Civil Enforcement Limited claim form received

[hfz_uk]

Hi guys,

 

I got a ticket from Civil Enforcement last year.

 

I have since been following the popular advice online and have ignored all correspondence with them from all the dirty tactics

they were using by switching names in every letter

(and using names of fake solicitors companies)

and their heavily threatening letters.

 

However, i now have what appears to be a genuine County Court Claim from Northampton county council,

with what appears to be a genuine seal and claim number (sticker)!

 

They claim I was parked for 2 hours and 16 minutes in a co-op car park where the limit was 2 hours.

I honestly do not know if i was even ever there.

 

The crazy thing is this car park can hold approximately 200 cars and there are no more than 20 or so cars in there at any one time.

 

I have 4 drivers on my insurance policy (i know, but insurance isn't exactly cheap nowadays )

and none of them could even remember being there at the time, at the time i felt hard done by,

i turned to Google and ignored all correspondence from CEL.

 

What do i do next??

 

I'm really panicking here.

 

I've read these letters through and they really don't make any sense to me at all.

 

I've got 2 peach letters from the court with one titled ' N1 Claim Form' and the other 'Particulars of Claim'.

 

And also a response pack which has an 'Aknowledgement of service form',

 

a 'Defence and Counterclaim form', and an 'Admission' form.

[dx100uk]

easy batted away

 

firstly

 

can we have the PoC

EXACTLY as it appears on the N1

minus any pers details ofcourse

 

dx

[ploddertom]

Moved to Private Parking Forum

[dx100uk]

can we have the PoC please

 

dx

[armadillo71]

 

 

 

What do i do next??

 

 

 

 

Reply to dx....

 

I'm really panicking here.

 

 

 

 

Reply to dx then....

 

 

 

I've read these letters through and they really don't make any sense to me at all.

 

I've got 2 peach letters from the court with one titled ' N1 Claim Form' and the other 'Particulars of Claim'.

 

And also a response pack which has an 'Aknowledgement of service form',

 

a 'Defence and Counterclaim form', and an 'Admission' form.

 

 

These links may help;

 

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...laim-from.html

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/acpc498g042b0np/CELvMcCafferty_Judgment.doc

 

 

Edited July 18, 2014 by armadillo71
2nd link fixed.

[dx100uk]

2nd link u/s?

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

First of all stop panicking,

 

this is just another stage in the threatening behaviour of these companies, albeit one you must respond to.

 

Do you have all of the other correspondence?

 

This may well be their undoing but more importantly will tell us if procedure has been followed.

 

What is the date that you were supposed to have parked there and

how were you first notified of the breach of contract,

ticket on screen or ANPR capture and letter through post?

 

If the former, when did you get the first letter addressed to the keeper and if the latter when did you get the notice through the post.

 

What do the particulars of claim say that you have done?

 

presume money owed by way of contract or money due to breach of contract.

If so which is it?

 

Go to the COOP and photograph the signs at the entrance to the car park

and make a note of thei height from the ground and their size.

These are important.

 

You can send back the acknowledgement of service form and say that you are defending in full.

Do not tick the mediation box .

 

By doing this you now have 33 days to get a defence into court.

This doesnt have to include every detail but should be a skeleton argument for all of the points you wish to raise,

such as inadequacy of signage,

confusing terms of contract,

no contract with landowner that allows CEL to claim in their own name, no loss etc.

 

Also write to the COOP head office for the society that runs the store involved and ask them for sight of the contract

that gives CEL the right to take legal action in their own name that waqs in force at that time.

They may well not help you but often the COOP want shot of these people so will most likely help you.

 

Demand sight of the contract between them and the COOP that allows CEL to take legal action to claim from you in ther own name.

 

Give them 14 days to make this available to you.

 

They will have to provide this and if they dont it is a breach of the civil procedures rules

and you can ask for the claim to be struck out for having no "locus standi".

 

At worse that will compel CEL to produce the document or risk having the claim thrown out withour any consideration of the facts.

 

Let us know what correspndence you do have to hand and we can advise as to whether they are keeping to the protocols

or timed out to claim in the first place. CEL often get that very wrong.

[hfz_uk]

Thanks for your quick response guys, i've attached the N1.

 

I haven't got any correspondence from them,

i threw it all away only recently during a clean-up thinking i had heard the last of it.

I feel like such an idiot but I've never even received a ticket before and must admit have been slightly careless this time.

 

It happened on 12/01/13, it's an ANPR and i can remember getting a letter through the post a few weeks later.

 

Yesterday when i received the letter i honestly thought about paying it and getting it over with,

i only changed my mind after thinking about the lies and tricks CEL uses to con people

(creating fake names to deceive and threaten people is just one of them).

 

I honestly cannot believe Co Op deal with such companies,

i definitely won't be shopping there again!

 

Charging shoppers for spending too long inside the supermarket BUYING THINGS, that is insanity!

Especially considering you can park about 200 cars in that car park and their are never more than 20 or so cars in there at any one time..

 

Ok, so now that i've got that out of my system what i need to do next is:

 

1) Send back the acknowledgment form stating that i am defending in full

2) Start preparing my defence by taking pictures of signage and make a note of their height from the ground and their size

3) Write to Co Op and ask them for the contract that gives CEL the right to take legal action in their own name

and that it was in force at the time (give them 14 days to send this)

 

I don't know how to put a defense together on paper

but i honestly am so angry at the letters that CEL sent me and the dirty tactics they use that i am willing to fight this all the way.

Edited July 18, 2014 by hfz_uk

[dx100uk]

don't send the paperwork anywhere

 

register on MCOL

then login

and use the details on the claimform

 

defend all

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

you say you got a letter a few weeks later?

 

they have to send out the demand within 12 days fo the date of the supposed breach andit then has 2 days to arrive so no more than 14 days.

 

Was it after this time?

 

If so, they are timed out and they cannot claim from the keeper of the vehicle.

 

This can be used against them later on but you need to get the AOS sent in

 

and then get your defence together over the next couple of weeks.

[ericsbrother]

as they use ANPR it is for them to prove the accuracy of their equipment as far as calibration goes

and also that you were PARKED for the time stated,

not just the time of entry and exit.

 

They cant do this so that is already 1 up to you.

 

You will need to get copies of certain documents from CEL as "discovery" (now called CPR xx.xx cnt remember the numbers

but it is in the lists of Civil Procedures Regulations )

 

If they dont provide these within a certain time you can ask for the case to be struck out.

 

Judges rarely actually do this but if you dont get the documents at all and you say that you cannot defend without them

 

they will adjourn and award costs as a warning to CEL.

[hfz_uk]

don't send the paperwork anywhere

 

register on MCOL

then login

and use the details on the claimform

 

defend all

 

dx

 

Thanks, i'll get on with that

[hfz_uk]

you say you got a letter a few weeks later?

 

they have to send out the demand within 12 days fo the date of the supposed breach andit then has 2 days to arrive so no more than 14 days.

 

Was it after this time?

 

If so, they are timed out and they cannot claim from the keeper of the vehicle.

 

This can be used against them later on but you need to get the AOS sent in

 

and then get your defence together over the next couple of weeks.

 

I honestly cannot remember, i can remember it being a few weeks later but i didn't write down any dates

[hfz_uk]

First of all stop panicking,

 

this is just another stage in the threatening behaviour of these companies, albeit one you must respond to.

 

Do you have all of the other correspondence?

 

This may well be their undoing but more importantly will tell us if procedure has been followed.

 

What is the date that you were supposed to have parked there and

how were you first notified of the breach of contract,

ticket on screen or ANPR capture and letter through post?

 

If the former, when did you get the first letter addressed to the keeper and if the latter when did you get the notice through the post.

 

What do the particulars of claim say that you have done?

 

presume money owed by way of contract or money due to breach of contract.

If so which is it?

 

Go to the COOP and photograph the signs at the entrance to the car park

and make a note of thei height from the ground and their size.

These are important.

 

You can send back the acknowledgement of service form and say that you are defending in full.

Do not tick the mediation box .

 

By doing this you now have 33 days to get a defence into court.

This doesnt have to include every detail but should be a skeleton argument for all of the points you wish to raise,

such as inadequacy of signage,

confusing terms of contract,

no contract with landowner that allows CEL to claim in their own name, no loss etc.

 

Also write to the COOP head office for the society that runs the store involved and ask them for sight of the contract

that gives CEL the right to take legal action in their own name that waqs in force at that time.

They may well not help you but often the COOP want shot of these people so will most likely help you.

 

Demand sight of the contract between them and the COOP that allows CEL to take legal action to claim from you in ther own name.

 

Give them 14 days to make this available to you.

 

They will have to provide this and if they dont it is a breach of the civil procedures rules

and you can ask for the claim to be struck out for having no "locus standi".

 

At worse that will compel CEL to produce the document or risk having the claim thrown out withour any consideration of the facts.

 

Let us know what correspndence you do have to hand and we can advise as to whether they are keeping to the protocols

or timed out to claim in the first place. CEL often get that very wrong.

 

I've just driven to the car park.

They've got these big white signs absolutely everywhere, you can't miss the bloody things!

 

I should've taken pictures a year ago because i can remember their being much smaller signs and a lot less of them.

 

At the time i turned to Google and the vast majority of the advice i found said to just ignore all incoming mail from CEL which i followed to the tee:|.

 

I'm sure CEL has learnt from other cases and is trying to sort itself out.

 

I'm worried i may not have a defense now..

[hfz_uk]

Who should i ask for these documents? And do you know what they are called? Thanks in advance

[hfz_uk]

as they use ANPR it is for them to prove the accuracy of their equipment as far as calibration goes

and also that you were PARKED for the time stated,

not just the time of entry and exit.

 

They cant do this so that is already 1 up to you.

 

You will need to get copies of certain documents from CEL as "discovery" (now called CPR xx.xx cnt remember the numbers

but it is in the lists of Civil Procedures Regulations )

 

If they dont provide these within a certain time you can ask for the case to be struck out.

 

Judges rarely actually do this but if you dont get the documents at all and you say that you cannot defend without them

 

they will adjourn and award costs as a warning to CEL.

 

 

Who should i ask for these documents? And do you know what they are called? Thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

have a gander on googlearth street view

 

you might be lucky!

 

for the old signs

 

dx

[hfz_uk]

Just had a look. Unfortunately can't get into the car park with Google maps, can just see the entrance of the car park and a bit of it from a distance, 639 Roundhay Road Oakwood LS8 4BA. I'll have to try something else..

[ericsbrother]

the documents you want are the contract between the Co-op and CEL that expressly gove CEL the right to make claims in their own name. You also want the calibration data for the time before and after the event that was the cause of this action. You ask CEL, via the address on the court form for it and give them 14 days to respond.

They wont want you to see the frst and probably dont have the second so that will damage their claim.

[hfz_uk]

I am now trying to put my defense together but honestly do not know where to start. Could someone please help me??

 

I've written emails and as yet have no reply's from anyone so do not know what to write in my defense and how to write it.

[ericsbrother]

Did you acknowledge the service of the claim? If not do that NOW. Just say you are defending in full and leave it at that.

 

Ok, lets start with when was your car supposedly parked there to cause the infringement?

 

Did you get a letter through the post within 14 days.

You say you cant remember but it was a few weeks later.

Then it is probably sent outside of time allowed so that is the first thing to argue as not PoFa compliant can only chase driver, not keeper.

 

Then there is the matter of signage.

You say the old signs were much smaller and illegible.

That is your second point, CEL have obviously replaced the signs because this is true.

Cant read the sign so no contract formed to be broken.

 

Thirdly, proof af parking.

ANPR only shows time of entry and exit, not parking

so can CEL prove that you were no driving arounf the car park looking for a space,

fiddling about getting in and out of the space and/or queueing to exit the car park.

That can add up to 16 minutes on a busy day.

 

Fourthly, No proof of contract between landlord and CEL.

You should have asked for this by now and if you havent got them by the end of next week

you make a complaint to the court that CEL is refusing to follow the requirements of "discovery" under CPR (look uo the number).

They will then get into trouble should the documents fail to materialise in good time before the hearing.

 

fifthly, that they only act as agents to the Co-op so have no interest in the land

Threfore you do not believe that they ahve any locus standi- interest in he matter and therefore have no right to sue.

 

Lastly even if all of the above is found to be in CEL's favour,

they have not suffered a loss caused by the breach of the conditions and therefore their claim is an unlawful penalty,

not a genuine loss or pre-estimate of loss as required for seeking damages for breach of contract.

 

You can then quote the various bits of case law such as Dunlop, etc. Look them up via other posting or parking pranksters, links on his blog.

[hfz_uk]

Did you acknowledge the service of the claim? If not do that NOW. Just say you are defending in full and leave it at that.

 

Ok, lets start with when was your car supposedly parked there to cause the infringement?

 

Did you get a letter through the post within 14 days.

You say you cant remember but it was a few weeks later.

Then it is probably sent outside of time allowed so that is the first thing to argue as not PoFa compliant can only chase driver, not keeper.

 

Then there is the matter of signage.

You say the old signs were much smaller and illegible.

That is your second point, CEL have obviously replaced the signs because this is true.

Cant read the sign so no contract formed to be broken.

 

Thirdly, proof af parking.

ANPR only shows time of entry and exit, not parking

so can CEL prove that you were no driving arounf the car park looking for a space,

fiddling about getting in and out of the space and/or queueing to exit the car park.

That can add up to 16 minutes on a busy day.

 

Fourthly, No proof of contract between landlord and CEL.

You should have asked for this by now and if you havent got them by the end of next week

you make a complaint to the court that CEL is refusing to follow the requirements of "discovery" under CPR (look uo the number).

They will then get into trouble should the documents fail to materialise in good time before the hearing.

 

fifthly, that they only act as agents to the Co-op so have no interest in the land

Threfore you do not believe that they ahve any locus standi- interest in he matter and therefore have no right to sue.

 

Lastly even if all of the above is found to be in CEL's favour,

they have not suffered a loss caused by the breach of the conditions and therefore their claim is an unlawful penalty,

not a genuine loss or pre-estimate of loss as required for seeking damages for breach of contract.

 

You can then quote the various bits of case law such as Dunlop, etc. Look them up via other posting or parking pranksters, links on his blog.

 

 

Thanks for that! I've put my defense together with a bit of help from a friend of mine, the info you've given me and some info from the net. Have got it sent off aswell so just going to wait and see what happens now..

[hfz_uk]

I received a letter from CEL today via recorded delivery to say they are withdrawing their case against me!!!.

I will be contacting the court shortly to make sure this is definitely the case and get some sort of written confirmation.

 

Thank you all for your help guys,

 

 

i really appreciate it!

 

 

I must say i have been really stressed about it all and was dreading going to court

 

 

however i felt i had to stand up against a company that bullies, lies and harasses people to take money off them.

 

I would suggest that everybody fight them

 

 

My battle against this company has only just begun.

 

 

Their is no way they should be allowed to operate as they are doing and

intimidate the most vulnerable people into parting with their hard earned cash..

[ericsbrother]

claim your reasonable costs from them. You can claim for any loss caused by defending yourself but I would expect it to be modest, such as paper, printing costs, envelopes, postage etc. Even if it is a nominal sum of say £10.00 make sure that you write to them and demand that they pay or you will take civil action to recover the money they have caused you to spend. They wont want to risk suffering what they like to dish out so you will get the money.

[hfz_uk]

claim your reasonable costs from them. You can claim for any loss caused by defending yourself but I would expect it to be modest, such as paper, printing costs, envelopes, postage etc. Even if it is a nominal sum of say £10.00 make sure that you write to them and demand that they pay or you will take civil action to recover the money they have caused you to spend. They wont want to risk suffering what they like to dish out so you will get the money.

 

I certainly will! Thank You