Help

[landlor]

Hello Friends,

 

Thankfully I just found this website which I think is great.

 

I am an old landlord and did not know about the deposit protection laws.

 

I had this tenant since April-2011 and vacated in Nov-2013.

 

I deposited the money after the tenant asked me about it in Jan-2013 and also gave him prescribed booklet from DPS.

 

it was ONLY then that i came to know about the laws.

 

I only deducted small amount (£500.00) from deposit because the wear & tear were not much and have been reasonable with him always.

 

However he is now chasing me for delay in protecting his deposit as per Localism act which came in force in April-2012.

 

How far will he be successful in his claim at court?

 

What is the trend these days on this law.

 

I mean is the law more to scare the Landlords or do the landlords get penalised.

 

Is there any argument I can present in my defence.

Edited August 16, 2014 by landlor

[i hate bailiffs]

 

I only deducted small amount (£500.00) from deposit because the wear & tear

 

Really

Is that not your bill to foot

[mariner51]

What ihb means is that deposit deductions are for T damage, not FW&T which must be allowed for when assessing T damage.

 

 

Given your admission, T has a good case for deposit non-protection and 1-3x depsit amount as compensation, prob via SCC/MCoL.

Level of compensation is at Judge's discretion. Given your quick action to protect the deposit 9 months late, he may well award only 1-2x deposit amount against you. How much was orig deposit?

[landlor]

What ihb means is that deposit deductions are for T damage, not FW&T which must be allowed for when assessing T damage.

 

 

Given your admission, T has a good case for deposit non-protection and 1-3x depsit amount as compensation, prob via SCC/MCoL.

Level of compensation is at Judge's discretion. Given your quick action to protect the deposit 9 months late, he may well award only 1-2x deposit amount against you. How much was orig deposit?

 

Hey Mariner,

 

Thanks for getting back. The deposit was £700.00. What I meant by wear and tear is the damage. I had claimed more but DPS adjudicated £500.00 and we settled. So no issues there.

 

Mariner, Given that court fee itself will be around 1k+ and solicitors fee at least around £300.00, will it make sense for the tenant to claim 1-2x penalty?

Edited August 17, 2014 by landlor

[BazzaS]

Hey Mariner,

 

Thanks for getting back. The deposit was £700.00. What I meant by wear and tear is the damage. I had claimed more but DPS adjudicated £500.00 and we settled. So no issues there.

 

Mariner, Given that court fee itself will be around 1k+ and solicitors fee at least around £300.00, will it make sense for the tenant to claim 1-2x penalty?

 

The court fee will be nowhere near that for a small claims track claim in the county court.

 

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees

 

There may be no solicitor's fee : they may well be "going alone". Even if they do use a solicitor, if you have been reasonable throughout ( offering to settle for a reasonable sum, offering to go to mediation) it is by no means certain a court would order you to pay their solicitor's costs.

[landlor]

Hey Bazz, I read somewhere on this forum that the court fee for tenants could be upto 1k+. When is that the case? I can see that the cost for hearing in a multi-track court is £1050.00. Can I in any way push the settlement of the case through hearing in multi-track court?

 

Also if not the solicitor's fee, will I have to pay the court fee (whatever it is ) or does the court not order that.

[BazzaS]

Hey Bazz, I read somewhere on this forum that the court fee for tenants could be upto 1k+. When is that the case? I can see that the cost for hearing in a multi-track court is £1050.00. Can I in any way push the settlement of the case through hearing in multi-track court?

 

Also if not the solicitor's fee, will I have to pay the court fee (whatever it is ) or does the court not order that.

 

I'm confused as to why you'd want it to be multi-track when you accept that you didn't comply with what the law requires.

 

That is like turkeys voting for Xmas!

 

Costs in multi-track might well be awarded against you.

 

Loser pays the court fee, even in SCC

[ericsbrother]

Multi-track can be very expensive but the loser pays it all so dont be wishing that in the hope the costs put off a claim. Someone who is broke will get a remission of fees, freeleagal advice and so will pay nothing in the way of court fees and will be unlikely to have costa awarded against them as they judge knows that they wont be collected. On the other hand if you lose you pay everything, evne though the other side hasnt had to pay out up front.

Now, was the tenancy an AST or other tenancy? Are you in England of Scotland? If the latter the law didint come into force until recently so as legislation isnt retrospective it might not apply.

[landlor]

Someone who is broke will get a remission of fees, freeleagal advice and so will pay nothing in the way of court fees and will be unlikely to have costa awarded against them as they judge knows that they wont be collected.

 

Hey ericsbrother, i did not understand this part. Can you please explain.

 

It was an AST in England.

Edited August 17, 2014 by landlor

[Steve__M]

I don't think anyone can advise you as to what your former tenant will do.

 

What would your argument be for "pushing" to multi-track? Do you have a defence to the claim that would persuade them to move it?

 

Surely if the court accepts the claim in the small claims track you'd need to make a court application to get it moved (on the basis that the claim doesn't follow the Civil Procedure Rules?). If you apply to get it moved (when you don't have a defence) you might end up with a higher penalty because the judge has discretion based on how you behaved.

 

What does the tenant want?

 

Iamnotalawyer

[landlor]

Ah. The court procedures are so challenging.

[BazzaS]

Thanks for replies, all. This website rocks.

 

Yes, I am not happy with the adjudication made by DPS and believe I must get more as damage. And if I have to make counter-claims, will I have to pay court fee to move it in different court? FYI, the rent was all paid in full and no issues there.

 

I'm confused.

Landlor was the OP on this thread : a landlord

 

Now newlyn is thanking us for replies (the replies not being on their thread ), and newlyn appears to be a tenant ....

[landlor]

I don't think anyone can advise you as to what your former tenant will do.

 

What would your argument be for "pushing" to multi-track? Do you have a defence to the claim that would persuade them to move it?

 

Surely if the court accepts the claim in the small claims track you'd need to make a court application to get it moved (on the basis that the claim doesn't follow the Civil Procedure Rules?). If you apply to get it moved (when you don't have a defence) you might end up with a higher penalty because the judge has discretion based on how you behaved.

 

What does the tenant want?

 

Iamnotalawyer

 

Thanks for replies, all.

 

Basically I am not happy with the adjudication of DPS and if the T goes to court, I would like to counter-claim.

 

Will I have to pay the court fee if I want to make counter-claims or to move the case away from SCC?

[landlor]

Hey How come, My replies are going as newlyn.

This computer automatically logs me in as newlyn and I have had to change this a few times today morning.

 

What is newlyn, BTW. I searched in internet and it seems to be a debt collection agency.

[BazzaS]

Hey How come, My replies are going as newlyn.

This computer automatically logs me in as newlyn and I have had to change this a few times today morning.

 

What is newlyn, BTW. I searched in internet and it seems to be a debt collection agency.

 

Newlyn is a poster here, who was a tenant whose deposit wasn't protected

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?430726-How-to-chase-Landlord-for-late-deposit-protection-penalty&p=4592530#post4592530

 

That is quite a coincidence that they have been using the same computer as you!

 

Incidentally, where did you get your 1k+ costs figure from? (Since that appeared in newlyn's thread)

 

Do we have a case of multiple personality disorder here?

Newlyn & Landlor, each unaware the other exists in the same body?

 

They've both replied today on this thread with an identical "Thanks for replies, all."

 

Site team, worth checking the IP addresses, browser info and MAC's?

[BazzaS]

thanks for replies, all.

 

Basically i am not happy with the adjudication of dps and if the t goes to court, i would like to counter-claim.

 

Will i have to pay the court fee if i want to make counter-claims or to move the case away from scc?

 

qft

[landlor]

qft

 

What does qft mean?

 

I got 1k+ costs from various thread I read on here and on landlordzone website.

 

BTW, I use a cybercafe to send posts. Just asked the staff here and they said that possibly the other user had used this computer and had opted for auto-login.

 

I came in and did a reply to my thread, not realising that I am logged in as newlyn.

[Steve__M]

Sometimes it is good to try and see the problem from the other person's point of view

[landlor]

Sometimes it is good to try and see the problem from the other person's point of view

 

just missed on managing the logins this time but I almost got what I wanted. There is so much difference between the advise given to a landlord as compared to that given to a tenant. I will most likely make the claim. Its going to be £115.00 only anyway. Tenancy Deposit Advise old me that £115.00 includes cost of one hearing, which I believe should be sufficient. I will at the most break even.

Edited August 18, 2014 by landlor

[BazzaS]

What does qft mean?

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Newlyn posted something, I quoted it.

Newlyn 's comment then got changed to something else (about the court procedures being challenging) : my quote of the original remains.

 

Just in case your post, for some reason, also got edited : it was quoted so people can see what I'm referring to - it means my comments remain in context.

[BazzaS]

just missed on managing the logins this time but I almost got what I wanted. There is so much difference between the advise given to a landlord as compared to that given to a tenant. I will most likely make the claim. Its going to be £115.00 only anyway. Tenancy Deposit Advise old me that £115.00 includes cost of one hearing, which I believe should be sufficient. I will at the most break even.

 

What claim are you making?

I thought you were the one (potentially) being sued for not protecting the deposit?

[landlor]

Is it for damages to property?

[Steve__M]

Newlyn/landlor,

 

Your two alter egos described different scenarios.

 

newlyn is a tenant wondering whether he should sue landlord.

 

landlor is a landlord being sued by the tenant.

 

newlyn was already advised that issuing a claim in the SCC *may* succeed. But it may not. If the claim is accepted in the SCC, then the LL has a problem. The LL could apply to have the claim struck out or moved out of the SCC in order to put the tenant off. But if the tenant is not put off, the LL is at risk of higher costs and higher penalties for doing this.

 

The reality is that both newlyn and landlor need to be careful, and the advice given to newlyn and landlor pointed out the potential risks.

 

If you go to legal forums you will find the advice for many cases can be paraphrased thus: "The law is in your favour based on what you say, but you still have a big chance of either losing your case or of paying out more in costs than you win".

[landlor]

What is SCC? I only know Small Claims Proceeding in County-Court?

Is SCC a separate court like County-Court?

 

If not then what do you mean by SCC? Does it mean using a specific form(N1) to claim?

[Steve__M]

SCC=small claims court. Strictly speaking, it doesn't exist. You make a claim to the county court which is then allocated to a track. For small sums, the track is usually the "small claims track" which means no lawyers and not much costs.