Paypal, should I return item first??

[mikrt]

Hi Forum,

 

I brought a slate sample off ebay and decided I liked it. On that basis I ordered £363.00 worth of slates, not ebay, but paid with paypal. It is an established business, not private seller.

 

After signing for delivery (Noting "Uninspected" on receipt) and then uncovering the crate, I find that all the slates are completely different to the sample I was sent (All the ones in crate are the same as each other).

 

I do realise that there are obviously variations in natural slates, but they are completely different in colour and texture.

 

I have filed a paypal dispute, and the seller has not responded to it. He phoned me to tell me to send them back for a refund, but that's going to cost a lot - at least £75, and I don't think paypal will help with return costs.

 

On the phone he got a little stroppy, telling me he was going to make it difficult for me. So I believe he will wait until the very last minute to respond, then I'll have to return it for any chance a refund.

 

I am very very tempted to cancel the paypal dispute, and the use Money Claim OnLine & Sale of goods act 1979 to get my money back. The onus will then be on seller to uplift the items, does this sound right, or would MCOL take a dim view of me cancelling the paypal dispute?

 

The sale of good act 1979 states that I should not lose out when seller breaks the contract, which I believe he has, and that return postage costs are met by buyer only when changing their mind.

 

Thanks for reading, and for any advice,

 

Mike

[rebel11]

Hi Mike

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The Consumer Contracts Regultions 2013 (Distance Selling) apply:- https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/265898/consumer-contracts-information-cancellation-and-additional-payments-regulations-2013.pdf

 

You paid through Paypal, did the Paypal account have a zero balance before you used a credit/debit card to pay for the slates?

 

Did you use a credit or debit card?

 

You might be able to carry out a Chargeback or Section 75 claim.

 

Scroll down to Paypal:- http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/how-do-i-use-chargeback

 

The costs of returning the slates need to refunded by the seller,

he can try to be as clear as he likes.

[mikrt]

Thanks for replying rebel11,

 

Yes paypal was @ zero, and I used cc.

 

I have actually been in touch with cc already, and they will not carry out section 75 until I've proof that item has been returned (I did not mention chargeback). Have they got it wrong, or should chargeback have been used? What is the difference?

[rebel11]

Thanks for replying rebel11,

 

Yes paypal was @ zero, and I used cc. - that means you can carry out a Section 75.

I have actually been in touch with cc already, and they will not carry out section 75 until I've proof that item has been returned (I did not mention chargeback). - I think you need to return the slates, make sure you use tracking.

 

Have they got it wrong, or should chargeback have been used? What is the difference?

- The goods need to be over £100 to carry out a Section 75. Section 75 legally offers more protection on the goods you purchase.

 

Contact your card provider, ask to do Chargeback see what they say.

[mikrt]

Thanks again,

 

Just to be clear. I think I'm OK about getting my funds back, my real issue is about getting the cost of returning item of at least £75 back.

 

Paypal nor section 75 or chargeback will cover this I believe.

[rebel11]

Hi mikrt

 

I'm not sure why you spoke to him over the phone. All communication in writing.

 

'On the phone he got a little stroppy, telling me he was going to make it difficult for me. So I believe he will wait until the very last minute to respond, then I'll have to return it for any chance a refund.'

 

There is no doubt that if the 'goods are not as described', then the Trader has to bear the cost of collection.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013

 

35 (8) - 29 (1)

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is probably what the Seller is thinking:-

 

13.3 How much coverage do I get with PayPal Buyer Protection?

Items purchased on eBay:

 

If you see the PayPal Buyer Protection message "Pay with PayPal and full purchase price is covered", and if PayPal finds in your favor on your Claim, PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs – with no cap on coverage. PayPal will not reimburse you for the return shipping costs that you incur to return a Significantly Not as Described item to the seller or other party PayPal specifies. If the seller presents evidence that they delivered the goods to your address, PayPal may find in favor of the seller even if you did not receive the goods.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Contact your Card Provider:-

 

Ask to do a Chargeback, include the costs of returning the goods, quote

Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013. Comeback and tell us what they say.

[mikrt]

Thanks once again,

 

He called me, I have no intention of calling him.

 

As I now see it, I am going to have to pay the cost to return the item to get any money back from paypal or cc issuer.

 

My decision then is how do I go about getting the return cost back. I can see no other way than MCOL, but is it worth the hassle? BTW, I think my £75 mentioned earlier maybe a little too low, nearer £90.

[rebel11]

Paypal won't refund your return costs, Chargeback and Section 75 should. You need to be assertive with your card providers.

 

Thanks once again,

 

He called me, I have no intention of calling him.

 

As I now see it, I am going to have to pay the cost to return the item to get any money back from paypal or cc issuer.

 

My decision then is how do I go about getting the return cost back. I can see no other way than MCOL, but is it worth the hassle? BTW, I think my £75 mentioned earlier maybe a little too low, nearer £90.

[mikrt]

Ah, I didn't realise that. That's good to hear.

 

I'll do that and report back.

 

Thanks again, you've been a great help.

[mikrt]

Sorry, one more thing.

 

Would I be best to let paypal refund and then use section 75 just for the returning costs, or cancel the paypal dispute and use section 75 for the whole costs?

[rebel11]

To use Section 75 the value needs to be over £100, you need to get your card provider to confirm what they will refund, card providers don't like issuing section 75 refunds, you need to get in writing that they will refund everything.

 

Sorry, one more thing.

 

Would I be best to let paypal refund and then use section 75 just for the returning costs, or cancel the paypal dispute and use section 75 for the whole costs?

[mikrt]

Just gone onto palletline.co.uk , as I'm working today & tomorrow, a Saturday pick up is £104.00 so that just takes me over the threshold.

[ericsbrother]

Ok, the DSR's of the Sale of Goods Act is the relevant legislation. As the goods are not what you ordered then it is for the supplier to arrange collection. This has nothing to do with Paypal, they apply the same terms to evrywher they deal with and ignore the statute law of the country. The cc issuer is also wrong in demanding that you return the goods. Their argumant is that you should return them but they wont say that they are going to bear the cost of uplift as they again havent looked into what their obligations properly are.

It may be that you will end up in the small claims court over this and if you do go down that route you need to name the CC company as co-respondent. You dont have to actually spend 3100 on your cc, just that the goods are worth more than that so a deposit of 20 quid on a credit card for a holiday that you dont get renders the card company jointly liable for the entire cost.

[mikrt]

Thanks ericsbrother,

 

In light of advice (from rebel11 also) informing me that cc issuer is wrong in telling me to return item first, I will re-contact them with this knowledge.

 

By any chance, is there a link somebody could point me to, so I could perhaps quote it to them?

 

Many thanks.

[mikrt]

I will also be taking 1 of the slates off the pallet, and claiming this amount less, so as I can keep some sort of proof that the slates are indeed nothing like each other. There shouldn't be any problem with this, should there?

 

I'm concerned that when the slates have left me, I'll have no proof.