Can Council Tax Arrears passed to Newlyn PLC be recalled back on vunerability **Resolved** grounds?

[LadyDay]

I had a bad few years from 2011 onwards after getting Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (which left me bed bound), and subsequently losing my job, having a child bereavement and all the anxiety and depression that came with all that.

 

Prior to that I had a decent job and my OH and I had divided up the bills accordingly, with me paying Council Tax amongst other things. Unbeknownst to my OH, when the proverbials hit the fan, I just 'switched off' ignored my payment responsibilities (hiding bills etc ) until things got out of hand and the CT bill got passed first to Newlyn PLC.

 

Long story short, I've applied for benefits (and after selling off some of my belongings) have managed to pay off an outstanding amount of over £1500 (directly to the Council) in the last year including £190 in court costs, with only £100 of the CT arrears remaining. However, Newlyn EA fees keep sky rocketing and according to their last letter (I have never been in contact with them), the debt is £470 and counting. The new legislation that came in April just complicates things further!

 

Anyway, my social worker just rang the CT department and explained that under the circumstances, (being diagnosed with a chronic illness and mental health issues) that I should be considered a vunerable person or a vunerable household.

 

However, the CT call centre operative, who conferred with CT Recovery dept has said that since the CT was in both mine and my OH's name, making him therefore jointly liable for the debt (even though he wasn't aware of it because I was hiding the letters) my specific circumstances made no difference and that there would be no circumstance in which the household would be considered vunerable.

 

Meaning they would not consider calling the debt back.

 

The conversation took all of 3 minutes and they were very closed to considering anything. They would not even pass my social worker onto the Recovery dept so she could speak directly to them.

 

I guess I'm asking if their position is the correct one or whether there might be anything I can do?

 

It was a massive blip caused by unforeseen health issues but it seems that any support or consideration is not forthcoming from the Council.

 

Any views would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

Edited July 11, 2014 by LadyDay

[i hate bailiffs]

Sorry for your loss.

That is the normal reply from the council they do not care

 

Contact your local councillors

And local MP

it should kick the council into touch and get the debt back

 

I would say you are a vulnerable household

 

Formal complaint to council

[LadyDay]

Cheers, I appreciate that.

The CT woman was practically snorting with derision when my Social worker spoke to her and falling over herself to spout the infamous CT commandment 'thoust must contact the Balliffs'!

So okay, my MP is next port of call.

[wonkeydonkey]

Your local councillor should be the first port of call.

 

IMHO...to have a social worker raising the issues of vulnerability tends to suggest the Council needs to prick up their ears.

[LadyDay]

You'd think so, but alas...

 

Sorry yes - local councillor first!

 

Thanks you guys!

[i hate bailiffs]

You'd think so, but alas...

 

Sorry yes - local councillor first!

 

Thanks you guys!

Let us know how you get on

[brassnecked]

Get the Social Worker to send a letter highlighting and indicating the issues you have, and yes if YOU are vulnerable the whole household is, send the evidence from SS to Revenue Dept Bailiffs and Council CEO.

[LadyDay]

Great thanks. I'm starting to build a strong picture of how to respond to this.

 

Admittedly, my social worker (who has been a brilliant support) was a little flustered when the CT worker told her point blank there was no way the debt would be called back because my OH was jointly liable and therefore should just pay the balliffs directly.

 

My SW did say she'd get more advice on the issue but seemed resigned to the inevitability of having to contact the balliffs at some point. but that will just send my stress levels through the roof!

 

But I will get my SW to write that letter verifying my condition etc. and see how all that goes first. thanks all

Edited July 11, 2014 by LadyDay

[hallowitch]

send a recorded delivery letter (or hand it in and get a receipt ) and an e-mail to the council and ask them to give you a complete breakdown of all bailiff fees

[Talk sense]

Great thanks. I'm starting to build a strong picture of how to respond to this.

 

Admittedly, my social worker (who has been a brilliant support) was a little flustered when the CT worker told her point blank there was no way the debt would be called back because my OH was jointly liable and therefore should just pay the balliffs directly.

 

My SW did say she'd get more advice on the issue but seemed resigned to the inevitability of having to contact the balliffs at some point. but that will just send my stress levels through the roof!

 

But I will get my SW to write that letter verifying my condition etc. and see how all that goes first. thanks all

 

Give the EO in charge a call.

Be straight and honest.

Bailiff companies use call centres who are also paid commission to collect payment. This is maybe why you are getting no joy there.

 

The EO has normally had some life experience and understands not everyone can pay.

The fees will remain as they're now I would guess, because of the new fee structure. So no worry of any further a tribulation of added fees.

 

If you speak with the bailiff/eo as you have written I don't see a problem.

In my experience.

You will always get a better deal of repayment through the EO/bailiff than anybody else. And it's them who can offer you piece of mind and let you get sleep at night.

 

In General people don't get what they need in times of difficulty because they're speaking under great pressure, after sleepiness nights and untold amounts of worry.

 

But if you can manage to hold things together and speak with honesty and calmly, stating the facts.

You will get what you want.

Trust me!

 

By the way I'm a bailiff.

 

And you have my upmost sympathy and respect.

A full respect to be getting back on the horse and going again.

It can't be easy.

 

But you'll be fine.

 

EO's will always ask you to pay in full firstly.

If you don't ask you don't get. Or at least that's what my mum told ME.

 

Be honest and fair with the EA and they'll help you, more than anybody else.

 

Cnl, debt management, cab, bailiff office.

Speak with the EA

[LadyDay]

Thanks Talksense, yours is a valuable perspective to have so hope you don't mind me asking a few questions?

 

I have a family member who has looked up some information (and is helping me write the suggested letter and forum posts!! ) but I know you're suggesting to speak directly to the balliffs. Anyway he's just found Newlyn PLC's own code of practice regarding vunerable people which it says include those with: serious illness, mental impairment, physical disabilities and severe financial difficulties. He says, according to the information,

 

'where a debtor falls into a vunerable persons category, recovery action will be referred back to the billing authority where the criteria has been found to have been met'.

 

So wouldn't Newlyns possibly have to consider this in relation to my case (vunerable household?) as this is what I would also be explaining regarding my situation if I was to speak to them?

 

Also maybe you could help me regarding fees and the new structure? I actually owe £90.60 on my original bill but the Balliff letter says I owe £458.10, which would come to £367.50. As of yesterday I know about a £75 contact letter and the £235 for Control of Goods letter but NO Balliff has been into my house. So if I 'owed' them £310 - what might the other £57.40 be for?? And can they keep charging loads more on top?

 

I find it so demoralising and stressful to tell you the truth!

 

but thanks

[i hate bailiffs]

As you fall into vulnerable household bailiff action is not allowed

 

Deal with council via local councillors and local MP

 

The bailiffs will be after one thing money

 

They will tell you they have a court order/warrant and you must pay them

 

They can call it what they want all it is a liability order nothing else

 

There is no right of entry for bailiffs

No locksmith

No arrest

Bailiff action must stop as a vulnerable household

[LadyDay]

Well we're already beginning to put the formal complaint letter together so if I get some stronger support documents via social worker and local councillor then hopefully the Council should take more notice and will have to at least put something in writing in return. I should think they would have to have all their facts straight when they respond rather then settling for info via some Council Tax Call centre woman. Cheers

[Talk sense]

Thanks Talksense, yours is a valuable perspective to have so hope you don't mind me asking a few questions?

 

I have a family member who has looked up some information (and is helping me write the suggested letter and forum posts!! ) but I know you're suggesting to speak directly to the balliffs. Anyway he's just found Newlyn PLC's own code of practice regarding vunerable people which it says include those with: serious illness, mental impairment, physical disabilities and severe financial difficulties. He says, according to the information,

 

'where a debtor falls into a vunerable persons category, recovery action will be referred back to the billing authority where the criteria has been found to have been met'.

 

So wouldn't Newlyns possibly have to consider this in relation to my case (vunerable household?) as this is what I would also be explaining regarding my situation if I was to speak to them?

 

Also maybe you could help me regarding fees and the new structure? I actually owe £90.60 on my original bill but the Balliff letter says I owe £458.10, which would come to £367.50. As of yesterday I know about a £75 contact letter and the £235 for Control of Goods letter but NO Balliff has been into my house. So if I 'owed' them £310 - what might the other £57.40 be for?? And can they keep charging loads more on top?

 

I find it so demoralising and stressful to tell you the truth!

 

but thanks

 

Fees would only rise in the event of a removal and the use of a 3rd party.

Not on the completion of an arrangement which you could agree direct.

The charge may be liability costs.(court)

 

I don't even feel, been or being vulnerable has anything to do with bailiffs and collection.

As far as I am concerned not having money and having bailiffs knock at your door makes you vulnerable.

 

I simply think a need for common sense is needed and often prevails.

Bailiff companies want your business and even repeated business.

And why not if it's offered in fairness in the correct manner.

 

All Companies are the same.

Debt management companies for instance.

Are they really so great??

No, but they help you out of the situation your in, but do they?

They take a %.

They don't reduce the bill or get costs removed, they only add to the costs.

It's only there ability to negotiate, by information given to them by the debtor, which keeps them in business.

They don't do it for free. And definitely not for the love of the debtor.

 

Loans companies.

Help you out but cost you more money?

 

Seriously deal with the bailiff.

 

There's this big thing:

Don't let bailiffs in?

Don't answer the door?

 

I've never been in a property for the last few years.

There's no need to.

It's how you deal/treat people.

 

Blood from a stone!!

 

Even if I got in what can I take????

At my time! So generally at my own cost!

 

You are on here trying to find a way to pay your bill.

That's all.

Your not running away or even denying payment.

 

If more people felt comfortable in contacting the bailiff and entering into arrangement nothing else is necessary.

 

They don't need to be in your home to do this.

Mp's , solicitors and all that only add to the stress and drag the situation on longer.

 

If I were the bailiff in charge it would be black and white.

How much is your balance ?

Can you pay in full? Yes/no?

If not? Why?

How much can you pay?

And how much can you afford as an arrangement amount.

 

Now that's after either a phone call from receiving my letter or contact at the door. However I appreciate people feeling a little put off at the door. But to pick the phone up in the house while with family and being secure in your own home is very simple.

It wouldn't matter to me if you had a car or not or anything of value in the home.

You don't want you grief , I don't want the grief.

I want you to pay, you want to pay

It's about fairness.

 

You knock on my wife's door while I'm at work away.. Regardless of reason.

If your a stranger?

She's vulnerable.

Bailiffs understand that.

 

I've called to people's premises who live in nice properties and own lovely cars.

Do I just take the car that they've grafted for all their life?

No?

I don't even need to threaten to remove it!

 

Why??

 

Because irrespective of your circumstances most people just want to pay but havnt been able to due to their financial position.

So you give a little time. Like I'd give you.

 

Removal of good and controlled goods agreements.

Not needed and Not necessary.

If you can't trust people to keep their word? A piece of paper doesn't make no difference.

 

If you then want arrangement? Do I spend more time securing the goods in your house? Because I don't trust you?

No!

Theirs not many people once you have a heart to heart with and tell you what they can and can't do, and get your help and advice either then let themselves down or the bailiff.

 

Common sense, decency, help and an understanding.

 

I really don't get the whole not doing this not doing that rubbish.

Go too MP or complain or complain to the court?

 

Put it this way!

If I was in your position. I'd phone the bailiff, the ordinary working man, and tell him/her position.

Explain that I will pay but I can only pay this(eg).

 

If then refused I'd speak again and explain to why I can only pay what I offer.

I'd explain that I will pay, I want to pay, but with a hand on my heart this is all I can do. I'm just asking you for your help and a little bit of time.

 

When anybody has approached me like this I've always always given them what they want always.

 

Shout n ball, threaten, abuse and you'll get nowhere.

 

When I buy a sofa for example but I need a deal.

I'm the nicest man in the world because I'll mannered rude aggressive people get nowhere.

 

That goes for both debtor and bailiff.

 

Talk to your bailiff. Do as I say, and then re submit a post.

And tell me I was wrong.

 

All the other posts.

Do this do that.

Are anti bailiff posters who don't know any better.

And refuse to believe that bailiffs can be decent.

If spoken to and explained to In the correct manner.

 

If I walked down the street and as passing you by I swore at you. You would swear back

 

If I walked passed you and said good morning or good afternoon you'd reply in the same friendly manner.

 

Stranger or friend.

 

Mutual respect!

[Talk sense]

Thanks Talksense, yours is a valuable perspective to have so hope you don't mind me asking a few questions?

 

I have a family member who has looked up some information (and is helping me write the suggested letter and forum posts!! ) but I know you're suggesting to speak directly to the balliffs. Anyway he's just found Newlyn PLC's own code of practice regarding vunerable people which it says include those with: serious illness, mental impairment, physical disabilities and severe financial difficulties. He says, according to the information,

 

'where a debtor falls into a vunerable persons category, recovery action will be referred back to the billing authority where the criteria has been found to have been met'.

 

So wouldn't Newlyns possibly have to consider this in relation to my case (vunerable household?) as this is what I would also be explaining regarding my situation if I was to speak to them?

 

Also maybe you could help me regarding fees and the new structure? I actually owe £90.60 on my original bill but the Balliff letter says I owe £458.10, which would come to £367.50. As of yesterday I know about a £75 contact letter and the £235 for Control of Goods letter but NO Balliff has been into my house. So if I 'owed' them £310 - what might the other £57.40 be for?? And can they keep charging loads more on top?

 

I find it so demoralising and stressful to tell you the truth!

 

but thanks

 

I would be shocked if the fees were incorrect.

That's a risk bailiff companies will not take or be able to take under the new regs.

If people had advised you to contact the bailiff office on receipt of your compliance letter of £75.

Instead of warning you off bailiffs etc

Your bill would have been around £160 and in an affordable arrangement.

[brassnecked]

If the account is taken back on the grounds of Vulnerability, doesn't the £75 stand, but the £235 is removed, thus leaving the bailiff with nothing for the call?

[DragonFly1967]

Give the EO in charge a call.

 

The EO has normally had some life experience and understands not everyone can pay.

 

In my experience.

You will always get a better deal of repayment through the EO/bailiff than anybody else. And it's them who can offer you piece of mind and let you get sleep at night.

 

I don't even feel, been or being vulnerable has anything to do with bailiffs and collection.

As far as I am concerned not having money and having bailiffs knock at your door makes you vulnerable.

 

Seriously deal with the bailiff.

 

I would be shocked if the fees were incorrect.

 

I wouldn't

 

If people had advised you to contact the bailiff office on receipt of your compliance letter of £75.

Instead of warning you off bailiffs etc

Your bill would have been around £160 and in an affordable arrangement.

 

EDIT

 

I think it's fairly safe to say that we can all agree that LadyDay is in a Vulnerable household due to personal circumstances which are way beyond her control. One cannot dictate when you get ill, and yet, here you are with your "I'm great, all bailiffs are wonderful" spiel (again) advising her to deal with the bailiffs.

 

If LadyDay can prove that she's vulnerable, and given what's been posted in this thread, and with backup from her Social Worker, I'd be very surprised if she couldn't. The bailiffs have absolutely no power to enforce, LadyDay would not have to deal with them at all, and she could instead pay the council.

 

If the debt is taken back by the council, the bill will still be around £160, and the council will, I'm sure, given the circumstances, allow time to pay that. And Newlyn's can kiss bye bye to the extra £235.

 

 

Fight your corner LadyDay, as hard as you can. You've got absolutely nothing to loose. As I hate bailiffs said...

 

As you fall into vulnerable household bailiff action is not allowed

 

Deal with council

 

There is no right of entry for bailiffs

No locksmith

No arrest

Bailiff action must stop as a vulnerable household

Edited July 12, 2014 by caro

[Peterbard]

 

All Companies are the same.

Debt management companies for instance.

Are they really so great??

No, but they help you out of the situation your in, but do they?

They take a %.

They don't reduce the bill or get costs removed, they only add to the costs.

It's only there ability to negotiate, by information given to them by the debtor, which keeps them in business.

They don't do it for free. And definitely not for the love of the debtor.

 

!

 

Anybody any idea what he is on about here ?

 

Perhaps needs introducing to stepchange or payplan or one of the other free providers, which certainly do all these things and charge nothing.

 

sorry I wasn't going to comment on this posters input again, but this struck me as overly incorrect even for him.

[Talk sense]

Anybody any idea what he is on about here ?

 

Perhaps needs introducing to stepchange or payplan or one of the other free providers, which certainly do all these things and charge nothing.

 

sorry I wasn't going to comment on this posters input again, but this struck me as overly incorrect even for him.

 

I don't need any introduction to anything.

So this isn't about vulnerability?? I get it!!

Sorry I was miles away.

 

It's about not paying the fees!

 

I didn't say people don't do it for free????

 

This lady was worried because she thinks she has a case for being in a vulnerable state.

The previous post commented that she wasn't vulnerable!

Therefore the fees remain anyway.

 

People like you anti bailiff anti authority give other decent living people a bad rep.

[DragonFly1967]

I don't need any introduction to anything.

 

So you know all about Stepchange et al then, and know that they don't charge a fee or a percentage, yet conveniently "forgot" to mention it in your post that says that they all charge a fee or take a percentage. OK, so long as we're clear.

 

So this isn't about vulnerability?? I get it!!

 

No, I really don't think that you do, not for a nanosecond. Of course it's about vulnerability. If LadyDay lives in a vulnerable household, then providing that the council can be convinced of that, the bailiffs have no rights.

 

Sorry I was miles away.

 

Sorry, wishful thinking on my part.

 

It's about not paying the fees!

 

Bailiff fees that shouldn't be being added on because the lady is vulnerable. Yes, you're actually correct for once.

 

I didn't say people don't do it for free????

 

True, you didn't, but you implied that anyone that does do it, takes a cut of what you pay, which isn't true is it?

 

This lady was worried because she thinks she has a case for being in a vulnerable state.

The previous post commented that she wasn't vulnerable!

 

No, the council won't accept, yet, that she's vulnerable. There's a big difference. If LadyDay, with the help of her Doctor and Social Worker can prove to the council that she is, the debt will be taken back from Newlyn's

 

Therefore the fees remain anyway.

 

At the moment.

 

People like you anti bailiff anti authority give other decent living people a bad rep.

 

I'm not anti bailiff or anti authority, and you don't need anyone else's help with getting a bad reputation, you're doing just great on your own. Keep up the good work.

[Talk sense]

I don't need any introduction to anything.

So this isn't about vulnerability?? I get it!!

Sorry I was miles away.

 

It's about not paying the fees!

 

I didn't say people don't do it for free????

 

This lady was worried because she thinks she has a case for being in a vulnerable state.

The previous post commented that she wasn't vulnerable!

Therefore the fees remain anyway.

 

People like you anti bailiff anti authority give other decent living people a bad rep.

 

A disease with no cure, lol nice.

Personal again. Get a grip man.

 

Your advice is don't deal with the bailiffs, don't let them in.

Ok

So everybody follows your advice, fine.

 

Then government take further steps to recuperate the lost revenue.

 

So what about if debtors didn't have to let bailiffs in??

What if the liable order or further regs granted legal forceful entry with the use of locksmiths and police officers like already, with regard to other bills and debts.

 

What's your answer to that scenario??

 

You honestly think that's not a million miles away already.

And people like you bring that date closer.

Edited July 12, 2014 by caro

[caro]

Okay folks. I know that this is an emotive subject, but let's try not to get too heated.

[Talk sense]

So you know all about Stepchange et al then, and know that they don't charge a fee or a percentage, yet conveniently "forgot" to mention it in your post that says that they all charge a fee or take a percentage. OK, so long as we're clear.

 

 

 

No, I really don't think that you do, not for a nanosecond. Of course it's about vulnerability. If LadyDay lives in a vulnerable household, then providing that the council can be convinced of that, the bailiffs have no rights.

 

 

 

Sorry, wishful thinking on my part.

 

 

 

Bailiff fees that shouldn't be being added on because the lady is vulnerable. Yes, you're actually correct for once.

 

 

 

True, you didn't, but you implied that anyone that does do it, takes a cut of what you pay, which isn't true is it?

 

 

 

No, the council won't accept, yet, that she's vulnerable. There's a big difference. If LadyDay, with the help of her Doctor and Social Worker can prove to the council that she is, the debt will be taken back from Newlyn's

 

 

 

At the moment.

 

 

 

I'm not anti bailiff or anti authority, and you don't need anyone else's help with getting a bad reputation, you're doing just great on your own. Keep up the good work.

 

Who funds stepchange???

 

Enlighten this person.

Lol a nonsense. Look at the bigger picture.

 

 

The lady speaks of being vulnerable around 2011 not 14.

 

Where were all these helpers then?

 

My concern was with the initial Cnl bill, as when the fees where applied the lady was no longer classed as vulnerable under new legislation.

[DragonFly1967]

A disease with no cure, lol nice.

Personal again. Get a grip man.

 

Your advice is don't deal with the bailiffs, don't let them in.

 

My advice would be don't deal with the bailiffs if you don't have to, yes. And most certainly don't let them in! As you and your ilk have got no more right of access than the postman.

 

Ok

So everybody follows your advice, fine.

 

Then government take further steps to recuperate the lost revenue.

 

If they do, they do. But I can't see it happening any time soon.

 

So what about if debtors didn't have to let bailiffs in??

 

Didn't have to? Future tense? They don't have to let them now, never mind not having to let them in at some point in the future.

 

What if the liable order or further regs granted legal forceful entry with the use of locksmiths and police officers like already, with regard to other bills and debts.

 

What's your answer to that scenario??

 

Well, as we all already know, the police will only attend to prevent a breach of the peace, so please don't be trying to pull the wool with that old chestnut. As for Liability Orders or warrants that grant forced entry, with or without locksmiths, they're already available if you can convince a magistrate to give you one. Jolly good luck with that.

 

You honestly think that's not a million miles away already.

 

Not a million miles away, no. More like 10 million, with the exception of see above.

 

And people like you bring that date closer, fool

 

What was that you were saying? Oh yes...

 

Personal again. Get a grip man.

[Talk sense]

Okay folks. I know that this is an emotive subject, but let's try not to get too heated.

 

This guy on here can't have a proper discussion without sticking to the facts and not becoming personal.

 

He hates bailiffs and I am a bailiff.

So he automatically slates me with.

He's certainly a character

 

I've tried to offer a bailiff perspective a view an opinion.

He continues to call me a disease. Lol

 

Maybe this is why there's a need for bailiffs because of people with a serious attitude like him