Advice on Ingeus needed

[Vikix]

Hi there,

 

I am new to this forum. But I have read a few threads about Ingeus and their uselessness.

 

I was appointed a new advisor last week. I have been attending for about 1 year, I am claiming income based JSA, Atos deemed me fit for work over 2 years ago and now I'm facing a sanction.

 

My previous advisor put me forward for a job that was contracted for 8 hours a week and left the day before my interview with the company (he was transferred). I attended the interview, passed and got to the induction when I found out that it is a lot more than 8 hours per week, more like 30+ the thought of this totally wiped the floor with me and I walked home in tears deeming myself a failure.

 

This is a problem with me because I have serious mental health issues, and after a seemingly endless battle I am starting to recover. My old advisor put me forward for this job because he knew about my health issues and thought it would be a great opportunity for me to get back into work at a gentle pace and be rid of the job centre. I actually really liked my old advisor I could talk to him and be sure that I had his support all the time. Having him as an advisor was like finding gold in a slate mine.

 

However I now have this piece of slate to contend with. After I came back from the induction I called my newly appointed advisor, I was expecting him to be understanding, wrong. He told me I wasted his time and he was constantly hounding (trying to hard-sell) me into going back to the induction, I was in tears, he wasn't listening, I was clenching my fists so hard I made my palms bleed. I was so close to smashing my phone against the wall, I haven't ate or slept properly since. I don't remember the whole conversation because I was literally seeing red. I just remember him saying things like "We would all like to stay at home and watch Jeremy Kyle but we have to work wherever we want to or not" (I don't even have a TV!! And he was insinuating that I have nothing better to do other than watching TV)

 

And to top it off, I had an appointment with him the day after, when I arrived he said "Oh you sounded really worked up on the phone" I said "Yes, I was, I have a lot going on in my life now if you checked the system you would see it" He said "I cant see anything wrong with you" "I have put you forward for a pre-screening at **** Factory" I replied: I have worked there before! They sacked me after I fainted on the factory floor" "Really?!" he said "Yes" I replied. This just proved that he hasn't even looked at my CV and put me forward for a job that I didn't even agree to, however do not threat, I would happily work there again it was a nice job. He then took me away to a private room to talk about my problems. I wont list them here as they are very personal. However I felt sick to my stomach after telling this snake such information. He concluded "Well it's no excuse I came out of a six year relationship when starting this job" my problems are hardly the same, I don't blame his ex for dumping him either. He then said "I will have to tell the jobcentre" I said "Okay, at least they might listen to me" He replied: "I dont think so and hope they dont, it's no excuse to refuse employment"

 

After this conversation he dumped me on a computer to job search and conveniently disappeared when I wanted my travel costs refunded. I still have the tickets and I intend to get it back. As I was leaving (to go to the jobcentre) he said to me "YOU have to tell the jobcentre about this" I was puzzled, he was harping on about him telling the jobcentre "especially because the job was provided by a4e???" I am so confused, what is going on?

 

PS I submitted a complaint on Saturday via email.

 

Any help will be appreciated

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Hello Vikix and welcome to the site. Sorry to learn of your predicament and the way you are being treated. Having read about claimant’s experiences with Ingeus and other Work Programme Providers it should come as no surprise to you that they are not only incompetent but heartless with it for the most part.

 

You say that you submitted a complaint but you have not said to whom you submitted it. As this is an issue arising out of treatment at the hands of Work Programme advisers your first step should be to use their internal complaints procedure to lodge a formal complaint. Make sure to include the fact that abusive and insulting treatment by the adviser is not acceptable. If they fail to address your complaints to your satisfaction then you take the matter up with your Jobcentre.

 

If you intend to pursue this grievance, and I can see no reason why you should not, it would be advisable to check and consider amending your Jobseekers Agreement (JSAg). On page 2 it asks:

“I want to limit the days and hours I am available for work”. You have the option of answering “No” or “Yes”

Further down the page it provides a space where one can enter:

“Other agreed restrictions on my availability or types of work”.

Are those sections of your JSAg filled in to take account of the limitations that your condition imposes on you?

If those sections are not filled in to your satisfaction, or do not take account of any health conditions that you may have, then you entitled to have it reviewed and altered, where appropriate, at any time. This is a right that you have, to agree or disagree with anything that a Jobcentre adviser may want to include in your JSAg where there are reasonable grounds for doing so. Your doctor and your previous WP adviser could provide you with confirmation that the details you want entering in your JSAg are reasonable under the circumstances.

Next, you say that you agreed with your previous adviser to apply for a job that had as one of its terms and conditions 8 hrs per week. After being successful in your application and accepting the job on the terms and conditions as stated when you applied for and accepted it those terms and conditions were altered, presumably without your knowledge or without being given the opportunity of consenting to, or rejecting, the new terms and conditions. What happened here, in my view, is a clear breach of contractual law, offer and acceptance. Basically, you were sold a pup, you did not get what you were offered and that you accepted or expected.

Your new adviser will doubtless have already contacted the Jobcentre and set the wheels in motion to have you sanctioned. Therefore you would be well advised to contact the Jobcentre yourself (letter to manager) informing them that you have started formal proceedings against your WP Provider and explaining the position from your point of view, including the abusive and insulting remarks. You may also enclose a copy of your formal letter of complaint to WP Provider for their records. That copy would then be available to a Decision Maker, should it go that far. It is unlikely that the WP Provider would forward their copy of your letter of complaint. It would not make them look very good.

Best of luck to you and don’t let them get to, keep in touch and I’m sure support and advice will be gladly given if it’s at all possible.

 

[Vikix]

Thanks for the reply.

 

I submitted my complaint through the email address on the Ingeus website. info@ingeus. I am yet to be replied to...

 

I am unsure what the JSAg is. Is it the little booklet that they supply you with? If so, they gave me a new booklet on Friday (the same day of my ingeus appointment) after being moved to another jobcentre, this was simply because the other jobcentre I used to attend was over run. Anyway everything was blank apart from my NI no. and signing location, date and time. I assume they have my agreement on the computer. However as far as I am aware, I made no restrictions regarding work conditions apart from the fact that I cannot do any continuous heavy lifting because I have curvature of the spine. I know that this is definitely in my agreement. To be honest I am not sure wherever the jobcentre are fully aware of my mental health conditions, this is mainly down to the fact at the time of startng my new claim I was feeling better... I really dont know.

 

Anyway, I do not know if ingeus has told the JC yet, as I should receive my payment tomorrow, and I have heard that the jobcentre like to tell claimants they have been sanctioned about a week after they were expecting their payment?

 

I am not sure if the job terms and conditions were changed, or if I/my old advisor were just misinformed. I was told (by word of mouth) that the job is "an 8 hour contract" by my old advisor. I thought it would have been perfect but now I'm stuck in this mess

 

Do I have to write the complaint to the manager at the jobcentre I attend or does it have to be another manager? I am not sure, please can you provide an address? I want to make sure that this goes to the right place.

 

I am also withdrawing my consent for ingeus to contact me after I find a job so they cannot get paid for my work.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

You should submit your complaint in the first instance, formally in a written letter, to the manager of the Work Programme premises that you are attending. Copy to their head office and to the Jobcentre that you use at this point, if you choose, explaining that you have lodged an official complaint. You are bound to know better than anyone the addresses and/or locations of the places you frequent.

 

JSAg is short for Jobseeker’s Agreement. It is supposed to be a statement of what you have agreed with your Jobcentre adviser that you would do to find work, that’s why it’s called an ‘agreement’.

 

It is a 4 page document that is supposed to list the sort of work you are looking for and what you have agreed to do to find it. Once what is to be included is agreed between both yourself and your Jobcentre adviser it is then signed by both yourself and your Jobcentre adviser. One copy is given to you and the Jobcentre keeps a copy.

 

The document that you are describing that is mostly blank sounds like you may be describing your signing on card. It certainly isn’t your JSAg.

 

If you have lost or misplaced your copy it would be advisable to ask the Jobcentre to give you another, in addition to the copy they kept that you signed they will have an electronic copy on their computer files. Your new Jobcentre should be able to print out a copy for you in a matter of minutes, suggest you check what is in it, decide what you want to be in it, then arrange to have it done.

 

If there is no indication on your JSAg that there could or should be barriers to your employability in particular respects then it is up to you to see to it that a new agreement be written out listing those barriers or restrictions.

 

About the job, you can’t not be sure. You said that you were given or led to believe that a condition of the job offer was that it was 8 hrs per week, you applied on that condition and accepted on that condition. You did not apply for nor did you knowingly accept a 30+ hr per week job. This is a legitimate reason for turning the job down, if you decide to use that reason in aid then you need to be sure of it and stick to it.

 

If your payment is not received tomorrow as expected set the above processes in motion. Obviously if you wish to make a formal complaint about the conduct of your work placement adviser you can do so anytime, where it is justified. It would not be prudent to make a complaint about the job under discussion or a sanction until you know that the sanction has been applied and the reason for it given. That, as you say, will be tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

 

PS: When was the last time you signed on? was it before or after your conversation with the placement adviser? Were you or your Jobcentre adviser aware of this problem when you signed on? Was the matter discussed at all or were you told that there may be a sanction doubt imminent?

[Vikix]

Okay, I will get a written complaint letter and request to be seen by a different advisor written today.

 

I have the other prescreening at Ingeus tomorrow for the factory job I spoke about I will hand the letter into the receptionist and ensure it goes to the manager. No matter what my "crime" was I did not deserve to be spoken to like that.

 

It is inconvenient, but forgetfulness is also a symptom of my health problems that I have to deal with daily, so I am sorry that I cannot recall these things. I will however be attending the jobcentre on Friday, this issue will be raised with them.

 

I have also booked in to see my GP in just over two weeks to have my MH conditions reviewed.

 

Thank you for your help.

[Vikix]

PS: When was the last time you signed on? was it before or after your conversation with the placement adviser? Were you or your Jobcentre adviser aware of this problem when you signed on? Was the matter discussed at all or were you told that there may be a sanction doubt imminent?

 

 

I was told on the phone one day before my signing day that "he has no choice but to tell the jobcentre." (10/7/2014)

I was also told on the next day at my ingeus appointment, about 30 minutes before my signing on appointment that "He is going to tell the jobcentre" (11/7/2014)

I was told just as I was leaving the ingeus building that I (myself) should tell the jobcentre. (11/7/2014)

 

I signed on on the 11/7/2014 which was on friday straight after my Ingeus appointment. The jobcentre did not raise any issue when I attended. Nor was the issue discussed.

 

 

 

 

Ugh, another edit. I have just realised that my payment should go through the day after tomorrow. I am one day ahead of myself!

Edited July 14, 2014 by Vikix

[Lapsed Workaholic]

PS: When was the last time you signed on? was it before or after your conversation with the placement adviser? Were you or your Jobcentre adviser aware of this problem when you signed on? Was the matter discussed at all or were you told that there may be a sanction doubt imminent?

 

 

I was told on the phone one day before my signing day that "he has no choice but to tell the jobcentre." (10/7/2014)

I was also told on the next day at my ingeus appointment, about 30 minutes before my signing on appointment that "He is going to tell the jobcentre" (11/7/2014)

I was told just as I was leaving the ingeus building that I (myself) should tell the jobcentre. (11/7/2014)

 

I signed on on the 11/7/2014 which was on friday straight after my Ingeus appointment. The jobcentre did not raise any issue when I attended. Nor was the issue discussed.

 

 

 

 

Ugh, another edit. I have just realised that my payment should go through the day after tomorrow. I am one day ahead of myself!

 

 

If your Jobcentre adviser didn't mention anything or didn't inform you that a Doubt had been raised then, unless the madness already in the system has gone into overdrive, you should be receiving your benefit payment as usual.

[Vikix]

If your Jobcentre adviser didn't mention anything or didn't inform you that a Doubt had been raised then, unless the madness already in the system has gone into overdrive, you should be receiving your benefit payment as usual.

 

I hope you are correct, I have so much to pay. I'm already overdrawn in my bank account.

I have never been in such a situation before.

 

If the ingeus advisor decided to inform the jobcentre about an hour or two after my signing on appointment, would they still withhold my money on wednesday?

 

As I understand it when I sign on, the woman/man at the desk releases a payment. Are they allowed to just change their minds after it has been released?

[Lapsed Workaholic]

I’m not sure if Ingeus advisers can instigate the sanction procedure and get it to kick in during the short period of time between a claimant’s signing on and the payment being released.

I can’t see any circumstances where a Jobcentre adviser would change their mind having authorised the payment. But between the adviser authorising payment and the payment actually being released it may be possible for intervention by others to put a stop to the payment.

Rather than put yourself through a period of anxiety until Wednesday it may put your mind at rest if you contact the Jobcentre and enquire if their systems are registering that a sanction has been applied.

[antone]

It's not really a question of whether they're "allowed" to stop your payment after it's been released. It's an automated process and it's a serious pain to stop a payment once issued. So I'd think your money should be in the bank as normal.

 

If a sanction is to be considered, you should be given the opportunity to tell the Jobcentre your side of the story before any payments are stopped. It seems that recently this aspect of the process is sometimes neglected, but as far as I'm aware it's still the rule - the Decision Maker considering the matter should take your explanation into account.

[Vikix]

I don't need to call them, I will know tomorrow because I have online banking with HSBC so I can see pending transactions 24 hours before my account is credited/debited.

 

And to be honest I would really like to sleep tonight without panicing about this, that and the other

[Vikix]

I will keep this thread updated as much as possible during my pending "sentence"

[antone]

I will keep this thread updated as much as possible during my pending "sentence"

 

That would be helpful, thanks!

[whatever2014]

Hi, does anyone have a basic template for 'freedom of information' request? I've had enough of Ingeus and their 'tactics'.

[Mr.P]

F.o.I. requests should be directed to the DWP. If you go via https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/ you can post a link to the response for others to view.

 

If you are seeking personal information, then you will need to submit a Subject Access Request, again, directed to the DWP. The DWP do not charge the usual £10 fee for a SAR, and as they are the data controllers for Work Programme providers, they must supply all information held by the provider if asked for it.

 

Now the question is: What information are you looking for ?

If it is DWP issued guidance, this can be readily accessed on the internet.

[whatever2014]

Mr.P

 

Hi, and thanks for the information.

In regards to your question of 'what information you'd like to know', EVERYTHING! Plus, the comfort in wasting a little of Ingeus' time, since they've literally hounded and tormented me for the last few weeks, as I presume that the DWP will contact them asking them for the relevant info'?

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Mr.P

 

Hi, and thanks for the information.

In regards to your question of 'what information you'd like to know', EVERYTHING! Plus, the comfort in wasting a little of Ingeus' time, since they've literally hounded and tormented me for the last few weeks, as I presume that the DWP will contact them asking them for the relevant info'?

The DWP will only respond to FOI requests where they have information within the department that will they hope answer your question.

If you seek answers to questions that only outside bodies or organisations can answer or if costly investigations or research is required to find an answer then they will inform you that they do not hold the information or it’s too costly to provide it.

Either way your intention to inconvenience Ingeus , though laudable, would not be effected using FOI requests.

[whatever2014]

The DWP will only respond to FOI requests where they have information within the department that will they hope answer your question.

If you seek answers to questions that only outside bodies or organisations can answer or if costly investigations or research is required to find an answer then they will inform you that they do not hold the information or it’s too costly to provide it.

Either way your intention to inconvenience Ingeus , though laudable, would not be effected using FOI requests.

 

Okay, thanks. Although the response I got from my (now former) adviser to my threat to hit Ingeus with a FOI request was met with the respone, 'okay, just make sure it's a written request' (like I was going to walk in and ANNOUNCE it?!)? I'm guessing said adviser is not aware of the procedure, not unlike myself? ;p

[Chester6]

I'm unsure how useful it is to tell your past to Ingeous or issues as they don't seem to talk to each other and it doesn't seem to have helped with the latest one

Good luck though and the point about the hours and your health should help in theory

[vinny47]

Okay, thanks. Although the response I got from my (now former) adviser to my threat to hit Ingeus with a FOI request was met with the respone, 'okay, just make sure it's a written request' (like I was going to walk in and ANNOUNCE it?!)? I'm guessing said adviser is not aware of the procedure, not unlike myself? ;p

 

 

fOI requests need to be addressed for a a Public Body such as the DWP Ingeus do not have to reply to FOI requests, if you want all the information that DWP and Ingeus have about you , you need to request a SAR to the DWP as Mr P posted in message no 15

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Okay, thanks. Although the response I got from my (now former) adviser to my threat to hit Ingeus with a FOI request was met with the respone, 'okay, just make sure it's a written request' (like I was going to walk in and ANNOUNCE it?!)? I'm guessing said adviser is not aware of the procedure, not unlike myself? ;p

Judging by the contributions made by many claimants on this site, and many other sites, it would be fair to say that their experiences of advisers would lead them to guess, as you have, that advisers are not aware of procedures.

 

The advice Mr. P gave in post 15 is clear and concise and, as far as I know, the only sure fire way to get your hands on any information or details about you held by Ingeus. It would also involve Ingeus in the time consuming process of gathering and collating said information and details for presentation, thus fulfilling your stated aim of wasting their time, if that is what you believe it would be.

Better perhaps to address the issues with which you are being hounded and tormented and confront them with those with a view to making them take the time and the effort to resolve them to your satisfaction.

[Mr.P]

Although the response I got from my (now former) adviser to my threat to hit Ingeus with a FOI request was met with the respone, 'okay, just make sure it's a written request'

 

F.o.I. requests will only elicit information when directed at a government body/agency. Private companies like Ingeus can and will ignore any such request as they are under no obligation to respond. If you want to waste their time and get up the noses of the "advisers" (a high risk strategy that could result in sanctions): Be a pedant, read everything carefully, and in triplicate, correct all spelling mistakes along the way. Make sure your appointments last longer than they want. Report every breach of client confidentiality to the DWP, and record all conversations.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

Hi Vikix Sorry to hear you're having problems with Ingeus (join the club lol) your advisor sounds a nasty piece of work

[essexmat]

All 'advisers' at WPs are manipulative and self centred. As I keep saying, they are not there to help you in any way, they are there for their bonuses and to tick boxes to make it look as though they are doing something. I do not know of one person who has got a decent job from being at INGEUS and those that have it has been off their own back and efforts. Even the CV they tried to do for me was full of spelling mistakes and bad punctuation. They are not professionals, they are simply admin people.

[Vikix]

Hello again everyone. So I went to Ingeus today for my pre-screening for the factory job as noted in my Original post.

 

Well I could have smacked him in the face.

 

I arrived 15 minutes early 1.45pm. Only to walk into a room of people having the pre-screening. It started an hour before I arrived even though my advisor told me that it would be at 2pm... Nope, he never gave me any written conformation

 

It was me and another girl. We both have the same advisor.

 

After I told her that I can't stand him and trying not to put a chair over his head. I stormed up to his desk and told him that it started an hour ago. "Oh really? Okay I wall book you both onto another one but I am going for my break now. Seems as though you are supposed to be here for 2 hours, just give me a quick half an hour jobsearch" and off he flounced. I have had it up to here with this man!

 

Luckily another advisor (much friendlier) sorted it for us, we are trying again next week. He even gave us written confirmation and refunded my bus fare from today and last Friday's appointment.

 

UGH! Now I am actually starting to think that he just has it in for most of his "clients"