Tories discuss stripping benefits claimants who refuse treatment

[fletch70]

Well if you suffer and your Dr will give you a sick note then go onto ESA

 

Oh and I was only taking the P about the holiday.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Is it not the case that Work Programme Providers are obliged through their advisers to provide such support and help to claimants referred to them as is appropriate to the individual needs of said claimants?

 

If claimants have particular physical or mental issues that need to be taken into consideration in determining the sort of support and help they need does it not follow that advisers generally should be trained to recognise and appreciate the existence of such issues and either give the appropriate help and support themselves or direct claimants to where more adequate or qualified support can be offered?

 

Where medically qualified professionals have diagnosed specific health issues relating to a claimant and prescribed remedy it can’t be right that an adviser or anyone else without the appropriate qualifications can overturn such diagnosis, prognosis and prescription.

 

Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights states:

 

Article 3

Right to the integrity of the person

1. Everyone has the right to respect for his or her physical and mental integrity.

2. In the fields of medicine and biology, the following must be respected in particular:

(a) the free and informed consent of the person concerned, according to the procedures laid down by law;

 

Section 6(1) of The Human Rights Act 1998 a UK law states:

 

Acts of public authorities.

It is unlawful for a public authority to act in a way which is incompatible with a Convention right.

 

I thank God that I don’t suffer from any of the physical or mental health conditions that many who have contributed here have to bear daily and I don’t claim to understand or know all the answers but I have one proposal that may be worth considering.

 

If all claimants prepared a letter to be handed to any and all such people as claim to know what is best for them it might put an end to the sort of abusive and insulting treatment we keep reading about.

 

The letter could be something along the lines;

 

To whom it may concern.

 

Be advised that I, (your name), request that you consider carefully and bear in mind my particular medical condition and needs while fulfilling your obligations to provide me with the individualised support both yourself and the organisation you represent have contracted to provide.

 

(Include details of medical condition)

 

Failure on your part to comply with this request could result in both yourself and the organisation that you represent being liable for breach of UK law as well as the European Convention on Human Rights.

 

Any deterioration in my physical or mental condition resulting from my taking part in any mandatory activities proposed by you will result in my taking action for compensatory redress.

 

One could also insist that any letter of mandation should contain a statement to the effect that one's letter has been received, read and understood.

I know it might be easier for me to suggest this course of action than it would be for some with the sort of medical conditions quoted to undertake. I only put it forward as a proposal that might make the buggers who persecute you think.

[dyfed]

Many MH sufferers have duel diagnosis. The nasty party have not thought about that.

[Nystagmite]

Is it not the case that Work Programme Providers are obliged through their advisers to provide such support and help to claimants referred to them as is appropriate to the individual needs of said claimants?

 

Supposedly. From experience, they don't. It didn't matter how many times they were told as per the Equalities Act 2010, they have to make reasonable adjustments, they ignored my request. They then went one stage further and claim that the people involved in my care and diagnoses, were liars.

 

My GP was not pleased.

[fletch70]

Lapsed,

I am sure you are right but at the risk of being told off for being political it all comes down to money. They get a fee for each person they take on and a fee for each person they get into work. It is targets targets targets so some do not give two hoots (polite version) about the individual , its get them in get them in a job get paid. I would be interested to know if they get any extra payment for getting people off the jobless total or in other words getting them sanctioned

[Nystagmite]

Many MH sufferers have duel diagnosis. The nasty party have not thought about that.

 

Some also have physical disabilities. They may also be on other treatment which may interfere with some prescribed forms of treatment.

[antone]

Lapsed,

I am sure you are right but at the risk of being told off for being political it all comes down to money. They get a fee for each person they take on and a fee for each person they get into work. It is targets targets targets so some do not give two hoots (polite version) about the individual , its get them in get them in a job get paid. I would be interested to know if they get any extra payment for getting people off the jobless total or in other words getting them sanctioned

 

They don't get paid merely for getting someone sanctioned, no. That would be too big a conflict of interest even for the present government.

[worried33]

given where I am now, health regressed a lot in past few weeks, and fighting the NHS for treatment.

 

I can see myself cracking, I already have had suicide issues in the past, but I am starting to get those thoughts again, currently not got benefit issues, but if one pops up now I can see myself cracking.

[Guest]

Nystagmite...I agree there...I have bipolar and a physical condition which has many symptoms which affect me in so many ways, it would be like a massive mangled ball of wool to untangle to anyone not qualified and fully understanding it all to even treat. It has taken me some 10 yrs to finally get the meds and diagnosis right on all of it.

[fletch70]

Worried

Please return to your GP and tell them how you are feeling . There is support out there you know

[fletch70]

Thanks Antone

Shows just how cynical I am becoming

[worried33]

Worried

Please return to your GP and tell them how you are feeling . There is support out there you know

 

what makes you think I haven't done this?

[fletch70]

Well it would be wrong of me to ignore someone who says they are having suicidal thoughts . Sadly online I know nothing about you so can not offer any practical help except urge you to use the services available

[antone]

Thanks Antone

Shows just how cynical I am becoming

 

Under the circumstances, cynicism is not unreasonable.

[worried33]

Well it would be wrong of me to ignore someone who says they are having suicidal thoughts . Sadly online I know nothing about you so can not offer any practical help except urge you to use the services available

 

right now I am not, but my mental outlook has dipped a ton, but yeah thanks for the concern.

 

Sadly my GP's are not offering any services that require a referral.

[fletch70]

I think there are certain services you can self refer to but I am not sure.

 

Do you know why your mental health has deteriorated, is there something specific that maybe you could find help for

 

I remember my wife when she was having bad days/weeks / There was nothing you could say or do that would get her out of it and she became a little woe is me and don't I deserve to be depressed although to be fair she had had a pretty ****ty life through no real fault of her own.

[worried33]

simply due to lack of hope, physical health problems restricting my daily activites with no help in sight.

in the past it happened due to that combined with anxiety of losing benefits.

 

its back now as my health has regressed a lot in the past few weeks.

[estellyn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28281839

[jadeybags]

I guess as long as they don't expect people to magically find a job whilst getting treatment. It makes sense for people to TRY & get help for themselves.

A percentage of people may find it does help them.

Or have I been watching too much of the Speakmans miracle cures on tv this week....

[Nystagmite]

But the waiting lists for help are too long. And then there's people for which the help they need doesn't actually exist. And the help given doesn't work.

[estellyn]

But the waiting lists for help are too long. And then there's people for which the help they need doesn't actually exist. And the help given doesn't work.

 

Yes, the concern is that people will be pushed into inappropriate therapy, without the approval of a mental health professional familiar with their care.

 

However, as I said before, if more resources are put into treatments that people do need and have been waiting for, then that would be a good thing.

 

as long as there is no threat involved - any treatment is far less likely to successful with a large stick waiting to fall.

[Guest]

So does this mean that all the cutbacks which affected the available "help and treatment" will now be reinstated.......or is it to be a needle in a haystack hunt the treatment plan, while your unwell.

And I also heard via the site I don't use as I wont pay for membership, but still get emails as I found that before I came here and stayed, that they are getting reports of mass alleged dwp tactics to report esa and pip claimants for fraud to lower the number of claimants............

[fletch70]

Ruby

I have also had that email. I can not comment on the validity of the claim but I would have thought we would have seen more ESA claimants coming to groups like this for help if that was the case.

As for the rest of it, as of yet it is a thought so no action has been taken . I try not to worry about what hasn't happened yet

[Lapsed Workaholic]

This exchange in the House of Commons during Health Questions yesterday might help to quash the rumours that the originator of this thread warned about.

 

Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op):

 

I listened carefully to what the Minister said in answer to the Chair of the Health Committee, the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston), but will he clarify that there is no truth to reports that the Government are considering plans that would mean people with mental illness having their benefits stopped if they refused treatment? Rather than people refusing treatment, are not the increasing shortage of beds and ever longer treatment delays under this Government the real reasons why people are not receiving the help that they desperately need?

The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman Lamb):

I can confirm, as I already have done, that there is no truth in the rumour. Indeed, in August we anticipate publishing the start of trial programmes to bring together IAPT—improving access to psychological therapies—with Jobcentre Plus. The idea of ensuring that people who are out of work and have mental health problems get access to psychological therapies is incredibly important, and I am very excited about the pilots that we will launch in August.

Might be advisable to look out for details of this new scheme all the same.

[estellyn]

My husband has been referred for cbt through iapt - so far it involved an assessment by someone I felt was not terribly good, and he has been offered to go to a course explaining cbt while he is waiting for sessions to start. He is pretty severe, so I'm not optimistic how much help it will be - like many with mental health issues, he wants to try anything if it might help him feel better and function better. He doesn't claim ESA, so it is not through JCP, but is through iapt, so the process may be similar for ESA claimants on the scheme.