ANPR sent 'copy' of proposed claimform - Daughter - Help Needed **Won at POPLA**

[keeno65]

Hi all, I have just registered on this Forum and looking for some advice please.

 

My Daughter has just come to me with various letters from ANPR Ltd over an unpaid PCN.

 

A bit of background, her car is actually registered to her ex boyfriend and she hasn't change the logbook yet, so consequently correspondence has been going to him and he hasn't passed it on until now.

 

She was issued with a Parking Charge Notice at 15:17 on the 28/05/14 at the Cherry Tree Shopping Centre, Liscard, she had bought a ticket but she had not stuck it on window properly and it fell off, she still has the ticket and it shows a paid until time of 17:03 for £1.00 payment at 15:03.

 

Her ex boyfriend has just posted 2 letters through the door.

 

The 1st Dated 11/07/14 an Invoice for OUTSTANDING PARKING NOTICE with an amount payable of £100

 

The 2nd Dated 25/07/14 an Invoice for FINAL DEMAND with an amount of £140, with threats of handing over to local debt recovery agency etc etc

 

Could you please tell me what my options are to sort this out for my Daughter, obviously her ex is not too happy with letters saying "the situation has now become very serious" etc

I did tell her if she had told me earlier I may have been able to sort it out, so I don't know if now it is too late and she just has to pay the £140 ??

 

Thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

no!!

 

its a speculative invoice NOT a real parking ticket.

 

just read a few of the ANPR threads here already

 

you'll get the idea about what [not] to do.

 

dx

[Meekyou]

Has the ex-boyfriend made contact with the Parking Company? Has he named her as the driver of the vehicle at the time?

 

At present, they are chasing him as they would get his info from DVLA. Therefore (please guys correct me if I'm wrong) if he returns the NTK to the issuer and names your daughter as the driver, then the clock resets on the process and she gets chance to appeal to POPLA etc etc....??

Edited July 31, 2014 by Meekyou

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

As this was an ANPR ticket, it would have automatically gone to the ex. This should have happened within 14 days of the 'offence' if he did not get it within that time, tough luck ANPR.

 

As it is, if the ticket was within the timeframe, then your daughter is out of time to appeal to ANPR. She could try by saying that she had split and see if ANPR would accept an 'out of time' appeal although I seriously doubt they will. Even if they did allow the appeal, they would reject it anyway as it is not in their interest to do so.

 

As for 'debt recovery agents' Ooh-scary scary- NOT! They have absolutely no power over you and cannot make you do or say anything.

 

My thoughts are to wait and see if they issue court papers but I would get the log book changed ASAP.

 

I do think that she should inform ANPR that the ex is not the keeper so that he doesn't get any court papers.

[armadillo71]

Has the ex-boyfriend made contact with the Parking Company? Has he named her as the driver of the vehicle at the time?

 

At present, they are chasing him as they would get his info from DVLA. Therefore (please guys correct me if I'm wrong) if he returns the NTK to the issuer and names your daughter as the driver, then the clock resets on the process and she gets chance to appeal to POPLA etc etc....??

 

This is correct.

He ( or your daughter ) needs to contact ANPR Ltd , naming the driver and giving their address.

This will reset the clock and a Notice To Driver should be sent to your daughter.

She can then appeal to ANPR , then to POPLA, where the charge will get cancelled.

With every letter sent you should get proof of postage from the post office, and state you have to ANPR.

[ericsbrother]

Currently it is ex-boyfriend who will suffer if the matter isnt passed over, not your daughter, so it is for him to pull his finger out if he wants to be rid of them.

[keeno65]

Thanks Guys,

 

I will have a problem getting the ex to do anything to be honest, also he says he can't find the logbook.

So firstly, can the DVLA just be called and told the logbook is missing and there is a new owner, or will they only re-issue to current owner, and then change it?

 

Should I ring ANPR and tell them the situation or pretend I am the ex?

 

Then when new paperwork comes through to my daughter I can appeal to ANPR then POPLA

 

Is this the right course of action to take?

[IPC1963]

ANPR are claiming keeper liability and at the moment your daughters ex is registered keeper.

They don't even know who your daughter is.

 

 

Her ex could save himself some grief by naming your daughter as driver and passing all the drivel ANPR send onto her

but if he doesn't I shouldn't worry about it even if you change things with DVLA now at the time of the invoice he was still registered keeper.

 

 

I have dealt with ANPR personally and if you do a quick search on this site,

pepippo and MSE you will see ANPR really are nothing to worry about.

They are incapable of getting any of their procedures right and wouldn't dare try and do court.

 

 

They use fake debt recovery companies who are actually them by another name

and think their running costs are the losses they can claim by you parking.

 

 

As long as the Ex is receiving the letters addressed to him sit back and forget about it.

 

 

He has to provide the drivers name with serviceable address for them to persue your daughter

[armadillo71]

He has handed your daughter the NTK , so if you want him out of the equation, then she can respond to ANPR naming herself as the driver.

She should then receive a NTD and can then appeal herself and get the charge cancelled.

[Meekyou]

If ANPR are chasing the Ex, I would ignore it. It's for him to contact ANPR and name your daughter; until he does that they will continue to chase him - doesn't he realise this....? If he can't be bothered, then it's his problem. Next time he drops a letter at your house, just tell him he has to action it; either that or just put the letter back in the nearest Post Office box maked return to sender.

[keeno65]

To just put the onus on the ex is not fair, he did not park the car and he did not fail to display a ticket.

I can't expect him to receive letters that as far as he is concerned look quite frightening, irrespective of wether they have no legal foundation.

 

I am going to right a letter to ANPR on his behalf stating that " This car is owned by my ex-girlfriend, I never got round to changing the logbook to her name, I was not driving the car at the time of the incident, she was, I never have driven the car as I have never been insured, I do not know where she is now living, please stop sending letters to me"

 

Would this work?

[Meekyou]

I wouldn't say "never got round to changing the logbook"; would suggest - my ex-girlfriend has been in possession of the vehicle since xx date, and she has the V5 document, at that time I did ask her change the Keeper info which she confirmed she would do.

[armadillo71]

To just put the onus on the ex is not fair, he did not park the car and he did not fail to display a ticket.

I can't expect him to receive letters that as far as he is concerned look quite frightening, irrespective of wether they have no legal foundation.

 

I am going to right a letter to ANPR on his behalf stating that " This car is owned by my ex-girlfriend, I never got round to changing the logbook to her name, I was not driving the car at the time of the incident, she was, I never have driven the car as I have never been insured, I do not know where she is now living, please stop sending letters to me"

 

Would this work?

 

No. You have to give a serviceable address for the driver.

The clock will be reset and she should be sent a Notice To Driver that can be appealed and cancelled ultimately.

Forget about the log book and insurance with regard to ANPR.

 

Just give the name and address of the driver and state that the registered keeper has no liability for this charge.

[keeno65]

No. You have to give a serviceable address for the driver.

The clock will be reset and she should be sent a Notice To Driver that can be appealed and cancelled ultimately.

Forget about the log book and insurance with regard to ANPR.

 

Just give the name and address of the driver and state that the registered keeper has no liability for this charge.

 

Should I send letter or do it by phone ? or doesn't it matter either way

[Meekyou]

Letter, then you have a record of it - never phone these people. Send recorded delivery as well.

[armadillo71]

Should I send letter or do it by phone ? or doesn't it matter either way

 

Always by letter, keep a copy, and get free proof of postage from the post office. State that you have proof of postage to ANPR as well.

 

Never speak to them on the phone.

[IPC1963]

You really need to get it out of your head that trying to be at all reasonable with ANPR ltd will pay any dividends follow the following steps.

1. Never ever ring a PPC ANPR will not take calls anyway unless you want to pay.

2. Get Free proof of posting for any correspondence they are notorious for losing important mail.

3. Write to them as your daughter naming your daughter as driver, give a serviceable address don't bother discussing anything about who the registered keeper is. This will reset the clock.

4. When they reply appeal to them for any reason you want, this appeal doesn't matter they will reject the appeal anyway they never ever accept an appeal, in your appeal however state that, if they reject your appeal you want a POPLA code and no further correspondence with them will be entered into without a POPLA code.

5. They will reply with two pages of twoddle stating they have visited the car park, they feel sorry but it the ticket has been issued correctly blah blah blah.

6. Unfortunately you shouldn't have to but now you need to reply saying as you stated in your last letter no further correspondence will be entered into with them until they issue a POPLA code and you have reported them to the BPA for their breach of the BPA code of practice. (they should automatically send you a code when they reject but they never comply and continue to get away with it.

7. When they finally send you a code check the date it was issued the code includes this info they issue codes that are out of date or with little time left you only have 28 days from the date it is issued to appeal to POPLA.

8. When you appeal to POPLA forget any mitigating circumstances and make sure you get the appeal checked on the forum. GPEOL will always win with ANPR, but for belt and braces follow the newbies thread.

 

You are going to get half a forest of paperwork from these cretins but they honestly have no idea and as long as you get it out of your head that your daughter did anything wrong or that you owe them anything at all and follow the plan above you will get it cancelled.

[keeno65]

ok I will send letter saying I (the ex) as the registered keeper has no liability for this charge and here is the name and address of the driver at the time. This letter has been sent with proof of postage.

[keeno65]

ok I will write letter as Daughter (sorry posted before I saw IPC1963 post)

[keeno65]

Right, I sent a letter saying I (my Daughter) was the driver of the car, she has now received an Outstanding Parking Notice in her name and address (reset the clock)

On the back under appeals it says "More over, appeals are only dealt with in writing by using the Business Reply Card" there is no business reply card.

Do I just follow IPC1963 advice from point number 4 , if so what do I put as grounds for appeal, as I presume when I appeal to POPLA it will have to be for the same reason?

Is there a link to any templates for letters etc,

many thanks.

[Meekyou]

So you now appeal the PCN on the basis that your daughter paid for her allotted parking time

- state the times as per the machine ticket

- enclose a photocopy of the machine ticket (not the original).

 

 

State that therefore no monies are owed, no Charge is payable.

Send appeal in writing, mention that they have not included the Business Reply Card mentioned in their letter.

 

 

They can't refuse your appeal on the grounds that you didn't use the Business Reply Card.

Make sure you get proof of postage from Post Office, as they will most likely claim to have not received your appeal.

Whatever reason you use for the appeal, they will probably reject anyway so then,

in which case they have to give you the PoPLA reference number and you then appeal to them.

[armadillo71]

As above.

 

But make sure you state that no loss has occurred, that a POPLA code must be provided if appeal is rejected, and that the appeal has been sent with proof of postage. No other correspondence will be entered into.

[keeno65]

Is this letter ok?

 

I have received your outstanding parking notice Ref xxxxxx

A ticket had been bought for £1.00 at 15:03 hrs covering parking until 17:03 hrs , on the 28th May 2014 (copy enclosed), the PCN was issued at 15:17 hrs on the 28th May 2014.

Therefore no monies are owed and no charge is payable as no loss has occurred to the landowner.

I have not included the "Business Reply Card" which you mention in your Appeals section on the back of the notice, as there wasn’t one included in your letter.

If this charge is not cancelled then I expect you to issue a code for POPLA, without this no other correspondence will be entered into.

This letter has been sent recorded delivery.

Chelsea xxxxxxx

[armadillo71]

That will do. Although I wouldn't waste money on recorded delivery, which they may not sign for anyway.

Free proof of postage is all you require.

[keeno65]

ok great, I will get in in the post.

 

Thanks