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Robinson Vs Natwest


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Hope someone can help,

 

Sent our preliminary letter to NatWest 24th Oct, We are claiming £2650.00 over 6 years (we already had all our statements). In this letter we also mentioned the recent staff attitude towards me on the phone being insensitive and rude (2 calls, 2 different members of staff).

we received a reply yesterday, (31st Oct) dated 28th Oct, this was the standard reply that everyone else seems to have had from S Higson,

 

he did add to this standard letter "The lack of sensitivity demonstrated by the staff with whom you have had dealings recently really is unacceptable, please accept my sincere apologies on behalf of the Bank."

 

He goes on to offer £1460.00 in full & final settlement "which takes into account the poor level of service you have received recently."

 

we have a couple of questions:

1) Do we accept this offer? (we didn't expect an offer as much as this, so soon).

2) Do we wait until the 14days are up before sending LBA, or can we send it now, in reply to his letter?

3) Can we claim extra "compensation" for the lack of sensitivity from staff, as he has stated in his letter that the offer is to take into account "the poor level of service" we have received?

 

We are tempted to take the offer because it is so much, but our total claim will pay off our £2,300 overdraft that we have with them

 

We are really worried about it getting to the court stage, doing something wrong or missing something out. We are not claiming the interest as we just cannot get our heads round it at all. Although we feel we have got to see it through to the end as we have had enough of Natwest, last month they took £200 and this month £172 in charges! Like we earn enough to just give it away to them!!???

 

Please someone give us a bit of advice as what to do..

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1) up to you

2) LBA 14 days after prelim

3) Yes and No because offer maybe inclusive of it.

 

Remember it is YOUR money and you will win.

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your lucky i never got so much as a penny offer from natwest, i am at the mcol stsge now where they have to put in a defense. Its up to you whether you take the offer, but if like me you have nothing to lose, go the whole 9 yards, why not you will it all in the end. :lol:

NW (NO 1) ACC

REC'D FULL SETTLEMENT 5/01/07 :)

 

NW (NO2) ACC

REC'D FULL SETTLEMENT 28/12/06 :lol:

 

NW (JOINT) ACC

MCOL STAGE AS WE SPEAK :-|

Court date 23rd May(bring it on!!!!)

Paid up 3 wks before court date - all done & dusted ( for now lol)

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  • 1 month later...

What a headache, still trying to get my head round this fully.

I politely declined their offer and have gone on to issue N1.( when I took the claim to court the receptionist said that all bank charges claims were being served together and that there were lots of them going through) My claim was deemed served 1st December, within a week have received letter from cobbets saying they intend to defend. The court papers say they have 28 days from date of service to enter a defence, is this right? Ive read other threads that say its 33 days from date of service, why's that? I'm getting so nervous now, I was hoping natwest would turn round and say "it's christmas lets just pay everyone" - no chance eh?

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The court papers say they have 28 days from date of service to enter a defence, is this right?

Yes, so they have till Dec 29th to file a defence

 

Ive read other threads that say its 33 days from date of service, why's that?

 

Because the deemed date of service is usually 5 days after filing, so it's 33 days after date of issue

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm really worried now, received cobbetts defence 28th December (1 day before deadline). I really don't understand it, it reads like the CPR Part 18 request that everyone is talking about but doesn't actually mention it:

 

DEFENCE

 

1. This Defence i sfiled and served without prejudice to the Defendant's case that the particulars of claim do not disclose reasonable grounds for brining a claim against the Claimants to recover the bank charges referred to in the Particulars of Claim or any other sum(s).. In the event that the Claimants do not properly particularise their claim then the Defendant will apply to strike out the claim and/or for summary judgement in respect of the same.

 

2. Without prejudice to the non-admission set out in the foregoing paragraph, if and to the extent that the claimants prove the allegation that the defendant debited charges to their bank accounts, insofar as such charges were debited on a date or dates more than six years prior to the issue of this claim, any remedy in respect of the same, whether damages, restitution or otherwise, is barred by the operation of the Limitation Act 1980 and/or the doctrine of laches and the defendant will apply to strike out this aspect of the claim and/or for summary judgement.

 

3. No admission are made as to what charges have been debited to the claimants bank accounts.

 

4. In relation to the allegation that the contractual provisions pursuant to which the charges have been applied are unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 ("UCTA 1977") and/or the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999 ("the regulations") and/or the common law, the claimants are required to identify:

4.1 a) the section(s) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977; b) the regulations of the unfair contract terms in consumer regulations 1999; and c) the principles of common law relied upon by the claimants in alleging that the contractual provision(s) referred to are unenforceable; and

4.2 the contractual provision(s) that the claimants allege are invalid by reference to UCTA 1977 and/or the Regulations.

Until such time as these sections/regulations/provisions are identified the defendant cannot (save as appears below) plead to the allegation referred to in paragraph 4 above. The defendant therefore reserves its right to plead further to the allegation once (and if) the claimants identify the relevant contractual information.

 

5. Save as hereinbefore appears the defendant joins issue with the claimants on their claim(s) and denies that it is liable to the claimants as alleged or at all.

 

I really cannot get my head around this at all.

1. The particulars of claim i put in were from the templates library (I did the N1, so it was the full particulars, not the MCOL), so, why are they saying that I have to properly particularise our claim.

 

2. i think this refers to the fact that, at the date of my 1st letter, the dates I was claiming for were within 6 years, but when I got to actually putting the claim in Court, it was just past 6 years. Do I have to take the first few dates off that I claiming for, or can I still claim for them?

 

3. I don't understand this paragraph at all, does this mean they don't know what charges I'm claiming i.e. they haven't got my schedule of charges?

 

4.1 Do I have to answer this? Isn't this what everyone is saying is the Part 18 request? or do I just answer it in full taking the reply from the Part 18 Sticky that Ive seen?

4.2 I don't understand what this means at all.

 

 

I haven't been given a time limit to reply at all, the covering letter just asks that I acknowledge receipt. Do I send an acknowledgement of receipt to Court aswell?

 

I hope someone can help me, or guide me as to where to find my answers so that I understand this jargon, it's really getting scary now.

 

Thank you & merry xmas to all.

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This is their standard defence. You do not have to respond to it, but as a courtesy send a 1 liner acknowledging receipt. Remember this is from Cobbetts, they have not sent it as a courtesy, but to scare and intimidate you into backing down and accepting their first offer (usually 50%) which will be along any day now.

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Sorry to be a pain, I'm so worried.

See, it's having the desired effect!!! lol.

 

Of course they can apply to have it struck out, but before that happened the judge would issue directions stating what further information the court required. Only if you failed to do so within the timescale would the case be struck out.

 

It's just sabre rattling before they capitulate.

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Again ignore it. The place to answer their defence is in court.

 

However if it'll make you feel better:

 

I acknowledge receipt of your clients defence dated XX December 2006.

 

I first contacted your client regarding their unlawful charges on XX /XX/2006 and therefore disagree with your contention that any of these charges fall outside the scope of the Limitations Act 1980. However I am happy to let the court decide on this matter.

 

Your client should consider themselves fortunate I have not claimed charges going further back, since I believe that any limitation would be overturned under the terms of section 32 of the Limitation Act, due to their continued "concealment" of the fact that their charges are unlawful, or for relief from a "mistake.

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Just been reading elsewhere again, does this mean I'm likely to end up with a CPR Part 18 request anyway? Then I can send them the standard reply in the "sticky". Is it only if the Court asks me to answer questions that I have to answer them?

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Just been reading elsewhere again, does this mean I'm likely to end up with a CPR Part 18 request anyway?

Probably not, they usually send Part 18 request with their defence or not at all

Then I can send them the standard reply in the "sticky".

Yes.

Is it only if the Court asks me to answer questions that I have to answer them?

Yes, you must comply with any direction from the court

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  • 2 weeks later...

Before I had chance to acknowledge receipt of Cobbetts defence, I had an offer from them! I am insulted though as it is slightly less than Natwest offered originally, it also had the usual conditions not to disclose to any third party etc.

 

I also received the AQ from Court, I have until 22 Jan to return that, so hanging on to it a bit, just incase we get a result beforehand (wishful thinking!) Plus the fact that stupid Natwest took the whole of my Hubbys wages as soon as they were paid in on charges last week, I was furious! They have left us with not a penny to live on! How can that be legal????

 

I have today sent my sod off reply to them, using the templates you have given me (Michael, thank you) and bits taken from other threads, which relate to my claim.

I'm not sure if I've done right, but I also mentioned that their offer was less than Natwest offer and included a copy of that letter, as Natwest say that it also takes into consideration the way we were treated by Natwest Staff. Do you think it might get us a bit extra?

 

I am also starting to prepare my 2nd claim with Natwest, I WILL claim back all the charges imposed during the time of this original claim, it's just ridiculous that they can take the whole of your salary and leave you with no money to live off.

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Help!!!

I received a letter today from Natwest, basically they've frozen my accounts! They have asked for cheque books and servicecards back.

 

I'm sure I've seen letters on here somewhere that I can reply to them saying that they can't do this because the account is in dispute but now can't find them, can someone point me in the right direction?

 

i've just found out that they haven't paid any direct debits since the beginning of the month, my husbands weekly wages are just being swallowed up in their charges, yet it would actually be cheaper for us if they paid the direct debits!! how can they justify not paying a direct debit for £2.92 yet charge £38.00 for not paying it??????

 

STUPID STUPID STUPID BANK HAVE THEY NO COMMON SENSE???????

 

I have managed to change account details for my wages but not my husbands wages which are going in tomorrow, so that will be another weeks wages worked for nothing.

 

Pleeeaaassseee someone help me with this letter I'm so cross and upset, I can't believe they can just freeze your account when it's your heard earned money going in and you can't use it for anything!!!

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I have found a template letter which is sort of what I want but it states about default notice being applied, that's not what Natwest have threatened with us yet, what they have put is:

 

"It is important to note that if the position is not resolved within the next seven days formal regulatory notices will be issued in accordance with the provisionsof the Consumer Credit Act."

 

I am assuming that it is after the 7 days they will then threaten a default notice, they ask in the letter for me to telephone them, but obviously I don't want to do that with the current situation as it isas it is, I would rather send them a letter telling them to go stuff themselves rather than over the phone.

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ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX

 

Dear Sirs

 

Re: Account in dispute

 

I am writing to clarify that I am currently in the process of requesting a refund of bank charges unlawfully made to my account.

 

I note from your latest correspondence that you are proposing to issue me with a Default Notice on this account - I need to make you fully aware that I am disputing the sum owed and, as such, you must refrain from any further action until this dispute is fully resolved.

 

If you do not stop this default action and proceed by making any adverse comments on my credit reference files, I shall be forced to take legal action against you under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Yours sincerely,

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This is the letter that I found earlier, I didn't think I would be able to use this one as they haven't threatened me with a default yet. or do I just ignore the letter I have received today and wait for them to threaten with the default notice then send this reply to them. Also in this reply letter I'm not sure what the 2nd paragraph means by " I am disputing the sum owed".

 

so sorry to be a pain again but I just want t o get things right before sending anything off to them.

 

thanks again for your help.

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Ok they've sent you a letter threatening to issue a default notice, don't wait for that to happen, get in first. Be proactive, not reactive.

 

I'm not sure what the 2nd paragraph means by " I am disputing the sum owed".

 

I thought they're chasing you for money which is made up of penalty charge which you believe are unlawful?

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Thanks Michael,

The thing is, in all the letters they have sent, they have never actually asked for the overdrafts to be paid back, not once has payment of money been mentioned, thats why I didn't understand what they were actually trying to threaten or why, because they haven't asked for any money, all that is stated "the accounts need to be resolved".

 

Anyway, I sent a letter to collections dept saying the accounts were in dispute blah blah.... I added to this letter that part of the reason for going over my overdraft limit recently was due to their staff not giving me correct transaction information on my account, therefore I had withdrawn money thinking there was enough in to cover dd etc, when in fact there wasn't! I copied this letter to Mr Higley, asking that he made sure all depts knew of the dispute and that we were not contacted again by telephone.

 

Mr Higley phoned us saturday afternoon offering us almost £900 to bring the accounts into credit! whats that all about?? My hubby told him that the accounts were in dispute & we were dealing with their solicitors , Mr Higley then said he could no longer help us then.

 

What I want to know is...

can we accept an offer from him, regarding the most recent charges that have been due to staff error. These charges are not included in the claim that we are making as the claim includes charges up to October, so any charges incurred since then are a separate issue, so surely we can accept his offer as long as its on the separate issue from the claim?

 

The letter has now arrived threatening to issue the default plus they are still asking for cards/cheque books back.

Do we have to comply with the request, as the accounts are still in dispute?

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  • 4 weeks later...

OH MY GOD WE WON!!!!!!!

 

CHEQUE RECEIVED TODAY FOR FULL AMOUNT £2870.00 (INC COURT FEES).

 

The cheque states pay: lnmrobinson into acc XXXXXXXX,

but I have paid it into our parachute ac with A & L, so hopefully it will clear ok.

 

Right, on with our second claim against NatWest for the charges we have had while the original claim was on-going.

 

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE ON THIS SITE, MICHAEL BROWNE ESPECIALLY, FOR HELPING US ON THIS THREAD. ALSO TO ALL OTHER THREADS, ALL INFORMATION GIVEN HAS BEEN SO HELPFUL AND THE MOTIVATION IS THERE WHEN NEEDED (WHICH HAS BEEN A LOT!).

 

Donation will be made to this site as soon as cheque clears

 

GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE ELSE.

LNMROBINSON

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