovery and a debt to MBNA.

 

Its quite a long drawn out story - documented on this forum -

 

later Moorcroft actually took me to court and won, purely because ( quite stupidly) i had informed them that i was working outside of the UK,

they served me with a claim at County Court and because i wasn't around to attend they got judgement.

 

It took me a while to get my house in order, but eventually I contested the claim in County Court and got the claim set aside,

purely because they did not turn up - they did not have a leg to stand on - they knew they had been sneaky!

 

It now seems that Arrow Global have taken up the fight and with the help of those charming people at Westcot Credit Services

are gathering speed against me. They have enlisted the help of Blake Lapthorn Solicitors to do their dirty work.

 

Last week i received a whole bumper parcel from Lapthorn containing lots of photo copied bits and bats

- they have sent me a photo copy of the application form to MBNA and a load of general terms and conditions that may or may not have related to this agreement.

 

In their covering letter they tell me they have enclosed a copy of the following:

 

1. Agreement

2. Terms and conditions

3.Varied terms and conditions

4.Default notice

5. Notice of assignment

 

As i said earlier there is no signed agreement - just an application form.

 

Their letter closes with the sentence-

" Unless we receive payment of this sum within 10 days of the date of this letter

and /or your proposals for settlement of the owing debt,

we are instructed to apply to lift the stay of claim and obtain Summary Judgement against you".

 

I duly sent a letter back to them stating that there was no signed agreement - it was purely an application form.

 

4 days ago i received a reply -

 

 

You will note that we have sent you the application form which states the following in the Principal Cardholders Application and Declaration:

 

"I have received a copy of and agree to be bound by MBNA Credit Card Terms and Conditions

and I understand that I am also responsible for paying any balances due on my credit account"

 

Your contention that the prescribed terms were not included is wholly refuted as you would

have received a copy of the prescribed terms and the terms and conditions prior to signing the agreement

 

Furthermore, you will note that the following is stated in the signature box:

 

"This is a credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms"

 

We note that you have signed in the signature box and therefore have agreed to be bound by the same.

 

In any event, the terms and conditions that we have sent you are the terms and conditions

that you would have had at the time of the signing of the agreement.

 

You have not put forward a settlement offer and therefore, we will proceed to obtain our clients instructions

with a view to applying to the court to obtain Summary Judgement against you.

 

Sorry about typing this out verbatim, but my scanner is at work!

 

This is how i see it - PLEASE correct or add if i am wrong:

 

irrelevant of what the application form says

- I requested a true signed copy of the CCA

- Its has not been supplied

- I have a letter dated April 2010 from Moorcroft stating that they could not get this.

 

I actually applied for this AFTER they had got judgement against me.

 

The final paragraph does not actually say that they ARE going to apply to the courts just proceed to obtain their clients instructions.

 

The thing i'm not too sure about here is that i requested the CCA from Moorcroft DCA

- apparently it is now Westcot that are dealing with it

- could this be why Lapthorn are been a bit cagey, they don't once mention the initial CCA request

- is this still applicable to them?

 

I would really appreciate a draft letter here - just with some straight to the point clever wording.

These chancers are really making me see red!

 

 

Many thanks to all

 

OOT

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is this the same debt they are chasing? If so then it suremy must be statute barred by now.

However, was the original contract before 2007 because if so they need the signed copy, not the general terms. When did you default? the presumption is well before the 2008 you mention so again, it will be SB by now.

If you are certain of the above then just send them a brief letter saying that you do not recognise any debt to them and any debt to MBNA is statute barred and would they refrain from any further contact on this matter.

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Hi ericsbrother,

 

thanks for the reply

 

The agreement is dated MAY 1999 and the default is dated December 2009....apologies my opening line in the 1st post should have been "Back in 2009....." and not 2008 as i stated.

 

The more i think about this the more i am convinced that i never got a NOA to Westcot.

 

I am 100% about the dates because i have them here in front of me - just not sure where Moorcrofts fell by the wayside and Westcot took over

 

thanks

 

OOT

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  • 2 months later...

 

It now seems that Arrow Global have taken up the fight and with the help of those charming people at Westcot Credit Services are gathering speed against me. They have enlisted the help of Blake Lapthorn Solicitors to do their dirty work.

 

Last week i received a whole bumper parcel from Lapthorn containing lots of photo copied bits and bats - basically they have sent me a photo copy of the application form to MBNA and a load of general terms and conditions that may or may not have related to this agreement.

 

In their covering letter they tell me they have enclosed a copy of the following:

 

1. Agreement

2. Terms and conditions

3.Varied terms and conditions

4.Default notice

5. Notice of assignment

 

As i said earlier there is no signed agreement - just an application form.

 

Their letter closes with the sentence- " Unless we receive payment of this sum within 10 days of the date of this letter and /or your proposals for settlement of the owing debt, we are instructed to apply to lift the stay of claim and obtain Summary Judgement against you".

 

I duly sent a letter back to them stating that there was no signed agreement - it was purely an application form.

 

4 days ago i received a reply -

 

 

You will note that we have sent you the application form which states the following in the Principal Cardholders Application and Declaration:

 

"I have received a copy of and agree to be bound by MBNA Credit Card Terms and Conditions and I understand that I am also responsible for paying any balances due on my credit account"

 

Your contention that the prescribed terms were not included is wholly refuted as you would have received a copy of the prescribed terms and the terms and conditions prior to signing the agreement

 

Furthermore, you will note that the following is stated in the signature box:

 

"This is a credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms"

 

We note that you have signed in the signature box and therefore have agreed to be bound by the same.

 

In any event, the terms and conditions that we have sent you are the terms and conditions that you would have had at the time of the signing of the agreement.

 

When I asked MBNA for a copy of t&cs in place at the time the card was taken, they sent me ones post 2006 because the default fees were £12 each - (mine were between £18-£25) and the application they sent me referred to certain terms laid out in the t&cs which when reading the post 2006 ones bore no relation to the application form.

OOT

 

Check the default charges on the t&cs they have sent. If this account is from 1999 then there is no way that the charges were £12, and the terms wont match to the ones they direct you to on the application form. If they are post 2006, write and ask BL to supply you with the correct t&cs and see what they say

 

Up2

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It's probably also worth pointing out the sentence: "Your contention that the prescribed terms were not included is wholly refuted as you would have received a copy of the prescribed terms and the terms and conditions prior to signing the agreement" which admits that the information they have sent does not include the prescribed terms. OK, maybe not admits, but having to make this sort of statement wouldn't be necessary if what they had sent DID have them.

 

Solicitors will always write with gusto, confidence, and often pomposity, as if everything they say is the absolute truth and that you wouldn't dare challenge their authority. Their letters are designed to shake your confidence. You need to read between the lines in their letters because its often what they don't say that is more revealing than what they do say - especially in relation to direct questions or challenges.

 

I think that having to go off on a tangent like they have suggests (to me anyway) that they know they don't have a strong case, but you must be vigorous and absolute in your defence.

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It's probably also worth pointing out the sentence: "Your contention that the prescribed terms were not included is wholly refuted as you would have received a copy of the prescribed terms and the terms and conditions prior to signing the agreement" which admits that the information they have sent does not include the prescribed terms. OK, maybe not admits, but having to make this sort of statement wouldn't be necessary if what they had sent DID have them.

 

Solicitors will always write with gusto, confidence, and often pomposity, as if everything they say is the absolute truth and that you wouldn't dare challenge their authority. Their letters are designed to shake your confidence. You need to read between the lines in their letters because its often what they don't say that is more revealing than what they do say - especially in relation to direct questions or challenges.

 

I think that having to go off on a tangent like they have suggests (to me anyway) that they know they don't have a strong case, but you must be vigorous and absolute in your defence.

 

 

 

Have any payments been made or unequivocal written acknowledgments been made in regard to this in 6 clear years??

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello good people

 

Interesting development here -

 

Despite me sending a VERY strong letter to Blake Lapthorn stating that they had not complied with my request and had sent me a copy of the application form instead of the agreement, I received a letter from them last week stating:

 

We have already provided you with a copy of the signed agreement and other relevant documentation to evidence the claim.

As such our client will now proceed to the court to lift the staynto enter summary judgement.

These idiots are adamant that they have complied - trust me, all they have sent is a copy of the application form, which they say contains the terms and conditions, which apprently is good enough.

 

As i stated on the very first post I got caught out by Moorcrofts ( dealt with this originally) as they did EXACTLY the same thing - but because I knew nothing of this as i was working outside of the UK I missed the court date and ended up with judgement against me. I arranged to go back to Court for it to be struck off and suprise suprise Moorcrofts didn't even turn up.

 

2 days ago i received a letter from the Courts saying that I would be receiving notice of time and date for the Courts to deal with the claimants application for summary judgement.

 

I suspect they will not even turn up -

 

What do you think should be my next step?

 

Thanks

 

OOT

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello Friends,

 

I didn't think this would happen - but it has....

 

I had a claim made against me in court around 2 years ago for a MBNA debt

- I filed defence successfully because there was no signed copy of CCA

- the claim was stayed.

 

End of that - or so i thought...

 

Recently Blake Lapthorn have started chasing me for this

- I have written to them several time sating that they have not provided me with the correct information

- Signed copy of CCA - prescribed terms and conditions etc -

 

Recently they sent me a copy of the application form with my signature on it,

stating that this was all that was required because by signing this application I was bound by the terms of the CCA.

 

Blake Lapthorn have now applied for the stay to be lifted - Court date is at the beginning of August.

 

They are adamant in their defence that this copy of the application form with my signature on it is enough to get the stay lifted in front of a Judge.

 

I am beginning to wonder if I have missed something here

- I know that the proper documentation has not been supplied with respect to my request,

but these people are absolutely relentless in their quest -

 

Any suggestions of what i should do next - getting quite nervous about this

 

 

Thanks

 

OOT

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What else was supplied with the application form/?

Does it have all the terms and conditions with it?

Does it show anywhere that the card was actually issued?

 

 

IMO their claim that by signing the app form may not hold water as it is understood that you are only bound by the CCA conditions if a card in issued and accepted.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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I have scanned up the copy of the application form that they say is sufficient.

 

I have also scanned the page which forms the basis of their whole argument.

 

There is a document of 4 pages which is headed as 'Terms and conditions' There is no reference to me or anything in my name. It seems to be a general document which could relate to anything.

 

There is a 6 page document which is headed ' Credit Card Agreement Regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974' - My name & address has been inserted at the top of the document - there is no other reference to me or details of any issued card and there is NO signature - again this seems to be a general document which may or may not relate to this matter.

 

I can scan these 2 documents up if required.

 

Thanks

 

OOT

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If those T&Cs were on the back of the application form (and therefore present at the time of signing), and contain the prescribed terms – which they appear to – then it’s quite likely that it constitutes, in total, a valid credit agreement.

 

I would imagine the other document supplied is a full version of the T&Cs.

 

I though you had the previous claim/default judgment set aside? If so, it’s a new claim surely?

 

And if Arrow Global have requested any stay be lifted, surely they must apply to be substituted as the claimant first? Please clarify the claim and ownership history, and any NoAs received.

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the NOA was sent to me on 15th Jan 2012 which is when BL took over.

 

They sent me Letter Before Action ( or so they say) on 6th August 2012 -

 

The claim was issued in September 2012 and i filed defence on 18th September 2012 - As BL did not respond to this the defence the claim got automatically stayed pursuant to CPR Rule 15.11

 

My defence was that they had not supplied me correctly with my CCA request. All they supplied THEN was EXACTLY what they have supplied NOW.

 

So what has changed?????

 

OOT

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the NOA was sent to me on 15th Jan 2012 which is when BL took over.

 

They sent me Letter Before Action ( or so they say) on 6th August 2012 -

 

The claim was issued in September 2012 and i filed defence on 18th September 2012 - As BL did not respond to this the defence the claim got automatically stayed pursuant to CPR Rule 15.11

 

My defence was that they had not supplied me correctly with my CCA request. All they supplied THEN was EXACTLY what they have supplied NOW.

 

So what has changed?????

 

OOT

 

 

 

I totally agree DB a "good" reconstituted agreement definitely satisfies a CCA request and more than adequate to produce in court.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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