Being made to email my advisor every day? Reasonable?

[problemswitho2]

Long/short story. Got a new advisor, and she was awful. Putting me down, being rude so I complained. She also tried to sanction me because she said she didn't think I was trying hard enough.

 

I have dyslexia and struggle with writing. And she said me written job search wasn't good enough. I'm not sure if I will lose my money or not.

 

Anyway - after complaining to the manager, the manager wanted to sit in on the meeting. She did. Well because I have removed access to my universal job match they are not making me email every day showing what I am doing.

 

Are they allowed to do this? It seems unreasonable to me.

[rebel11]

Hi problemswitho2

 

Here's some info, maybe they need to be reminded:- http://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/about-dyslexia/adults-and-business/disability-discrimination-act-.html

[problemswitho2]

Thanks Rebel.

 

The problem is, the advisor seems to have taken it as a personal insult that I won't give her access to my UJM account. My reasons for doing so are because I am looking for work and using UJM is a pain, and also because I feel that the only reason they insist on it is to make people incriminate themselves and thus sanction them!

 

However I am now in the same position with having to email her every day, showing what I am/have been doing! This really is a joke.

 

What is worst is that she admitted in front on her manager, that she was will be contacting every employed that I apply to. she even admitted that it would reduct my chances of finding a job. I feel like I am being bullied by this women.

 

What is more, I generally am just sick of her rude and condescending manner. I don't want to be on benefits and she seems to be making it as horrible as possible for me.

 

I really do want to know if they are allowed to dictate that I email EVERY day, rather than just brining my job search in every week??? Thanks.

[Chester6]

Sounds like you need to complain and you could point out she is deliberately reducing your chances as a petty vicious punishment for exercising your right to deny access

[Mr.P]

What is worst is that she admitted in front on her manager, that she was will be contacting every employed that I apply to. she even admitted that it would reduct my chances of finding a job. I feel like I am being bullied by this women.

 

I really do want to know if they are allowed to dictate that I email EVERY day, rather than just brining my job search in every week??? Thanks.

 

A couple of questions to throw back at the JCP:

 

1) Has informed consent from yourself been obtained that allows the adviser to contact any/all employer that you have listed in your job search ?

 

2) What processes are in place should your internet connection go down for any reason (i.e. hardware failure, ISP outages, other technical faults) ?

 

I'd suggest recording conversations with this "adviser" and escalating the complaint to a higher level - ALL civil servants (including front line JCP staff) have to adhere to a code of conduct that includes treating everyone with dignity and respect. If this adviser is actively interfering with your chances of securing employment (which she has admitted to), then insist that you are assigned to another adviser.

[problemswitho2]

A couple of questions to throw back at the JCP:

 

1) Has informed consent from yourself been obtained that allows the adviser to contact any/all employer that you have listed in your job search ?

 

2) What processes are in place should your internet connection go down for any reason (i.e. hardware failure, ISP outages, other technical faults) ?

 

I'd suggest recording conversations with this "adviser" and escalating the complaint to a higher level - ALL civil servants (including front line JCP staff) have to adhere to a code of conduct that includes treating everyone with dignity and respect. If this adviser is actively interfering with your chances of securing employment (which she has admitted to), then insist that you are assigned to another adviser.

 

Thanks guys.

 

I did originally complain after she told me I wasn't trying hard enough, that my standards were too high, that the course I did was pointless, that she would never have recommended it, that I was wasting my time.

 

I called up and that is why the manager was sitting in on it. The advisor tried to be nice at first, but she couldn't hold it back even with the manager sitting there. The problem is that they are obviously friends from they way they were chatting. They were just backing each other up.

 

So I've asked for a new advisor before and have got no where.

 

This women only works a couple of days a week and she clearly is from the old school. She keeps talking about "paying" me and tells me I should be grateful. I've explained that I'm not living on £70 as a lifestyle choice.

 

She is also trying to push me to apply for work which is beneath my skills level (sorry if that sounds arrogant). When I told her my last salary she said "not even we are on that". Basically she seems to think that I should apply for pot washing jobs, even though I have a professional background.

 

I am going to record her though. As I know her nasty tone will be even worst without a manager there. Do I have to tell her I am recording?

 

I do look for jobs, and am happy to show them a print off from my own log. I wanted to use my ipad to show her but was told I'd be sanctioned for that as she needs proof incase I am doing it wrong.

 

Overall I'm getting very upset by this women now. She just seems to want to put me down, and belittle me.

[rebel11]

Hi problemswitho2

 

Don't let her get you down, she probably speaks to everyone that way, she can't build rapport with that approach, she needs to treat everyone as an individual, from the sound of it she's beyond retraining. Remember the guys are here to advise.

[problemswitho2]

Okay - so I am going to continue to send her emails everyday. Because I can't afford to lose my benefit. However I don't even know if I am getting my benefits yet.

 

She sent off for me to be sanctioned last tuesday - and I havn't heard back. She claims I will get a letter when I get a letter. And says she doesn't know. However I won't get any benefits til the decision makes makes his/her mind up. How long does this usually take?

 

Also I do have all the equipment to do a covert recording. So I think I shall do that. I'll let her say whatever she has to say and then send a copy to the manager asking her what is she going to do about it. Hopefully I'll get my money and I will also get a new advisor. But maybe that's me trying to be too positive .

[rebel11]

I'm not sure how long it takes, but keep positive. Update us when you get bad attitude from her recorded.

[problemswitho2]

I'm not sure how long it takes, but keep positive. Update us when you get bad attitude from her recorded.

 

If I am allowed I will post the recording (obviously removing anything confidential).

[rebel11]

Check with Admin before you do that.

 

If I am allowed I will post the recording (obviously removing anything confidential).

[jasta11]

What is worst is that she admitted in front on her manager, that she was will be contacting every employed that I apply to.

 

Both the adviser AND the manager need reporting..the adviser for saying that (and not knowing her own guidance), and the manager for not immediately telling her she's not allowed to do that unless the jobs are matched vacancies, which means ones she or the JC found for you and told you formally to apply for. If it's a vacancy you found yourself they have no power at all to contact employers unless you said they could - and you never do this as their interfering could jeopardise a potential job.

 

Here's a link to the DWP guidance which clearly states they can't just check up on any job; There's 2 replies from DWP Central Office, you want the second one called FOI Omotoso Guidance. Page 2 of this document has the bit about only being able to contact employers if it's a matched vacancy.

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/feedback_from_employers_about_cl#incoming-311623

 

I'd be inclined to print it out and show the manager with the subtle hint that if he doesn't change your adviser, you're going to report the two of them for deliberately not following DWP guidance and potential breaches of your personal data - which is a serious offence indeed. (I'd report the two of them anyway, no matter what they do as I lost any sympathy towards the JC a long time ago.)

 

As for recording them, you don't have to tell them anything; just do it and transcribe anything incriminating into a nice letter of complaint.

[problemswitho2]

Both the adviser AND the manager need reporting..the adviser for saying that (and not knowing her own guidance), and the manager for not immediately telling her she's not allowed to do that unless the jobs are matched vacancies, which means ones she or the JC found for you and told you formally to apply for. If it's a vacancy you found yourself they have no power at all to contact employers unless you said they could - and you never do this as their interfering could jeopardise a potential job.

 

Here's a link to the DWP guidance which clearly states they can't just check up on any job; There's 2 replies from DWP Central Office, you want the second one called FOI Omotoso Guidance. Page 2 of this document has the bit about only being able to contact employers if it's a matched vacancy.

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/feedback_from_employers_about_cl#incoming-311623

 

I'd be inclined to print it out and show the manager with the subtle hint that if he doesn't change your adviser, you're going to report the two of them for deliberately not following DWP guidance and potential breaches of your personal data - which is a serious offence indeed. (I'd report the two of them anyway, no matter what they do as I lost any sympathy towards the JC a long time ago.)

 

As for recording them, you don't have to tell them anything; just do it and transcribe anything incriminating into a nice letter of complaint.

 

You are a legend. Here is my plan of attack - I am going to wire myself up (luckily I have this equipment as I was a videographer in another life). And then I'll give her the document. With a little luck she will incriminate herself, and then I can go straight to the manager with both this document and also the recording of her ignoring it and treating me like dirt. My aim here is to get another advisor - and I think with this I will get that.

 

It's a shame there isn't a similar rule for her making me email my jobsearch every day.

[biggeorge]

Some sound advice given here but I have a little more.

 

When you were told to supply job search each day via email were you given a MAN letter or was this just told to you by an excuse of an adviser, Verbally.

If you were not given a MAN, A direction letter, YOU don't have to supply this information via email at all and can't be sanctioned for it.

 

How you provide your job search is down to you, I normally supplied my job search each fortnight printed out from an excel file and never had a problem.

Have enclosed a copy for you so you can remove some data and add your own.

 

Your adviser is not been reasonable or taking any of your circumstances into account.

 

1: I would be advising your adviser that you now only have limited internet access service so her request to provide job search via email each day is not possible and you will

now supply your job search via the excel file if you have a printer on each signing day, Do not include any telephone numbers for any employers you put down.

 

2: Most definitely record this person when attending, All recordings can be transcribed and used as evidence if she steps out of line.

 

3: While it is normally easier to record in secret, with the problems your having with this adviser you best option may be to write to the manager at the JCP with a complaint

about her and explaining that you want to record each and every appointment you have at the JCP, You are allowed to record your interactions with them.

You will either find that this person will not want to be recorded so you will get an adviser change or if she agrees to be recorded her whole attitude towards you will change.

 

4: Never never give them access to your UJM account and make sure they are fully aware that they do not have your permission to contact any of the job search applications you provide, This

could be implemented into your complaint letter with your request to start recording all interactions.

 

Hope you get this sorted out as I fully understand how bad it is now when attending JCP.

 

George

 

Copy of my excel file I use as a template, Remove data and add your own - Never been told that it isn't good enough

 

http://www.marshall-hosting.co.uk/jcp/jobsearch.xlsx

[biggeorge]

Just found some links, Could be good for you.

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/recording_an_interview_with_a_be

 

http://welfaretales.wordpress.com/2014/03/16/what-happened-when-she-recorded-her-jobcenter-interview/

[fletch70]

The line about receiving money or being paid seems to be the message coming down from on high. I do not agree with what she is doing but all employees have to tow the party line if they want security. I personally think the biggest stronger is the man at the top who apparently claimed £36 for a breakfast. That's half a weeks benefit for gods sake

[dyfed]

With no computer, internet or telephone there aint a cat in hells chance they would get me emailing them.

My philosophy is to give them as little information about me as possible. Less hoops to jump through=less chance they can sanction you.

[Mr.P]

When you were told to supply job search each day via email were you given a MAN letter or was this just told to you by an excuse of an adviser, Verbally.

If you were not given a MAN, A direction letter, YOU don't have to supply this information via email at all and can't be sanctioned for it.

 

Whilst this would be applicable if it were a Work Programme clerk issuing the demand, a JCP "employment adviser" can issue a Job Seeker's Direction verbally. However, it must be recorded on the LMS computer at the time and not at a later date. Simply put, ignoring a JCP adviser is a fast track to a sanction.

 

If anyone is given a vebal JSD, it is good advice to insist that it is put in writing - Should there be any disagreements, one has a hard copy as evidence.

[sillygirl1]

May I state that (with personal knowledge of this having worked in HR departments) if a DWP person phones up asking if somebody has applied for a post they will be told where to go... they will NOT be given the information in 99% of cases. This is a psychological harrassment technique to make you feel 'guilty' for NOT applying for jobs via UJM.

 

When they gave me jobs on UJM they were either already closed due to the no of applicants (I printed out the screenshots and gave them to them) or were extremely junior training posts - as I have been a PA to a Deputy Director of a large hospital I was rather miffed at being offered a 'junior secretarial' position - I explained why I was unsuitable for the posts.

 

There is a lot of talk about the DWP insisting they can 'contact prospective employers for info about applicants' - unless the employer has specifically given them dispensation for this then there is NO information the DWP can obtain by phoning an employer and asking 'Has x actually applied for a post'.

 

This is why I insisted email job applications were my best route, there was 'no proof' if I sent in an application it would be seen, and from the email applications I had a greater success rate.

[jasta11]

It's a shame there isn't a similar rule for her making me email my jobsearch every day.

 

You could ask how many other customers are having to do this and if it turns out it's only you, then a complaint of victimisation might be in order. Remember, the core principle of being an adviser is that everything they do has to be reasonable and for the customer's benefit to get them a job or improve their skills.

 

Making someone email their jobsearch every single day sounds to me like she's just picking on you and misusing what power she has.

[problemswitho2]

You could ask how many other customers are having to do this and if it turns out it's only you, then a complaint of victimisation might be in order. Remember, the core principle of being an adviser is that everything they do has to be reasonable and for the customer's benefit to get them a job or improve their skills.

 

Making someone email their jobsearch every single day sounds to me like she's just picking on you and misusing what power she has.

 

She said in front of her manager than "all my other clients are happy to use UJM and give me access, so they don't need to do this'.

 

Oh well - one email a day isn't going to kill me. Just looking forward to showing her she can't go to all the jobs I apply for!

[jasta11]

So what she's saying is that, because you won't give her access to your UJ account - which is your right - she's picking on you. I can't understand why she can't be happy with your fortnightly jobsearch evidence, each time you sign on. I don't know anyone else who's been asked to submit daily evidence.

 

It's not even up to the advisers how you show your jobsearch, as long as it satisfies the requirements of your JS Agreement. Chapter 3 of the Universal Jobmatch Toolkit (which all advisers should have but few seem to have actually read) clearly states;

 

Actively Seeking Employment

82. We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this.

 

So basically it's entirely up to you how you show your evidence, as long as you show that you've done enough. For example, my own JS Agreement states I have to apply for 5 jobs a week=10 per fortnight. It's always best to do more so when I sign on I show screenprints of 50+ vacancies so they definitely can't argue with that as it's 5 times more than required.