EE bill

[lostforwords]

Good morning everyone.

I would need your advice once more please.

 

Last month my daughter went to Cuba for 1 month.

I called EE and bought a bundle which allowed 108 texts and 52 minutes calls for the price of 8 pounds.

 

Then one morning we realised our phones were set only on the "receiveing mode",

unable to send texts or make phonecalls.

 

We called EE and found out that we had a bill for 443 Pounds due to my daughter's texts.

We checked with both her phone and the receiving ones and we saw that she sent only 45 texts altogether.

 

After long and endless calls with EE and having finally checked the bill online,

we found out that the reason was that she sent LONG texts (more than 160 characters)

and each text was counted 10 or even 15 times.

 

No one ever mentioned to us this clause and we didn't know about it as in UK

we have an account with EE based on inlimited texts and unlimited calls.

Never thought about lenght of texts and characters.

 

We tried to discuss this with EE for the past 2 weeks.

We have been on the phone with an countless number of EE people.

Everyone was very supportive and promised to do something to solve this problem

but eventually disappeared.

We even sent an email to an (apparently) higher level of EE management as she promised to help,

 

just to find out that she went on holiday 3 hours after she promised to deal with our issue

and would have been back at the end of august.

 

I can't wait till the end of august as another bill will be issued meanwhile and,

as we will be on holiday, cannot afford to have our telephone line cut once more without notice.

 

This morning, after we called for the nth time,

another EE employee offered to reduce the amount to 180 pounds.

 

Question: should I accept it?

It's not fair as I have never been told anything about length of messages.

Nor we never received any warning we had exceeded our credit limit.

 

I would really appreciate your advice. Thanks.

[rebel11]

Hi lostforwords

 

No you shouldn't accept it, if you called them and this wasn't explained to you, then they have mis-sold the package to you.

 

Saying it's in the terms & conditions etc doesn't make a difference because you should have been told at the point of sale.

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/i-may-have-been-misled-by-my-mobile-phone-provider

 

Write a Formal Letter of Complaint, mark it as such. Explain what's happened (purchased plan over the phone), how they have let you down (the length of text wasn't explained to you so the plan was mis-sold, if you had been told that, you wouldn't have taken it out, not warned credit limit was exceeded, poor customer service regarding your complaint etc) and what you want them to do (reduce bill to £8 for the month). Explain that your happy to take the matter further.

 

Send it to:-

 

Ms Francoise Clemes

Chief Customer Officer

T-Mobile UK

[email protected]

 

Let us know how you get on.

[jacktheband]

This hinges on a customer's understanding of what defines a text message. A text message is 160 characters, anything more than that (e.g. 161 characters) then the phone will send it as two separate texts and the phone that receives it will then combine it back into one message. This is known as a concatenated text message.

 

From a customer's point of view "i only sent one text message". From a network's point of view "we delivered 2 text messages". I don't think that it would be appropriate to explain concatenated text messages at the point of sale, as essentially that is a phone feature and should be covered in the user guide. So, how is customer meant to know this? Basically, read the user guide for the phone (as this is a phone feature).

 

Anyway, this is building up to my point. If it's in the user guide explaining that texts over 161 characters are sent as separate texts then i can't see you have any room to manoeuvre. But if it is not mentioned in the user guide then IMO you've got the evidence to have all of these charges dropped. (this is assuming you got the phone from EE as well)

[rebel11]

What you say would make sense, but only the fact that when texts are sent within the UK the customer isn't charged for the length (161) of the text, so the customer is well within his rights to state that the plan has been mis-sold, even if the manual states that they are separate texts.

 

This hinges on a customer's understanding of what defines a text message. A text message is 160 characters, anything more than that (e.g. 161 characters) then the phone will send it as two separate texts and the phone that receives it will then combine it back into one message. This is known as a concatenated text message.

 

From a customer's point of view "i only sent one text message". From a network's point of view "we delivered 2 text messages". I don't think that it would be appropriate to explain concatenated text messages at the point of sale, as essentially that is a phone feature and should be covered in the user guide. So, how is customer meant to know this? Basically, read the user guide for the phone (as this is a phone feature).

 

Anyway, this is building up to my point. If it's in the user guide explaining that texts over 161 characters are sent as separate texts then i can't see you have any room to manoeuvre. But if it is not mentioned in the user guide then IMO you've got the evidence to have all of these charges dropped. (this is assuming you got the phone from EE as well)

[lostforwords]

Rebel11 and Jacktheband thank you both for your answers.

So what happened between the moment I started this thread and your response back to me:

my husband received yet another phonecall from EE pressing for us to accept the offer of -180 Pounds on the bill. As we never had such problems with any supplier and we have an immaculate billing record, we are not used to be in such uncomfortable situation. Being concerned that EE would have disconnected the line whilst we were on holiday (abroad) he decided to accept the reduction and eventually paid the amount required (minus 180 pounds).

Back from the office, on his way home, he stopped at the EE shop (where we did the contract for our phones) and explained to the manager our issue. The manager of the shop said he would have taken this problem in his hands. He is planning to speak to his boss, Regional Manager, in 2 days time (as the RM is on holiday at the moment) and ask him (the RM) to call my husband back and see to reduce further more the costs.

 

Now, individual replies:

@ Rebel11 - Thank you thank you!! I totally agree with you and I think that is the right path. I am just concerned that, taking a considerable amount of time, they will disconnect my phone again, as my august bill is about to be billed (23rd of August). I went to see the links you sent me and, as you rightly said, the fact that the did not tell us about text length nor they did not warn us about exceeding the limit, is clearly stated as a mistake from their side and something we can appeal against. Do you think we can still appeal against this bill once we will be back from holiday on the very same grounds you detailled here?

 

@ Jacktheband - Thank you for your input. We did buy the phones from EE but, being them IPhones, we only received the standard user guide that Apple provides. I can look into the clause you are mentioning but, if I understood well your point, I would probably stand no chance at all anyway, as if "text messages must be 160 characters" this is it anyway, written on the user guide or not. Or maybe I did not get your point correctly? On top counting the characters means also spaces, commas, dot, apostrophes...Am I right?

 

I will be leaving for my holidays tuesday morning.

Hopefully I will receive a good-news call from the RM before I leave. I will keep you updated with the new steps. If you have further advice it is welcome.

Meanwhile have a good day and thank you very much again.

[sequenci]

What you say would make sense, but only the fact that when texts are sent within the UK the customer isn't charged for the length (161) of the text, so the customer is well within his rights to state that the plan has been mis-sold, even if the manual states that they are separate texts.

 

In the UK a text is regard as 160 characters. So, lets say you get 500 free a month and send 250 at 161 characters each, that will be your full allocation gone. Of course, the lines here are a little blurred as texts are free within this particular bundle.

 

I think it's worth pushing further.

 

Full disclaimer: I worked in the mobile industry for the best part of a decade (not EE or any of their previous incarnations mind you!)

[rebel11]

In your email to the Ms Francoise Clemes, Chief Customer Office, make your complaint, explain that you will not be able to deal with the matter until you comeback from holiday. State that you are disputing the costs of the texts sent, as the plan was mis-sold.

 

Rebel11 and Jacktheband thank you both for your answers.

So what happened between the moment I started this thread and your response back to me:

my husband received yet another phonecall from EE pressing for us to accept the offer of -180 Pounds on the bill. As we never had such problems with any supplier and we have an immaculate billing record, we are not used to be in such uncomfortable situation. Being concerned that EE would have disconnected the line whilst we were on holiday (abroad) he decided to accept the reduction and eventually paid the amount required (minus 180 pounds).

Back from the office, on his way home, he stopped at the EE shop (where we did the contract for our phones) and explained to the manager our issue. The manager of the shop said he would have taken this problem in his hands. He is planning to speak to his boss, Regional Manager, in 2 days time (as the RM is on holiday at the moment) and ask him (the RM) to call my husband back and see to reduce further more the costs.

 

Now, individual replies:

@ Rebel11 - Thank you thank you!! I totally agree with you and I think that is the right path. I am just concerned that, taking a considerable amount of time, they will disconnect my phone again, as my august bill is about to be billed (23rd of August). I went to see the links you sent me and, as you rightly said, the fact that the did not tell us about text length nor they did not warn us about exceeding the limit, is clearly stated as a mistake from their side and something we can appeal against. Do you think we can still appeal against this bill once we will be back from holiday on the very same grounds you detailled here?

 

@ Jacktheband - Thank you for your input. We did buy the phones from EE but, being them IPhones, we only received the standard user guide that Apple provides. I can look into the clause you are mentioning but, if I understood well your point, I would probably stand no chance at all anyway, as if "text messages must be 160 characters" this is it anyway, written on the user guide or not. Or maybe I did not get your point correctly? On top counting the characters means also spaces, commas, dot, apostrophes...Am I right?

 

I will be leaving for my holidays tuesday morning.

Hopefully I will receive a good-news call from the RM before I leave. I will keep you updated with the new steps. If you have further advice it is welcome.

Meanwhile have a good day and thank you very much again.

[jacktheband]

Hi Lostforwords. Hopefully you'll hear good news from the RM. Especially before you go on holiday so it is not on your mind whilst you should be enjoying yourself.

 

In regards to the the 160 characters, this does include spaces, symbols, commas, etc. Most phones (iPhones included) have a 'character counter' as you write your text showing how many characters are left of the current text message. Once going over 160 characters it then will display something like "2/160", i.e. onto the 2nd text with 160 character remaining of it. This is to the right of the text as you write it, next to the send button. (Going from memory, i don't have an iPhone to hand at the moment).

 

Anyway, I've got my fingers crossed you get your desired outcome from this.

[lostforwords]

In the UK a text is regard as 160 characters. So, lets say you get 500 free a month and send 250 at 161 characters each, that will be your full allocation gone. Of course, the lines here are a little blurred as texts are free within this particular bundle.

 

I think it's worth pushing further.

 

Full disclaimer: I worked in the mobile industry for the best part of a decade (not EE or any of their previous incarnations mind you!)

 

Thank you Sequenci: precisely what I thought as we really acted in good faith about the length of the messages. On top, during one of our first phonecalls with EE, disputing the cost of the bill, we directly asked to the EE employee if the length of the message had anything to do with the overcharges and he said NO. I could prove it as EE should have our conversation recorded.. Meaning that this aspect was not clear even within the phone company employees.

[lostforwords]

Thank you Rebel11. If I won't receive any call back from RM, I will definitely write to Ms Clemes as you instructed me.

[lostforwords]

Thank you Jacktheband, that's very useful to know and I really appreciate your support. Take care.