Same size tyres but different in actual size help

[Dibberly]

Hi All..been directed to this site to try and solve my problem.

 

I replaced 4 tyres on my car and bought the exact same size that have been currently on it for the past 3 years (only difference was the brand).

 

I ordered the tyres from ASDA tyres and got them fitted at one of their approved garages called kingsway tyres

 

Once the new ones were fitted and i paid for them, as i was traveling down the road i noticed a noise.. I found out that the new ones were rubbing the arch so took back straight away (max 1/4 mile in total).

 

Kingsway said "not my problem", and to contacted ASDA

 

Asda said "There what you ordered" - its your car at fault

 

Told them about the sales of goods act etc but i think they just laugh at me now when they dont ignore my emails

 

Finally found out that a 265 tyre can be up to 282 in width....nearly an increase by 2 tyre sizes and still within spec!!!!!

 

I now have £400 worth of rubber in the garage and stuck with them and cant get a refund

 

Over 3 weeks ive been arguing and getting the same response and still out of pocket

 

Am i stuck with these tyres for is there something i can do??

 

Thanks All

[Bluiiize]

Not 100% following what you mean about the spec of the tyres, i take it you ordered the identical size to that which was already been on your car for 4 years? No tyre should be that different i would be inclined to approach it from the "not fit for purpose" law.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Conniff
Remove uneccassry advice.

[Dibberly]

Hi

 

Apologies

 

The old tyres were Falken FK452 - 265/30/19, and the new ones were Goodyear Asymmetric 2 - 265/30/19 but physically the new tyres are nearly 20mm wider which is why they are rubbing

 

Contacted CAB 2 weeks ago and the lady phoned me up and she could not decide what company was at fault as the tyres were supplied by one company, and fitted (and paid for) by another.

 

She said that a judge would have to decide who my fight would be with.

 

Tried the "not fit for purpose" but apparently they are within spec of the ETRTO

 

The European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation says that the maximum in service overall width of a 265/30R19 is 282 mm and has a design section width of 271 mm

 

Which still does not help when my i ordered an 265!! I accept everything has a tolerance but nearly a 20mm tolerance is a very generous tolerance.

 

I have attached 2 pictures for you to look at. Both tyres are advertised at the same size but you can see clearly that they are very different in width

[BankFodder]

The fitters are very definitely not at fault.

 

I need to ask you first whether this is the standard tire size for your vehicle or whether you have treated yourself to slightly over wide tyres for it anyway.

 

I also am extremely surprised that a 20 mil difference comes within the specified tolerance. But if that's what the standard says then you can't go against it. It then comes down to a question of fitness for purpose. The act requires that the purpose is to be specified. You might be to say that it has been specified because you had the tyres fitted by Asda's own approved fitter. However it is going to be tricky.

 

I'm not too sure why you are saying that all of the tyres have to sit in your garage. Surely it is only one of them which is running.

 

I expect that the running is on one of the rear tyres – and I correct? There is often a small difference in the clearance of each rear wheel to its wheel arch. It isn't often very obvious but it can happen. It could be that a combination of an excessively wide tire and a slightly narrower wheel arch has led to the problem.

 

Have you measured all the tyres? Are they all 20 mil wider then you would have expected?

[Dibberly]

Hi

 

I damaged my original alloys wheels on a pot hole 3 years ago, it was cheaper to buy a complete wheel / alloy package than to buy 2 genuine BMW alloys and tyres.

 

The original wheels were 18" but decided to upgrade to 19" wheels.

 

The company supplied the new wheels took all measurements and ensured the new wheels / tyres fitted

(obviously if going to a larger wheel dimension in alloy,

the sidewall in the tyre has to be less to the actual overall tyre is as close to original as possible)

which they did.

 

The original rear size was 255/35/18 but the newer size for the new wheels were advised at 265/30/19.

I have had no problems for 3 years on the 265/30/19 falkens (2 sets of tyres).

The only problem is when i decided to get a "premium" goodyear tyre at 265.

 

I removed all tyres from Kingsway which is why i know about the size and took the pictures.

 

Both goodyear rear tyres were rubbing and are sitting in my garage off the car alloys

as i had to buy something else to get my car working.

 

The CAB advisor did say that if kingsway supplied AND fitted the tyres,

then with them rubbing they had made a safe car into an unsafe car which contravenes some road traffic act,

but as they never supplied them (only fitted) that she was not sure if this was still the case.

She also said it would be a tricky case to win

 

The goodyears still have all the identifying marks on them like a new tyre (coloured rings etc)

 

To avoid confusion -

i removed Falken 452 tyres that have been on for 3 years (265/30/19)

and replaced them with Goodyear Aysmmet 2 (265/30/19).

Falkens fitted with no problems at all but the goodyears were to wide and caused rubbing

 

Hope this helps

[rebel11]

Hi Dibberly

 

Did you order them from the ASDA website?

 

Have ASDA stated the following on their website?

 

'Finally found out that a 265 tyre can be up to 282 in width....nearly an increase by 2 tyre sizes and still within spec!!!!!'

 

I can't see how the fitter is at fault.

[Dibberly]

Hi Dibberly

 

Did you order them from the ASDA website?

 

Have ASDA stated the following on their website?

 

'Finally found out that a 265 tyre can be up to 282 in width....nearly an increase by 2 tyre sizes and still within spec!!!!!'

 

I can't see how the fitter is at fault.

 

Hi

 

Yes, ordered on the ASDA website and they were delivered to (and paid for at) the fitters. I cant see on any tyre companies website (ASDA, Blackcircles etc) about how they could be oversized.

 

I could not even find it on the goodyears website...its only when i emailed their technical help that i found out that info

[BankFodder]

I'm afraid that you are probably on a hiding to nothing here. You have changed the specifications of the car. On the original spec then the 20 mil extra the tyre would probably have fitted it. If the tyres had been supplied and fitted by the same company then you might have had a good complaint as they would have seen that the wheels were non-standard.

 

I think that the only thing I can suggest is to sell the tyres on eBay and to get others which you know will fit.

[Dibberly]

OK

 

Still stings as the old ones fitted which were the same size. £400 wasted for something that's made to big (even though within spec)

 

Its like buying a cooker to replace an old one, both advertised at 600mm wide, but the new one is actually 620mm wide and wont fit - but it is still within spec and the company saying tough!!

 

Thanks anyway

[BankFodder]

One final thought, – have you investigated fitting spacers?

[Dibberly]

Hi

 

yes but dont want to go down that route. I could probably get the arches rolled to create space but again i dont want to change what i dont need to

 

They size worked before so should work again!

 

Thanks

[i hate bailiffs]

 

The original wheels were 18" but decided to upgrade to 19" wheels.

 

That must be the start of the problem if they were meant to have bigger wheels on it would of been made that way

[rebel11]

Hi Dibberly

 

Write a Formal Letter of Complaint mark it as such. Explain what's happened (purchased tyres), how they have let you down (not enough product info about the tyres on their website) and what you want them to do.

 

Send it to:-

 

Mr Andy Clarke

Chief Executive

Asda UK

[email protected]

 

You have nothing to lose, how did you pay?

[Dibberly]

That must be the start of the problem if they were meant to have bigger wheels on it would of been made that way

 

But the extra size in alloy is taken off in tyres

 

The 18" wheel had a overall tyre diameter of 636mm

 

The 19" wheel had a overall tyre diameter of 642mm

 

Which is an increase of .94%

 

It is recommended to keep within +/- 2.5% of the original size

 

So i am well within tolerance at less than 1% so it should not cause any problem

 

The problem is that the tyre should be 265mm in width but its closer to 282mm

[heliosuk]

This sounds like a classic case where a car has been lowered by a muppet who doesn't realise the implications of what they are doing.

 

The aspect ratio tolerance is not far off from memory as it takes into account variations in the side wall stiffness.

 

Where a car has been lowered/had it's standard ride height altered, this often occurs.

 

You'll probably find the Falken tyre is stiffer than the Goodyear hence when the car is on wheels it cleared the arches.

[Dibberly]

This sounds like a classic case where a car has been lowered by a muppet who doesn't realise the implications of what they are doing. The aspect ratio tolerance is not far off from memory as it takes into account variations in the side wall stiffness. Where a car has been lowered/had it's standard ride height altered, this often occurs.

 

You'll probably find the Falken tyre is stiffer than the Goodyear hence when the car is on wheels it cleared the arches.

 

lol....regardless if the car has been lowered or not - the tyre is wider by nearly 20mm. If the GY tyre was 265 like the falken, then i would have had no problem

 

If i ordered 285 expecting them to fit in the same space as a 265, then obviously implications would arise and rubbing would cause. But i ordered the EXACT same size tyre that has been on the car for over 3 years

 

The suspension only adjusts the HEIGHT if the car, it does not adjust the width an anyway. A falken 265 fitted PERFECTLY

 

Look at the pictures...you can not tell me they are the same size

[heliosuk]

You're missing the point and it might just be you are a bit premature in Laughing Out Loud.

 

By lowering the car, in most cases the envelope (area of operation to the layman) the wheel and tyre assembly operate in is considerably reduced.

 

When the car is designed, the tyre tolerances are taken into account so any tyre with the same aspect ratio should fit for the designed ride height.

 

If a car is lowered it also affects the camber angles and the overall whole geometry set up which is not easy to recalculate.

 

You further complicate the issue by having non BMW approved wheels. Are the off sets the same?

 

So....has the suspension been modified or not and if so how and by how much?

 

If you want to progress this then it's important that you state this and answer the off set question.

[oddjobbob]

as I hate bailiffs has said

 

 

'That must be the start of the problem if they were meant to have bigger wheels on it would of been made that way'

 

 

BMW spend millions of pounds setting up the suspension and tyre sizes for their cars so that everything works properly, AND that if the correct tyres are fitted they will still be perfectly ok even if on the upper limits of EU tolerances.

 

 

Then in order to make the car 'look' better (they usually don't...) someone puts bigger wheels on the thing with lower profile tyres.

 

 

It's just asking for trouble IMO.

 

 

Can't see where you can go with this.

[Bandit127]

For me, this boils down to your order.

 

If you ordered tyres to fit a BMW XXX model of YYYY year and were given a list of tyres that inlcuded the ones your ordered then you have a case (assuming your wheels are a like for like replacement).

 

If you ordered 265/30/19 tyres without reference to your vehicle then you have no case. They said they are within spec for that size and you got what you ordered.

[zumbanikki]

iam with the op on this one you bought 265 tyres you would expect them to be 265 not bigger, it dosnt matter if the cars been modified as 265 fitted before without any issues,so the op thought he was replacing like for like.

they only don't fit as they are larger but still in spec

don't know what the anser ,is but don't the tyre fitters have a duty of care when fitting? if the op hadn't noticed the fault and gone on and had a accident it could have been a big

issue.

[heliosuk]

Yes indeed it would be a big issue for the OP if there had been an accident, especially if the insurers hadn't been notified of any modification.

 

These are the sort of issues that arise when people "play" with cars by modifying them and don't understand the implications of what they are doing. Most manufacturers dictate a minimum clearance of around 5mm for rotating to fixed parts in that area under all conditions and that takes into account all European and NAS tolerance regs for all parts.

 

To get a true perspective with this problem the OP needs to declare if the wheel offsets are the same as the original BMW wheels fitted and if the suspension has been modified or not.

 

Only then would posters be able to offer objective advice as to where the OP stands.

[heliosuk]

This one seems to have gone quiet doesn't it?

 

So has the car been modified or not and are the aftermarket wheels running the same off sets?

[heliosuk]

Think this should be closed now as OP cannot be bothered to respond.