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White Moss Car Park - Parking With Ease (NOT) **Won at IAS**


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Travelling in a party of 2 cars, we opted to stay for a short break in the White Moss car park operated by Parking with Ease. We were aware of the T&Cs as I actually checked on entry, and we knew we had 20 minutes free of charge.

 

With just under 5 minutes to spare, we entered details of car 1 in the machine and were advised that no payment was necessary as we had a few minutes to spare. Car 2's details had not registered on entry however - we tried several times and ended up coming back to the second car to double check the registration (not our car so not one of those things you easily recall!).

 

On returning to the machine we waited for another couple to complete their transaction. They had payment issues and their cash was not accepted - they ended up paying by card (eventually) and were frustrated that the trouble had taken them into the next payment bracket. ISSUE 1 - PROBLEMS WITH THE PAYMENT MACHINE CAUSING DELAYS IN PROCESSING TIME.

 

We tried our second registration details again but to no avail. ISSUE 2 - THE CCTV HAD FAILED TO CAPTURE THE REGISTRATION DETAILS.

 

We double checked the notice in the hope that we could call someone for advice - nothing! Satisfied that we had done our best to be honest and law abiding citizens we left.

 

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I received a Parking Charge - Notice to Keeper dated 26 days later than the alleged offence, and received 3 days after the letter date (29 days after the incident). I was advised that our car (the initial car that we had entered successfully into the system) had run over by 30 seconds and that due to non-payment of parking, we were being charged £50 (£25 if paid within 14 days of the date of the letter).

 

The charge for 20 minutes and 30 seconds would have been £2!!

 

I called the Citizens Advice Bureau who were quite helpful and advised me to appeal.

 

I appealed immediately, stating the facts detailed above and asking a number of questions regarding:

- Whether the CCTV covers the payment machine (as the facts would be obvious to anyone viewing footage)

- Details of PwE's Accredited Trade Association membership

- Their policy for cases when car details have not been captured

 

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5 days later an email confirmed that my appeal had been rejected on the grounds that it is a pay on exit car park and that we had overrun the 20 minute grace period. I was also advised that there is a 48 hour period to pay for parking online. A number of my other questions remained unanswered however, and I was reminded how to pay the charge online!!! Details of appealing to the IAS were also included.

 

I was disappointed but frustrated as I really believe that in terms of a 'contract' it is PwE who have not fulfilled their part of the bargain in terms of providing the means by which to use the facilities in a fair way. As well as the 2 issues raised above - ISSUE 3 - I AM NOT TELEPATHIC AND WOULD NOT EXPECT TO HAVE TO LOG ONLINE TO CHECK FOR A PARKING CHARGE THAT I WAS UNAWARE EXISTED!

 

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I appealed to the IAS yesterday and am now awaiting a response. I also asked PwE for further information regarding the questions they failed to answer first time round. I have also contacted Watchdog and the Lowther Estate office who own the car park. I will be contacting the DVLA and Information Commissioner later today.

 

---

 

So much for trying to do the right thing eh?! Perhaps I should invoice PwE for £50 for my time wasted!! £100 if not paid by yesterday.

 

Any thoughts and advice welcome.

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Do they belong to the British Parking Association? It is NOT a ticket. It is an invoice and is probably headed Parking Charge Notice and not Penalty Charge Notice. By the way even if there was a barrier in place and you were not able to pay, if you were not able to leave it would have been false imprisonment a serious charge.

I suggest you ask them to show how the actions of the motorist had caused a loss, or genuine pre-estimate of loss and also to provide a copy of the contract that entitles them to act on behalf of the landowner.

You are doing the correct thing by not paying these cowboys anything.

Have a read here by clicking on the link. LINK

 

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Not sure if they belong to the BPA. I'll try and find out!!

I know it's not a ticket as I've done a fair bit of reading around but thanks for pointing this out again.

There is no barrier here - you can leave freely. Interesting though - if the main road is really busy and you're queuing to leave the car park, you could be charged for the privilege!!!!

I like your suggestion and will mail them again today to ask for further information.

Sorry - IAS - Independent Appeals Service.

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Hi and welcome to CAG

 

PWE as you have correctly pointed out are not part of the BPA. The are part of the smaller group. (IPC)

 

My initial thoughts are that as this was an ANPR ticket, you should have received this within 14 days of the alleged offence. 26 days later?? (unless this was a hire car)

 

The IAS are not that good (in my opinion) and they don't uphold many appeals (as far as I am aware) but even if they did throw out your appeal, PWE would have to take court action to get the money. This would cost them more in unclaimable costs than they would get from you (IF they won)

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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The IAS does not allow you to add to your appeal once submitted...

So we will have to wait to see what they decide.

But it is not binding on you, and you can treate the decision how you wish.

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AS PWE failed to answer some of your questions it does rather damage any chances of a claim via the courts further down the line. The ANPR NTK out of time should kill that anyway. As for a ticket for 20 seconds, can they prove that you parked for that time or does it include the time taken to pass through the gates and cameras to register your reg No? Absolutely no chance they will ever win this at a small claims hearing if defended so I wouldnt worry too much about what the IAS say as they are employed by the parking industry becuase too many motorists were winning their appeals at POPLA.

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GREAT NEWS - We won the IAS appeal!!!

Thanks to all who gave advice.

To anyone going through a similar process I would recommend the following:

 

- Submit a clear and succinct summary of the facts and highlight the key points of appeal

- If you have any evidence then submit it - photographs, witness statements, etc. Although I didn't have any of these I felt that my submission was a little sparse

- Do everything promptly - don't forget that the appeal window is always reducing and other parties may take days to get back to you

- Have faith that if you think you have been unfairly treated as a consumer, you probably have and should stand your ground

- Don't forget there are other people out there who can help - Citizens Advice Bureau, the landowner, your local MP, BBC Watchdog, local councils, local press organisations and online forums ... There's often someone who has been through it and can advise, and there may be someone who has the power to stop organisations such as Park with Ease from treating people with such blatant disrespect.

 

Good luck!!

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm battling them too. Parked there....paid at the machine (in cash)....got a letter asking for £50. They cocked up the appeal process....they have to log you with the IAS before you can use their appeal process. That appeal isn't binding though....because this is all based on contract law.

The car park is now owned by Lowther Estates btw....I've suggested to them that they may not want to be associated with a company like PwE. They aren't a member of the BPA....they're a member of a much smaller spin off, born 12 months ago....called the Independent Parking Committee (a title which smacks of desperation).

 

I'm not at all clear on what the process is from arriving at the car park to leaving....what information you have to enter into the ticket machine etc. There's a story also on various web pages about someone (like me) who paid but still got the letter alleging breach of contract. Google "Ticket the old, they'll always pay".

 

It's pretty tough for your average honest punter....you park in good faith....pay in good faith....then get caught up in the sh*tty stress of having to fire off emails and have threats of court action. You have nothing to defend yourselves with. I don't know if the ticket machine prints off a receipt....but even if it does....who keeps them. I'd love to know how many demands for breach of contract these guys send out.

 

I'm hoping I'm in a pretty strong position....mainly because they've denied me my right to appeal by failing to log my details with the IPA.

 

I've also emailed the MP & MEP for Grasmere just on the off chance that they care less.

I'll post what ultimately happens.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update: The land is now owned by The Lowther Estate.

 

 

I approached them directly.

 

 

I got replies from both the MPs who agree..

 

 

..this approach does nothing to encourage visitors to the LD.

 

 

Heard nothing more from PwE since.

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  • 2 months later...

Did you get a windscreen ticket ?????

Is this the first letter you have received ?????

 

If so it's 120 days since the "offence".......

They are "Timed out".

Edited by f16
Post was for Martynsa thread
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  • 2 months later...

I guess everybody heard the news today. I can't post a link....but go to the BBC or to the RAC Foundation News Releases page. Awaiting the upcoming test case with interest. I've just received the solicitor's letter from the firm representing Park with Ease.

 

Looks like good news!!

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It has never been illegal for them to issue the tickets however whether they enforce them or not is another question. IMHO they are targeting the wrong people. They should be targeting the DVLA for releasing the registered keepers details without justification and it makes one be very suspicious about giving details to any government agency. Cut off the flow of info to the PPC and the problem is solved.

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Jumping on the Beavis case band wagon?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31545417

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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  • 6 months later...

Hi

I found Park with Ease pursued the matter aggressively and did not listen to anything I had to say. Solicitor/debt collector letters started coming very quickly even though I pointed out that there was a delay of a month before I got my "ticket" from PwE.

I contacted [unauthorised link removed], paid £16 and never heard from them again (touch wood! That was in June)

 

Good luck. x

Edited by honeybee13
Company name removed.
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Hi Ericsbrother, just wondering... if the date of posting is down as the 18th August then won't the date of delivery be deemed to be two working days later (20th August) under the 1978 Interpretation Act, making the PPC's NTK just in time? I hope they are out of time but just wondering.

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the date of posting wasnt the 18th, that was the date on the letter. they could have put any date after the 6th and still not posted it. You did not receive it until the 24th and that is that. The interpretatrion act says that it arrived should you claim it didnt. Your argument is that it arrived on the 24th and was thus timed out. Let them prove it wa in the postal system by the date on the letter, it is their claim to prove, not the other way round. TBH, a judge wouldnt disbelieve that a letter sent out on the final day to do so didnt arrive within a day of posting and having no sunday postal delivery is not an excuse for lateness on their part. PWE have harly ever sent out their paperwork in time so why give them a stick to beat you with. Make them provide proof of posting if they are going to claim that they did send it out in time (dont put this in your appeal, save that for later).

The appeals process is a drawn out affair so we dont waste much energy on the parking co because it is not in their interests to agree with you and lose money. Make them pay for an appeal to the ATA and then dont pay them anyway.

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  • 1 month later...

I did this but they are still emailing me saying they'll continue to email me until we pay. I've emailed them back re-stating their breach of the act and also stating that they didn't give up the right to appeal because they failed to pass our details onto the IAS.

 

the date of posting wasnt the 18th, that was the date on the letter. they could have put any date after the 6th and still not posted it. You did not receive it until the 24th and that is that. The interpretatrion act says that it arrived should you claim it didnt. Your argument is that it arrived on the 24th and was thus timed out. Let them prove it wa in the postal system by the date on the letter, it is their claim to prove, not the other way round. TBH, a judge wouldnt disbelieve that a letter sent out on the final day to do so didnt arrive within a day of posting and having no sunday postal delivery is not an excuse for lateness on their part. PWE have harly ever sent out their paperwork in time so why give them a stick to beat you with. Make them provide proof of posting if they are going to claim that they did send it out in time (dont put this in your appeal, save that for later).

The appeals process is a drawn out affair so we dont waste much energy on the parking co because it is not in their interests to agree with you and lose money. Make them pay for an appeal to the ATA and then dont pay them anyway.

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The write to them and tell them that you WILL report them for harassment as both a criminal offence and civil tort if they do not desist. You can also report to actionfraud over the telephone for attempted fraud by misrepresentation. You will be given a crime ref which you should add to your cease and desist letter. That way they know you will not be a soft touch.

Block their email addy as well, you dont have to put up with their rubbish

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Does this apply even if we now know we should have paid for the parking? We thought it was free to park there originally because it used to be owned by the National Trust and we thought it still was so parked there as members. Also don't want to risk blocking their emails and then ending up with a court summons.

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