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    • You are wonderful, Dave!!   I shall get the WS drafted soon as I can! Thank you so much for your help!
    • I thought they were not allowing people to sign for recorded delivery/special delivery now meaning it could still be argued that they ever received it     
    • Don't worry about the questions - that's what we're here for.   I'll try and flesh out the arguments and answer your questions at the same time.  Let's use "I" to refer to your mum as it's her WS.   1.  Sequence of events Describe briefly that the driver parked in the retail park and visited Citygate garage, thinking it was part of the retail park.  Upon return to the vehicle there was no windscreen ticket or indication of any infringement.  Later I received a PCN for parking in a restricted area, then various threatening letters, after a Letter Before Action which I replied to and finally a claim form.   2.  Locus standi VCS are not the landowner.  The contract they have provided is not with the landowner, it is with another company, it ran out in 2018, the company it is with went into liquidation in 2019, the contract cannot possibly be valid.   3.  No keeper liability VCS should be suing the driver, they have not established keeper liability under POFA (you know all about the 29-56 day stuff, quote it all from POFA).   (Yes!  Good find on their sign!  Include the sign and say VCS maintain they have images that can identify the driver and yet have not identified me as such).   (Yes, keep it vague as to who was driving, it's up to VCS to prove, not you.  They could easily have used POFA correctly but have complete contempt for the law so haven't).   4.  Planning permission VCS go to great pains in their WS to emphasise their signage, none of which I disagree with.  However I do not believe they have planning permission for these signs which is a criminal offence under Town and Country [Advertisements} regulations and means no contract could be formed.  I have requested proof of planning permission from VCS by means of a CPR request but they have not replied.  I have searched XXXXX council planning portal and I cannot find planning permission for the signs.  Their CoP incudes that they must obtain all legal permissions yet they have not done so (look up the bit on the IPC CoP):   (You can't prove a negative.  The work you've done here is more than enough.  They have to prove they have planning permission yet have not).   5.  Predatory practises These are forbidden by the CoP (again, look the section up) (a)  The driver did not find the Notice to Driver on their return to the car although it appears in VCS's photos.  As the car park is patrolled, it is unlikely that a member of the public removed it.  I believe the patrol officer photographed it and removed it.  This is a well-known tactic used by PPCs so that the motorist misses the chance to pay during the discounted period.  I enclose a statement by Mr XXXXX which confirms what i say. (b)  The driver visited Citygate garage which is a matter of metres away from the retail site, in fact the driver thought it to be part of the site.  The patrol officer could easily have mitigated the loss by informing the driver of their mistake, yet did not. (c)  The parking violation alleged was to have left the site, yet the PCN is for a completely different violation, parking in a restricted area.  The area was not restricted, there were no permits to show or payment to be made, it is a free public car park.  This error was made either out of incompetence or deliberately to confuse me and make it impossible to appeal.  In any case in their WS VCS are alleging a completely different breach of contract that that stated in their PCN and in all their previous correspondence I would point out that the patrol officer will not attend the hearing so I will not be able to cross examine him, and I am confident that neither will the WS author since from research I have carried out I have discovered that neither Ambreen Arshad nor Mohammed Wali (VCS's other paralegal) who always write the company's WSs ever attend hearings, presumably to avoid cross examination.  Its is especially easy to attend on-line hearings during the COVID pandemic as no travelling is involved.   6.  Unicorn Food Tax Easy, copy from Alaska 101
    • Good evening. thank you for the add. I have a problem with returning a Dell laptop within a 14 day cooling off period. I bought it online on the Dell uk website, and it was delivered to me on the 6th of September. I could not set it up because I was stuck at one of the steps (got the frozen screen and I could not get past it waiting for hours for something to happen). Then I contacted Dell Technical Support. I spent over 4 hours with their advisors on the phone and whatsapp and they could not help me to resolve this problem. So there seems to be a software( or hardware?) issue and I want to return it. I have tried to arrange a return thru the Dell website by picking the date, however, I did not receive any email confirmation of this and nobody showed up on the day. I phoned and emailed and they said I could not return it. Earlier this week I have contacted both their customer service and complaints emails with no success. They are not giving me their returns address. The guy in the 2nd email was trying to offer me a £130 off voucher but never got back to me with the returns address in the UK. I have used the Resolver  site yesterday to write another complaint quoting Dells own returns policy as well as the Comsumer Rights. My return window is running out. What can I do now?
    • FKofilee - thank you we got a fair deal if I am honest due to my daughters mental health issues it was better than I thought I would get because as was correctly pointed out to me as long as she is out of the toxic environment with a reference that is better than trying to prove bullying etc.    At least now we can move on.   To everyone, thank you for the comments about the reference think it was just the over protective Dad in me, I do not want any one to think ill of my daughter as her issues were caused by abusers who told her if she told me I would end up in prison not them which is something I will always feel guilty about as she suffered in silence. She knew I would have taught them that some people are capable of hitting back and may well not have stopped at simply giving them a taste of their own medicine. Unfortunately as a father of three girls I have found out the hard way I can not protect them from everything but we try to turn the page and move on.
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Used Car refund trouble ***Resolved***


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I bought a £4000 car with 4 wheel drive from a dealer 50 miles away. After just 1 day and 100 miles the drive belt started making a horrid racket and at 147 miles the front drive shaft started clicking and I was unable to drive the car.


I rang and after several calls the car was collected and taken back for them to repair.


2 more days passed and the car was ready so I picked it up just before closing and started to drive home. At the first oppotunity to drive at 50 mph I noticed a really strong vibration that was not there before. I tried to get back but they had closed.


I returned as they opened the following morning and after explaining the problem was offered to take it myself to the mechanic for a test drive, another 15 miles away.

It was test drove and the mechanic led me to believe the noise and vibration was down to tyre wear. I asked what work had been carried out and he confirmed the drive shaft had been repaired correctly and a new water pump and belt fixed the noise.


I drove home not entirely convinced that the driveshaft had been done I had an inspection done and the following was found:


The front hub/driveshaft now did not freewheel in 2 wheel drive mode and appears locked to the hub, this causes the driveshaft front diff and propshaft to turn and is the reason for the vibration at 50 mph as the car can not be driven in 4 wheel mode above 40mph as stated in the handbook.


In addition it was noted the other side is free wheeling in both 2 and 4 wheel drives modes so is also faulty.


The steering rack is leaking fluid badly.

The fuel tank is leaking.

The noisy drive belt has returned so the new belt and pump has not fixed the problem.


I rang the dealers and asked for a refund and was told no chance. Bring it in and I will repair it. The fact that both repairs done before seem to have been done on the cheap does not fill me with confidence that it will be repaired correctly and problems are going to continue well into the future.


I asked for the car to be collected and was told no just top up the steering fluid and drive it to the Mechanics workshop don't bring it here.

I did drive it back to him not the mechanic after all thats where I got it from. On dropping it off I asked again for a refund and the answer was no although I could have an exchange, but as they have no similar sized, age, mileage or value stock it was impossible.


I then said I wish to reject the car to which I got the reply I not taking back, I don't have to go on the TS website and read the sub sections attached to that part of the sales of goods act. Rather than argue and longer I left.


And here I am, car less I did not ask for a loan car, I did the first time round and was left a car with no rear brakes (you could hear then grinding) and bald front tyre.


Rightly or wrongly I left him a letter with all the faults and dates along with a written request for a full refund as I was rejecting the car.


Should I resend the letter again via recorded post?

Do I need proof that the dealer has been given the rejection and refund request?

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Thanks for your reply,

The car was paid via part x £1500 and the rest paid by debt Card, no finance taken, the car is now with the dealer.


This is the copy letter I left with him.




On18/07/2014 I purchased, and took delivery of, the above vehicle a Ssangyong Kyron from you.

On 20/07/2014 I discovered that it was not of satisfactory quality:


On the 20/07/2014 the drive belt started making lots of noise.


On the 21/07/2014 just 3 days after first getting the vehicle the front drive shaft started making a clicking sound and I was unable to drive it.


The following day 22/07/2014 I rang explained the problem and the car was taken in by truck to be repaired, the loan car left with me had no rear brakes as you could hear them grinding and bald front tyres. Rather than risking using the car to get to and from work I took some time off instead.


Friday 25/07/2014 I collected the vehicle just before closing and after driving out of town and the first chance to drive at 50mph I noticed a drumming vibration, but as you had closed I could not return the vehicle the same day. I did however did return on 26/07/2014 as you opened and explaining the problem you were not very helpful saying that your mechanic would have repaired it correctly and your driver who drove the car back to your dealership stated that it was ok. I asked for a refund and you only gave the option of exchange, but as you had nothing of similar size, type or value this was impossible.


After talking to Tony the salesman who sold me the car I was offered the opportunity for your mechanic to test drive the car, I agreed and met with him. He took it for a drive and suggested that tyre wear was to blame and pointing out that the repair was done correctly and the car had been run up and tested while on the lift in the workshop.


Not entirely happy with the answer I have taken the vehicle to a local garage and the result was not the one I was hoping for.

Attached is a copy of the invoice/report for the inspection of the hub, as stated both front vacuum parts of the hubs N/S and O/S are corroded beyond serviceable condition and will never hold a vacuum.


The work carried out by your mechanic was well below the standard expected and the only true course of action to fixing the problem was to have fitted a new vacuum part to the hub and if damaged a new hub and drive shaft.

The repair to the drivers side hub and drive shaft was not carried out correctly because rather than free wheeling as it should in 2 wheel drive mode the hub turns along with the drive shafts, front diff and propshaft, the spinning of these parts in 2 wheel drive mode is the cause of the drumming vibration as the 4 wheel drive system should not be driven above 40mph as stated in the handbook.


It is also noted that the passenger side front hub is free wheeling in both 2 and 4 wheel drive modes again the vacuum part of the hub is likely to blame judging by its condition and would also needs a new one and if required also a hub and drive shaft.

Without proper repair to both N/S and O/S front hubs the 2 wheel, 4 wheel drive options of this car will never work correctly, the 2 wheel, 4 wheel drive option was the main reason for buying this car.


In addition:

The steering rack is leaking fluid (lots)

The fuel tank is leaking.

The noisy drive belt is back. (the new water pump and belt has not cured the problem)


I would also like to point out that the central locking/alarm does not work correctly, and makes it impossible on increasing occurrences to secure the car. After locking the drivers door via the key as it does not lock via the alarm fob the whole car unlocks after 20 – 30 seconds.


My phone call to you on the 01/08/2014 regarding the faults and informing you that I was rejecting the car because of them was returned and once again you made it clear that a refund will not happen.


Section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 requires dealers to supply goods of satisfactory quality. However, the vehicle is clearly un-roadworthy due to the issues listed above it was parked on my driveway and returned to you on the 02/08/2014 and no longer is being used by myself. You are therefore in breach of contract.

With potential repair costs of over £2000 I am seeking a Full Refund.


I am legally entitled to reject the vehicle and to be reimbursed for its full purchase price of £3995.00

Or return of my part-x and £2495.00.

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I think that you have handled it very well so far. You have made everything very clear. You have reacted quickly. You have put it all down in writing. And you have communicated it all to the seller.


Has he still got your car? Or has he sold it?


If he has still got the car then it will probably be less complicated to insist on the return of the car.


If he has alreadysold it then you are going to have to settle for the return of the money as you have outlined above. However, if he has not sold the car then I think that you can legitimately say that the car still belongs to you and that if he proceeds to sell it even though you have now rejected the contract, I expect that you have a good basis for claiming back either the price that he sells the car for, or the value of it that he gave you credit for plus your cash payment – whichever is the greater.


I think that your next move today is to go and check whether he has still got your car on his forecourt. If he does have it then I would go and take photographs of it so that the condition of it is clear – so that there is no danger that if the car is returned to you, that it might be in some damage state.


If he does have a car then you need to write to him immediately and deliver the letter by hand so that he has it to day. Your letter should confirm again your rejection of the contract but also now make it very clear to him that as the contract has been annulled, that the annulment includes the the cancellation of the transfer of your car to him. Tell him that the rejection now means that the car still belongs to you and that you want it back and that he is forbidden from selling it. Tell him that if he will not let you have the car back, that you will inform the police as to a possible theft and then also you will contact the DVLA immediately and inform them that somebody may be trying to reregister a car which still belongs to you they should block it. Make it clear to him that if he tries to sell your car to a new purchaser, that it will become extremely complicated for the purchaser and for him. Also, telling that you are prepared to take a legal action to force him to pay you not only the cost of the car but also any profits he makes on it.


If the dealer refuses to throw in the towel then I'm afraid that you should be taking a legal action. This is not difficult and on the basis of what you say and on the basis of the way you have handled it, your chances of success are better than 90%.


Normally speaking you need to give the dealer 14 days to negotiate with you and to come to an agreement before starting a legal action. This can be changed depending on the circumstances. I think that you will need to prevent the sale of your car is a good basis for avoiding the 14 day rule.


In your letter to him you should tell him that you will be taking the three days – that means you will be issuing a claim on Thursday morning if he will not return your car and your money.


Tell him that if he will not return your car and your money that you will sue him for the return of your money and also for Conversion under the Torts (Wrongful Interference with Goods) Act.


Conversion is a legal action which deals with the problem where somebody takes your goods and treats them as their own. It is about converting your ownership into their ownership.


Only make this threat if you are prepared to go ahead with it. Do not bluff. We will help you prepare the documents on this thread. You will find it is very easy stop there will be an initial claim fee of about £250. There will be a few more fees down the line but when you win you would recover these.


Let us know what you want to do

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Just to add, if the dealer isn't co-operating, as you paid by Debit Card, you can carry out a Chargeback for the £2495.


Contact your Card Provider, amend the following template (scroll down), send it Recorded Delivery.




Then a case of recovering £1,500, plus costs through the courts or they hand back your old car.


A court will want to see that you've tried everything to resolve this matter, so as Bankfodder has stated send a Letter before Action, send it

Recorded Delivery.



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As I traded in a perfectly good car I don't mind getting it back and company website still has it listed for sale.

I was unaware that Debit cards carried any weight as regards charge backs.


In the mean time if he calls and has repaired the car do I have to pick it back up?

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No, you've rejected it under SOGA 1979. You gave them the opportunity previously to repair, but they carried out sub-standard repairs.


As I traded in a perfectly good car I don't mind getting it back and company website still has it listed for sale.

I was unaware that Debit cards carried any weight as regards charge backs.


In the mean time if he calls and has repaired the car do I have to pivk it back up?

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Well - done. Must be a decent guy after all

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Well I must say what a nice guy maybe a case of split personality, Very pleasant swapped paper work, paid refund back onto the card it was taken from, all done within 5 mins and driving away.


Thank you all and can you point me to the donation page of the website please.


HaHa I see where now thanks to the link above ^^^

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Well I must say what a nice guy maybe a case of split personality, Very pleasant swapped paper work, paid refund back onto the card it was taken from, all done within 5 mins and driving away.


Thank you all and can you point me to the donation page of the website please.


HaHa I see where now thanks to the link above ^^^


We received a donation from you.


Thank you very much

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Your very welcome, and no real need to thank me, the praise goes to this wonderful collection of information and the help that is provided.


Just been looking around and the amount of users saying they will donate but seem to vanish seem unfairly large. This resource would be missed by many if it was lost.

The fact that some people have saved thousands and can't spare just a few quid has me quite rattled. Although a donation is just that and its down to personal choice.


Rant over....... Thanks again.

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