HA Agent shut gas off/couldnt carry out service? not due yet *UPHELD* but happening again!

[Good Sister]

Hi Good Sister

 

Just thought Id pop in to see how your issue is going?

 

Hi stu007,

 

Thank you for checking in.

 

The current state of play is the complaint was received by them on 30th July (according to Royal Mail). Their Stage 1 complaints procedure states that they aim to give a resolution within 10 working days. By my reckoning that is next Wednesday.

 

That said, they did attempt to ring yesterday while I was in a meeting at work and I did not get the chance to ring them back before they closed for the day. They did not leave a message so will be finding out what they are ringing for hopefully today if I get a chance. Can't imagine any other reason why they are ringing me.

 

If they have something to provide (or not provide), their answer should be in writing as far as I am concerned and that is what I will be telling them.

 

I trust that is the right sort of response for now?

 

Many thanks.

[stu007]

Hi Good Sister

 

Thanks for the update and what you are doing is correct if they contact you could also ask for a face to face meeting with senior managers with the outcome of that being in writing to yourself something to consider.

 

Let us know what they say when they do respond.

[Good Sister]

Hello, I am back and I have some good news.

 

I am in receipt of the Stage 1 response from my housing association. My complaint has been upheld.

 

Despite them claiming that they could cap off my gas due to "the law",

it turns out there is no legal requirement at this time for the gas supply to be switched off

due to a non-access gas check appointment.

 

The person who dealt with my complaint had also confirmed with their internal buildings service team

that my gas supply should not have been capped off.

 

They have advised the contractors not to cap off gas supply unless in the event of an emergency.

 

They were able to produce three letters though but only details of two calling cards

- they could not verify what happened on the first occasion as the engineer who came out then no longer works for them.

 

The second calling card was left outside the building during the week I was on holiday (so could have been picked up by anyone).

 

I have learnt they tried to get in touch on a mobile number I have never had

I will be addressing that issue with them in the next few days.

 

Not sure how that's come about as they have normally contacted me on my actual number

but at least I know why I never got any phone calls about the matter.

 

Slightly disappointed they didn't cover everything,

such as the refusal to see the policy

and what would have happened if I was considered vulnerable,

 

but overall nothing really worth taking further.

 

Just happy that my complaint has been upheld and knowing that it will not happen again.

 

Thank you to everyone who offered help - I know I would not have thought of everything without coming on here first.

[stu007]

Hi Good Sister

 

Some good news at last and well done to you for staying the course with your complaint which was valid and the proof is they Upheld your complaint.

 

The other bonus you may not be aware of is your complaint now needs to be fully recorded by the HA and is open to scrutiny when they have and inspection by the regulator.

 

Would you like me to amend your thread title and add ***UPHELD*** ?

 

Well Done

[Good Sister]

Hi Stu007

 

Yes, please edit the thread title to include *UPHELD*.

 

I should probably clear up that I did not interpret the "no legal requirement" to mean it was illegal for them to turn the gas off, but simply that there is no current law to say they 'must' turn off the gas after x number of failed appointments, which is what they were initially trying to tell me.

 

Good to know it has to be fully documented though for the future.

 

Thank you for your support.

 

Good Sister.

[stu007]

Thread Title amended.

 

Your more than welcome for the support you received and I am sure our caggers will appreciate that.

 

Also remember you may be able to help others here through your own experience.

 

If you have any other issues anytime you know where we are just pop in and ask away.

[Good Sister]

Firstly, I should say I feel silly for bumping up my year-old thread, especially as it has 'upheld' in the title, but sadly it seems that lessons from last year have not been learnt. Therefore, it seems best to stick this in the same thread.

 

This week, I was threatened by my housing association that they would arrange for the gas to be capped if an engineer could not gain access this morning (Saturday 4th July). The situation is worse than last time, as I have been sat indoors for the previous two scheduled appointments and they did not show. We are dealing with the same contractor as last year.

 

I should probably point out now that my gas has not been capped as the check was done this morning. But I am not happy with the way this has been dealt with.

 

One was scheduled for the morning of 15th June, but I could only secure a half-day off work and they did not show during the agreed time period. I rearranged for Saturday 27th June morning, again they did not show during the time period. I rearranged yet again, this time for Saturday 4th July, stressing that I had a pre-arranged dentist appointment at 11am, so they had to have done the gas check before then. This was agreed.

 

I informed my housing association by email that the contractor had failed to show up to two appointments and they said if the gas check was not done on the Saturday, the engineer would arrange to cap my gas as it was outside of the 12 month mark. I pointed out that it was not quite 12 months as the previous certificate is dated 24th July 2014. On the second reply, they backtracked and said it was in line with the contractors policy to cap off gas after three failed appointments and that it was a legal requirement for them to cap gas if it's going to be more than 12 months since the last check.

 

So basically neither the housing association nor the contractor are acting on the agreements made in the complaint! It also falls short of their customer care standard "to deliver on (their) promises."

 

The engineer came this morning, though he came at 10.45am, so I had to cancel my dentist appointment.

 

I have wasted nearly 11 hours of my life just waiting for an engineer. The news that they were planning on capping the gas has caused distress and worry.

 

Part of me wants to raise another complaint but what would be the point if they are just going to uphold it again and not actually act on it? Maybe I should be grateful that my gas has not been capped but I can't see how they should get away with not making the changes that were agreed?

 

I would be interested to know your thoughts.

[dx100uk]

you wouldn't believe it if it was happening to you ..would you.

 

 

very bad behaviour.

not the way to treat any tenant

dx

[stu007]

HI

 

I would not let this go and make a Formal Complaint to the Housing Association and copy it to your MP again referring to your previous complaint that was upheld and due to the nature of this complaint wish it treated only as a STAGE 2 Complaint as nothing has improved or changed from your previous complaint and the maladministration of the Gas Servicing is still continuing with the Housing Association threatening Service Users due to the maladministration of both their contractor and the Housing Association.

 

You now formally request a copy of the Housing Associations Gas Policy and if the Housing Association refuses this request a complete explanation as to why it is refusing this request bearing in mind that this also reflect on how the housing association is been Open, Transparent and Accountable to its Service Users as the HA is using this.

 

Note:

 

1. The Contractor is employed by the Housing Association so their failure to turn up at the allocated times etc the buck stops with the HA.

 

2. The Contractors Policy is 3 failed attempts the cap gas. This is the HA passing the buck to clarify the Contractors Policy would have had to have been approved by the HA when that Contractor got the HA contract therefore this is actually the HA policy.

 

3. Due to your previous complaint and now the same thing happening again is Maladministration by the Housing Association not the contractor although they are at fault the buck stops directly with the HA.

[Good Sister]

Interesting - I had not considered involving the MP. It is something I would be willing to do.

 

I will look into getting that gas policy when the offices open on Monday. I will in the meantime start drafting up a letter or two...

[stu007]

DO you have any tenant/resident group? if so let them know the HA are refusing to give you that policy but are using it against service users but not being open and accountable to those service users.

[Good Sister]

DO you have any tenant/resident group? if so let them know the HA are refusing to give you that policy but are using it against service users but not being open and accountable to those service users.

 

We used to. It then become a "resident governance" where people could get involved at local and national level. They do invite all tenants to conferences, but the HA deals with a large geographical area and these things are normally held a bit too far out of my way. Otherwise I'd consider getting involved.

 

We did have one bloke who acted as our tenant rep but he gave this up some time ago and I don't know if there's anyone else who gets involved. Most people here are either full-time workers or are older people who can't get around so much.

[Surfer01]

We had a similar experience with my father's gas supply.

 

 

They could not get access as he was in hospital and resorted to threatening letters.

 

 

Although we live 10 miles away we agreed to wait for the gas engineer who was late.

 

 

We were about to leave whden he arrived.

 

 

The so called engineer was in the flat for about 2 minutes and all he did was switch it off and switch it on again.

 

 

He never even took the cowling off the unit whcih is a Worcester Bosch Combi.

 

 

I think he worked for a company called "Jones" or something.

 

 

Disgusting.

 

 

Thank goodness we do not have gas at our home.

[Good Sister]

Well, I got in touch with them this afternoon to find out about whether I could have a copy of the annual gas safety check policy.

 

Apparently they do not have one. Well, not a proper detailed one anyway. They have a two-page document available on their website, but this is more of a reminder that it's a legal requirement, what to expect and how to rearrange appointments. It's hardly a policy! It doesn't mention anything about missed appointments, cutting off gas etc - the lady I spoke admitted as much they didn't have anything like that and that they effectively use the contractors' terms!

 

Surfer01's reference to "Jones" above actually reminded me that the HA use more than one contractor (being a large area that they cover). I asked her whether this meant that tenants were getting different levels of service as they were using contractors' policies. She said we should all get the same service - I find that difficult to believe.

 

I'm going to send the complaint out tomorrow recorded delivery. It's pretty much typed up, I'll just need to add the bits in that I learnt today. I go on holiday next week so I don't want it hanging around.

 

I will go through with stu007's idea of involving the MP (worse thing that will happen is getting a "no") but just one question that seems silly - what am I actually asking my MP to do about it?

[ericsbrother]

bill them for your lost time at the hourly rate you normally earn and warn them that you will take legal action to recover the lost earnings as a breach of contract. Send the bill to the trustees not the HA management. The trustees are legally responsible so the management wont want it recorded in the annual report that they behave in the way that they do and have caused their bosses to be sued. I found when doing this some years ago that lba's to the home address of the chairman of the HA and also to their patron does wonders- they want to keep it quiet rather than actually showing any concernm for your plight.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Well your Housing Association is talking rubbish they dont have a Gas Policy so how are they threatening service users with the Gas being Capped then as it aint the contractors policy but the Housings. (remember the contractor works for the Housing Association so the buck stop directly at the HA)

 

Make it Official put it in writing and ask for a copy of their Gas Maintenance/Servicing/Safety Policy and Procedure.

 

Stop phoning put everything in writing keep a good paper trail and you want then to respond in writing only.

[Good Sister]

Hi

 

Well your Housing Association is talking rubbish they dont have a Gas Policy so how are they threatening service users with the Gas being Capped then as it aint the contractors policy but the Housings. (remember the contractor works for the Housing Association so the buck stop directly at the HA)

 

Make it Official put it in writing and ask for a copy of their Gas Maintenance/Servicing/Safety Policy and Procedure.

 

Stop phoning put everything in writing keep a good paper trail and you want then to respond in writing only.

 

OK, I've updated the complaint I plan to post tomorrow to request copies of all documentation. If I had some more time on my side, I would have asked to see what they have anyway and then wait 'til that came before wording my complaint. But I don't want to be waiting two weeks and then find myself having to chase.

 

But they haven't gained anything by admitting they don't have a clear policy - it just makes them look stupid whatever the truth.

[Good Sister]

bill them for your lost time at the hourly rate you normally earn and warn them that you will take legal action to recover the lost earnings as a breach of contract. Send the bill to the trustees not the HA management. The trustees are legally responsible so the management wont want it recorded in the annual report that they behave in the way that they do and have caused their bosses to be sued. I found when doing this some years ago that lba's to the home address of the chairman of the HA and also to their patron does wonders- they want to keep it quiet rather than actually showing any concernm for your plight.

 

Must admit that billing them was something I considered, but my feelings are that no amount of money will make up for the lost time where I could have been doing something more productive like working/doing the weekly food shop/buying stuff for my holiday. Time is more precious to me than money.

 

If they offer compensation, I'll take it. But I'm not going to the hassle of a legal battle if I can avoid. It's been less than a week since I withdraw a claim against my former utility company after they let me have things my way. As much as that made me realise I have a backbone, and whilst I will give this everything I've got, I'm not ready to face another potential court proceeding just yet.

 

Your info about dealing with the trustees is useful though, will bear it in mind.

[stu007]

Remember to add the person name if you know who told you they dont have a clear policy.

 

Also remember to add anything the aint done in their Customer Care Standards as well which this is part of as well

 

Better still name the HA here

[Good Sister]

The person I spoke to has been named in the complaint and I remembered to include references to the customer care standards and named two that I felt were clear-cut that had not been adhered to.

 

It's ASRA Housing Group. They're a big housing association that mostly deal with the East Midlands and South East England.

[stu007]

Thanks for that info

 

Now interesting that they state its the two page document which I assume they are referring to the Tenants Handbook Gas Safety which when you download it is actually titled "Gas Servicing" and a two page document (this is not the HA Gas Policy its only a Gas Servicing Leaflet thats part of the Tenants Handbook).

 

(see this link: http://www.asra.org.uk/customers/tenants-handbook/ and click on Gas Safety its an automatic PDF download)

 

What is interesting is nowhere in that document does it state your Gas will be Capped or the procedure for it to get to that stage, so this is NOT that Housing Association Gas Policy. (Its on a Gas Servicing Leaflet thats part of the Tenants Handbook)

 

Something else you could consider mentioning is why they are not putting the Housing Associations Policies & Board Minutes on their website as this would make them more open and accountable to their Service Users.

[Good Sister]

Yes, that's the document I found. I couldn't find anything else on the website.

 

I have asked as part of my complaint to see all documentation regarding their gas safety policies, however short and sweet they are. See what comes through. I've sent the complaint now, so they can think it over whilst I'm on holiday.

 

I think asking them about putting stuff on the website is something I can bring up later on - I'd rather not overcomplicate things at the moment. Just deal with one problem at a time.

[Good Sister]

I've had an email from them today. They've apologised, said it's not something they advocate or promote and they will be speaking to all contractors in order to stop it.

 

The email came from the lady who sent the email telling me that my gas could be cut off. I do believe she's genuinely sorry for her part, because I can quite believe she's acted on other people's instructions, but the words feel a bit hollow at the moment nonetheless.

 

No mention about getting the gas safety policies, so replied to the email asking for the other points in the complaint to be looked at and answered in writing.

 

It was nice to hear from them so quickly, but it does have a "brush it under the carpet" feel about it at the moment.

[stu007]

Thanks for the update

 

Insist that everything is done in writing and good for you on on insisting they answer your other question so lets wait and see if they produce what you have asked for and if not I hope they give you a very good reason.

[Good Sister]

Hello, just updating the thread to say that the HA and I have reached an agreement.

 

After informing them that I wanted a response in writing, I got an email saying that they would be addressing my complaint at Stage 2 as requested and that I would get a response by 5th August. Lo and behold, I received a reply on this date.

 

The first bit was a four page letter full of apologies, acknowledgements of their clear failings and reassurances that it will not happen again.

 

To be fair to them, they have gone to a lot of effort with the reassurances. They have given me a direct email address for their gas servicing team which I can use if the contractors plan to cut the gas off again and they have asked the contractor to apply a 'flag' against my details to remind them of my complaint. The HA acknowledge that they should be applying the policy of not capping gas consistently but the flag is a little extra. They have taken the liberty of asking the contractor for a screenshot to ensure this has been done.

 

They have again reiterated that they do not agree to capping off meters except in the case of faulty appliances or where they have got a court order to do so. They have held a staff meeting to remind their staff of this and have asked the contractors to do the same.

 

They felt that the point that was raised about how their policy should override the contractors' policy and not the other way round was a point well made. They felt that poor communication from both sides has allowed things to make it seem like that the contractor has the upper hand. They say that they would not agree to contracts that had terms in that they did not agree with, or at least had been negotiated.

 

The HA also supplied me with a copy of their gas safety policy. To be honest that is something of a disappointment. It is basically details of their responsibilities as landlords under the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations. It mentions about claiming costs from tenants who end up having legal action against them, but not much in the way of how it gets to that point. Importantly, it doesn't mention anything about capping off gas.

 

They are going to make the policy available to tenants on request and will also be making it available to front line staff to refer to should they need to.

 

They don't offer compensation for loss of earnings, but they offered me some shopping vouchers as a goodwill gesture. I am normally a cynic when it comes to goodwill gestures, but seeing as they have gone to a lot of effort and I still have to deal with them, I decided it would be in bad taste to refuse, so I accepted the offer and these vouchers are now in my possession. The retail therapy may do me some good (I'm a girl, I can't help it!)

 

I am happy to draw a line under the matter and start afresh. I do feel more confident that if the contractors took matter into their hands again that I would have the HA on my side, plus I now have lots of back-up.

 

On a slightly unrelated note, I have asked them for information on their tenants governance scheme. This incident has made me think about getting more involved and paying more attention to things in my neighbourhood that the HA need to be aware of.

 

Many thanks for all your help (again!) I have made a donation to this site for all the good work you do.

 

I expect I'll be around here again - though hopefully as the one giving out the advice and not the one asking for it next time!

 

Good Sister.