Shortfall after sale of business premises

[Frantic50]

Yes, as you will have gathered from my thread, our issues are with Lloyds too. Property was sold at auction very shortly after they took it over. Apparently they thought it best in order to save me having to pay interest. Yes, right, seeing as they have left me with a huge shortfall, didn't really help did it. Not to mention the £6K interest Lloyds are charging me. The whole thing stinks. I wonder if you LPA was the same company as I had.

[dogdays]

Would be interesting if it was the same LPA receiver, even more interesting if the sale was completed by the same solicitor, I think you will find some MP's are aware of the goings on, so it may be worth you talking to your MP

[Frantic50]

Have already contacted my MP and I am awaiting his response. See what that brings. Be grateful if you keep posting anything you think could be useful to anyone in similar position and I'll certainly do likewise.

[Frantic50]

Well Lloyds never cease to amaze me. As discussed above in this tread Lloyds repossessed my business premises, appointed an LPA Receiver and it was sold for considerably less than it was worth which then left me with a huge shortfall that will result in my home being repossessed. The woman dealing with my case at Lloyds recoveries department phoned last week to say they wanted £1500/month towards the debt. She then suggested that I speak to my mortgage provider (which is Lloyds) to remortgage my home in order to pay the business debt. As I am in a DMP (which Lloyds are aware of) this is impossible. As this is a business debt (which Lloyds are obviously aware of) it is not possible to remortgage with Lloyds in order to pay that off. I knew all this but apparently Lloyds Recoveries Dept don't !! I today spoke to someone within Lloyds mortgages who couldn't believe I was told to do this - like I say, they never cease to amaze me.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Well Lloyds never cease to amaze me. As discussed above in this tread Lloyds repossessed my business premises, appointed an LPA Receiver and it was sold for considerably less than it was worth which then left me with a huge shortfall that will result in my home being repossessed. The woman dealing with my case at Lloyds recoveries department phoned last week to say they wanted £1500/month towards the debt. She then suggested that I speak to my mortgage provider (which is Lloyds) to remortgage my home in order to pay the business debt. As I am in a DMP (which Lloyds are aware of) this is impossible. As this is a business debt (which Lloyds are obviously aware of) it is not possible to remortgage with Lloyds in order to pay that off. I knew all this but apparently Lloyds Recoveries Dept don't !! I today spoke to someone within Lloyds mortgages who couldn't believe I was told to do this - like I say, they never cease to amaze me.

 

 

 

That is quite frankly idiotic, personally I would be making a formal complaint to Lloyds at director level .

[Frantic50]

I already have a couple of complaints on the go. Both were sent to Directors. I think you are right, I will send yet another formal complaint. I was speaking briefly to someone yesterday who thought it might be 'unlawful' for Lloyds to have suggested that I remortgage in order to repay their business loan. I can't see that it is but if anyone has any reason to think that it may be I'd be interested to hear.

[Frantic50]

Just wanted to ask if anyone knows if there is anything I can quote (Codes of Practice, Lending etc) when writing this letter of complaint to give it more weight. I have trawled the internet and have come across all sorts of stuff but I'm not too sure what is relevant if anything. Is there anything that says they shouldn't advice you to re-mortgage to pay a business loan, for example, irresponsible lending. If there's anyone out there who might know I would really appreciate it. Got nothing more to loose now.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Just wanted to ask if anyone knows if there is anything I can quote (Codes of Practice, Lending etc) when writing this letter of complaint to give it more weight. I have trawled the internet and have come across all sorts of stuff but I'm not too sure what is relevant if anything. Is there anything that says they shouldn't advice you to re-mortgage to pay a business loan, for example, irresponsible lending. If there's anyone out there who might know I would really appreciate it. Got nothing more to loose now.

HL Frantic,

I think you have all you need in post #54, put the "events" in chrono order what you feel is wrong there's your formal complaint base.

[Frantic50]

Well just received the response from the FO regarding my complaint against Lloyds and am appalled to say that I have no complaint. They don't consider I was misled by Lloyds into thinking I would be able to move my mortgage, they don't consider the derogatory comments with the documents I received as a result of the SAR to be anything other than what they would expect, and as far as them allowing the LPA receiver to sell the property at 50% below market value, well, tough is pretty much what they have said. Feel totally devasted by this news. They say I can challenge the decision, but what's the point I can't see anything changing. My MP has written to Lloyds on my behalf reiterating my complaint and highlighting the devasting effect this is all having on my family but I don't suppose Lloyds will give a toss now. Is there anywhere I can turn now?

[slick132]

Hi Frantic,

 

If you read enough threads here, you will see that complaints ruled on by the Adjudicators are quite informal and often favour the banks.

 

If you appeal a decision, it will be reconsidered and ruled on by an Ombudsman and they have better regard for law and regulation. I'm not saying an appeal will bring about a different result for you, but there's every chance that the ruling would be fairer.

 

Have you checked Land Registry recently to see if the new owner is listed yet.

 

[Frantic50]

Well the saga that is my life at the moment continues. My MP has now sent me a copy of the letter he has received from Lloyds. Basically it is just a rehash of the response I received from them following my first complaint. They say they have not acting unfairly etc etc. With regard to my complaint concerning, what I see as defamatory comments concerning my attitude towards the business and that of my partner, Lloyds just say that they need to get a clear picture of what has gone on and therefore exchanges are made between departments. No internal comments are for disclosure to third parties. So basically they don't see that they've done anything wrong there either.

 

 

I am determined that they are not going to just keep sweeping my complaints under the carpet but I'm doing this blind really. I have no idea what they can and can't say or do. Does anyone know if you can get any legal help from the CAB. I have been to see them concerning this issue before but that was more to do with the debt and not about their non compliance with codes of banking etc?

[Frantic50]

Another point I forgot to mention is that my MP also mentioned about the LPA selling the property off cheap and in Lloyds response to my MP they said that they will not comment on it, nothing to do with them. Also when I spoke to the FOS adjudicator for my case about that he said "that's what they do", so no joy there either. Seems these LPA's don't have anyone governing them and they have no one to answer to.

 

 

By the way Slick, yes I have checked the Land Registry and the the new owner is now listed. Don't know who it is, just that they live local to the business premises.

[slick132]

Hi Frantic,

 

It may be that there is nothing untoward about the new owner and their purchase. You would need to establish some sort of evidence that the transaction was not "at arm's length" or that there was something dishonest involved. But it may well be that there was no dishonesty involved.

 

Speak to the CAB to see if you can get some direct advice from a sol'r. Preferably, an interview in person.

 

Have you sought advice from Business Debtline ? While you need to exhaust all avenues about the unfairness involved, you also need to address the issue of dealing with the debt you've been left with.

[BazzaS]

OK thanks. The comments related to why they considered that my business failed. They stated that I "wasn't committed" and that my wife was "unsupportive". Both statements are absolute rubbish. No one could have put more into that business or made more sacrifices than me and my family and I am deeply offended by the implication that I had no commitment to it. The documentation they completed in order for the account to transfer to Recoveries needed to state a reason for the failure of the business. The tone of the note is very 'off the cuff' so to me it seems they just 'pulled that one out the bag'. Totally unfair and untrue.

 

Did your wife have to sign the mortgage for your (shared) home?

Did she receive independant advice as to the risks / implications?.

 

If she had to sign and had had advice : it is hard to see how that is "unsupportive" as she is putting her home at risk to support the firm.

 

If she had to sign but the bank failed to ensure she had had independant advice : can she not claim "undue influence" as a means of preventing the bank repossessing the family home?.

 

I am unsure if this would be as much use to you as a sole trader as if it was a personal guarantee for a limited company, but it might be worth considering ....

[Frantic50]

Hi Frantic,

 

It may be that there is nothing untoward about the new owner and their purchase. You would need to establish some sort of evidence that the transaction was not "at arm's length" or that there was something dishonest involved. But it may well be that there was no dishonesty involved.

 

Speak to the CAB to see if you can get some direct advice from a sol'r. Preferably, an interview in person.

 

 

Have you sought advice from Business Debtline ? While you need to exhaust all avenues about the unfairness involved, you also need to address the issue of dealing with the debt you've been left with.

Thank you Slick. I am in a DMP so trying to get to grips with the outstanding debts. I am off to the CAB next week to see what help I get there, however, I do not always have a great deal of faith in the advice on offer there. I was told by one of their advisers to get an IVA to pay off the Bank debt ! This is not possible as it was a secured debt which they knew. Thanks again.

[Frantic50]

Did your wife have to sign the mortgage for your (shared) home?

Did she receive independant advice as to the risks / implications?.

 

If she had to sign and had had advice : it is hard to see how that is "unsupportive" as she is putting her home at risk to support the firm.

 

If she had to sign but the bank failed to ensure she had had independant advice : can she not claim "undue influence" as a means of preventing the bank repossessing the family home?.

 

I am unsure if this would be as much use to you as a sole trader as if it was a personal guarantee for a limited company, but it might be worth considering ....

 

Thanks for this Bazza - clutching at straws now so this definately worth a shot, cheers.

[Frantic50]

Well got a response to the last of a series of letters of complaint to Lloyds and I am sick of them not answering the questions I ask. I have asked them again to stop charging interest at the rate of £6k a year as, naturally, this is not helping the situation and goes against 'The Lending Code' but all they say is that they are entitled to do so and will continue to unless the FOS tell them otherwise! I want to write back yet again and ask them to answer the questions I raised but I'm not sure it will achieve anything. What does anyone else think? Should I keep banging on about it or is it pointless? Already had a less than favourable response from FOS adjudicator and now going to be reviewed and all Lloyds say is that they will put any recovery of the debt on hold until they get a response from the FOS but I guess it's just delaying the repossession of the house. Off to see CAB again next week to see if I can get any advice there. All my letters have gone to the CEO at Lloyds but I don't suppose he's even seen them. I have managed to find a direct emails address for the CEO so I'm going to try that. My MP, as well as others I believe, is keen to get a change through parliament which will stop banks being able to use people homes as security for business loans. Whether that will ever happen I don't know, but not in time to help my situation. My children cry themselves to sleep at night scared that we will have to leave the only home they've known and they'll loose their friends. Breaks my heart.

[Frantic50]

I'm getting no where with my complaints against Lloyds. Following the FOS adjudicator response I have asked for my complaint to go to the Ombudsman but I can't see that going anywhere. Lloyds have an answer for everything and seem to offer justification for all their actions. Flogging a dead horse now. Life is pretty awful. Went to see CAB, again, and they were no help at all and just said that banks seldom make mistakes (ha ha, a beg to differ). The bank have put recovery of the debt on hold until the FOS case is closed. Then it will be down to repossession. We have no money at all to pay them, we can't afford any form of repayment about from £100/month which we have offered them. Seeing as they are looking for £1500/month that's obviously a non-starter.

My wife is a wreck, she just isn't coping with the fact that we are going to loose the house, I just don't know what to do. We can't sell the house as the council have told us they want help as we would be seen as having made ourselves homeless, we can't afford to rent privately (no deposit and poor credit rating anyway, not easy to get accepted by as a tenant). Council have told us to ring back when we get an eviction date and they will look into emergency housing but they have told me we they are unlikely to be able to house us together !!! I just don't know what to do for the best, my children are devastated about loosing their home and my wife is constantly in tears. It's just no life. I am not a greedy, money grabbing bloke. I took on the business in order to provide a decent income and future for my family and circumstance has completely ruined my families life. I just wish Lloyds would have an understanding of what they are doing to people by repossessing their homes. I know I allowed them to use my home for security but, perhaps naively, I had no reason to ever believe things would turn out like this.

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Have they threatened reposession yet ?

X

[Frantic50]

Hi there

No, they haven't threatened repossession as such. I had made some complaints which they did accept so I took them to the Ombudsman. Lloyds have said they will put it on hold until they have their response. I don't think anything with come of that though as I have already had a FOS response from an adjudicator and that wasn't favourable. They asked to see how much money we could raise (re-mortgage, family, friends etc) but we are unable to re-mortgage as we have a bad credit record and couldn't afford the repayments anyway. I'm pretty sure it's only a matter of time and I have to say I am terrified.

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Ok.....have you made an offer to clear the arrears . Never mind the complaint for the moment..like you say all action will be on hold untill they have made a decision.

 

You can make an offer of payment as long as it's cleared the arrears by the end of the mortgage. If it goes to court a judge would find that more than acceptable. If Lloyd's go for reposession it's not the end. You can go to court and defend yourself. I have been to a reposession hearing and saved my home 4 times now so I doubt you have anything to worry about.

Use the time the FOS have the case to come to an arrangement. That way if the FOS don't go in your favour you have everything in place and Lloyd's have an arrangement in place which will keep,them happy.

Honestly try not to worry....I really do believe you are a long way off from losing your home

 

Xx

[Frantic50]

Hi there

 

 

It's not that straight forward. They have asked for a monthly repayment figure which is as much as I bring home each month (payments + arrears) so that's not something I can do. This is the problem. Since the business folded I've not been able to make any payments. I'm working, but not in a well paid job. We literally have no money spare each month. We have already cut back to the bone and both looking for better jobs but I can't see anything happening anytime soon. My salary would have to double to be able to make the payments they want. When I went to the CAB they pretty much said that if we can't make any payments near to what they are looking for then repossession is pretty much definite. Which I absolutely understand but that doesn't make it any easier.

How have you managed to cope with this 4 times? How come it's been 4 times, is it because you have to keep appealing? Sorry, I've never been through anything like this before so it's nice to be able to ask.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi there

 

 

It's not that straight forward. They have asked for a monthly repayment figure which is as much as I bring home each month (payments + arrears) so that's not something I can do. This is the problem. Since the business folded I've not been able to make any payments. I'm working, but not in a well paid job. We literally have no money spare each month. We have already cut back to the bone and both looking for better jobs but I can't see anything happening anytime soon. My salary would have to double to be able to make the payments they want. When I went to the CAB they pretty much said that if we can't make any payments near to what they are looking for then repossession is pretty much definite. Which I absolutely understand but that doesn't make it any easier.

How have you managed to cope with this 4 times? How come it's been 4 times, is it because you have to keep appealing? Sorry, I've never been through anything like this before so it's nice to be able to ask.

 

 

 

Frantic, I think a judge would find that most unreasonable, and would not order you to pay more than you can reasonably afford.

 

 

Are you still making any payments?

[Frantic50]

Yes Brig. I am still making a token payment monthly, but very minimal.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes Brig. I am still making a token payment monthly, but very minimal.

 

 

Could any more be offered?