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    • Congratulations. I have a very similar case open against EVRi whereby I sold a watch on eBay and it never arrived. They are claiming that my contract is with Packlink, much as they did in your case. I have read this entire thread and while the legal language and specifics are a little daunting in all honesty, It's very pleasing to see that you were successful with your claim.  Thank you also for posting your WS and bundle which, if my mediation is unsuccessful, will become very useful for me.
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    • Yes in hindsight that would have been the best course of action but due to Mercedes taking 4 weeks with misdiagnosis (which were initially classed as wear and tear - battery & fuses) and then correctly identify the problem we had no choice but to go ahead and agree to works being done.   
    • SERVICE BY EMAIL Rules 6.3(1)(d) and 6.20(1)(d) of the Civil Procedural Rules (“CPR”) allow service by email of claim forms and other documents; these Rules are supplemented by Practice Direction (“PD”) 6A. In accordance with PD 6A.4, in order for service by email to be valid, the recipient party must have previously indicated in writing to the party serving that they are willing to accept service by electronic means and provided a fax number, email address or other electronic identification to which it must be sent. The PD also requires the sender to ask if there are any restrictions on the size of documents that can be received by email.   .
    • NO EMAIL. Not only for the reasons outlined above. CPR Rules state that PAPLOC's can't be served by email unless you give them express consent to this (just giving them your email address is *not* express consent), meaning that they have to be served by post. Either way, a court claim can't arrive by email either. The courts will send that by post. They'll file it to your old address and you'll have no idea until a couple months later when all of a sudden a CCJ is on your credit file because they've obtained what we call a backdoor CCJ. In easier terms, stick to proper post for legal/contractual disputes.   In this case, ignore entirely. That is more useful for more "normal" private parking invoices.   
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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Problems with bathroom fitter

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Just looking to gain some advice from you knowledgeable people.


We got a bathroom fitter around to give us a quote to strip and install a new bathroom. This is what we asked for:


Strip out old bathroom

Plaster walls and ceiling

Lay a granite floor

Install new sink and toilet

Build and install a new bath/shower

Install downlights


This is the bath/shower unit we purchased. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200881630500


We showed this to the bathroom fitter and also gave him a copy of the instruction manual when he came to give us a quote. He looked through and saw that it required 2 x 13amp plug sockets and he said he would include this in the quote. He said he had built similar units in the past, so that made us sway towards booking him.


This is the quote he sent through to us:


Further to my recent visit I have pleasure in quoting as follows for the fitting of your bathroom.


You will strip out and de-tile the walls of the bathroom.

To fit all new plumbing and wastes to the required positions.

To make good the holes in the floor with new floorboards, and overboard the floor with 9mm plywood.

We will plaster the walls and the ceiling.

We will then allow a few days for the plaster to dry and for you to decorate.

To assemble and fit the new bath and connect to the services.

To tile the floor.

To fit a towel rail and connect to the heating system.

To fit WC and vanity unit and connect to the services.

To fit downlighters in the ceiling and connect to the lighting circuit.

All the Equipment and tiles to be supplied by yourselves as the waste to be cleared from site.


Price £xxxx


Yours faithfully

We agreed the quote and on Monday 23rd July he came round with his team and cleared the bathroom. On the same afternoon the plasterers arrived and plastered the walls and ceiling.


Due to the time it took for the plaster to dry and for us to mist coat and paint it, he then came back with his team on Thursday 3rd July.


Thursday morning the arrived and laid the granite floor, cut the holes in the ceiling for the new lights, installed the sink and toilet and began to build the bath/shower unit.


At about 1715hrs he said that they had sent the wrong screws to construct the very first part of the unit. We said to him that we would pop upto B&Q and get same screws and he said "I wouldnt bother now, were finished for the day. "We'll be back on Monday. As those screws were missing, we'll probably have more problems and may have to charge you extra days"


Before he left, he said that the toilet was leaking and he had to put paper towels down underneath. Said this was a quick fix and would sort it on Monday. He also said he mis calculated one of the ceiling lights and made a hole in the wrong place. He said he would also sort this on Monday.


He also hadnt tiled around this sink, when we mentioned this he said he hadnt brought any of the stuff with him to do this and would do it Monday.


After he left we checked the bathroom and not only was the toilet leaking, when you flushed it, it continued to flush until you took the top of and re-adjusted the stop !!!!.


Anyway, went to B&Q and got the screws and managed to build the part he was having problems with. Infact I didnt stop there, I built the entire unit over the course of two days and had the father in law round to help plumb it in. The FIL also sorted out the issue of the non stop flushing toilet.


The only thing we couldnt do properly was the waste - the way the fitter had put the waste pipe was too high, at too great an angle and would need some of the granite tiles taking for it all to be adjusted.


Fast forward to this morning - fitter turns up and charged an extra £55 for coming out to finish the work. Unfortunately im away for work, left this morning so wasnt able to assist. The missus told him we had been quoted for the bathroom to be fitted - not for a certain amount off days work. Its luckily I actually built the bath and plumbed it in, otherwise he would have charged at least another full days labour.


Im pretty shocked and quite cross by this!There was no way all this work would have been completed in a day. Cant believe he is charging extra on top of what he already quoted.


Ive asked the missus to email him asking for a full breakdown of the quote, ie what each part cost and what the £55 was for this morning.


Ive got a few solutions in mind, however just wondered if anyone knew where we stood.

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Heres a few pictures of the finished work.


Wall joining floor






Tiles around sink






Repair to the hole he cut in the wrong place on the new plastered/painted ceiling




Repair to original light fitting




He also forgot to cut down and put the bathroom door back.


Weve sent him an email with the list of defects and also asked for a breakdown in cost of the original quote. Just waiting to hear back.

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Hi There,

Whilst I can't help you out with the "legal side" of things; I just wanted to say I personally would not be happy with the level of finishing & the "mistakes" made such as the light fitting, tiling to the sink etc...


To me you have asked a "professional" to give you a full quote on works required & a price for them. For your money you should get as equally professional job completed.


I'm sure other CAG members will be popping by to help you soon.


Hope you get the result you want..

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every single minute of it!!

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Hi,hope you haven't paid the full balance on his fitting fee.As a fitter myself and been in the trade 25 years ,the finish looks very amateur,even reading the quote,not much detail in that.make a remedial list of everything you want putting right,at his expense,and don't pay anymore money to him as he looks like a cowboy and with ill fitted bathrooms the real problems don't start showing for a while.good luck

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Very very poor "workmanship"


Have you paid him ? How much ?


Where has he positioned the 2 power sockets ?


Are they on an RCD protected circuit ?

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Hi,hope you haven't paid the full balance on his fitting fee.As a fitter myself and been in the trade 25 years ,the finish looks very amateur,even reading the quote,not much detail in that.make a remedial list of everything you want putting right,at his expense,and don't pay anymore money to him as he looks like a cowboy and with ill fitted bathrooms the real problems don't start showing for a while.good luck


I'm with you "brother" but add on 10 years extra "Pain and Suffering" LOL

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Thanks RainbowTears.


Im absolutely shocked by the end result. The missus has had to take photos and send them to me as im currently away from home due to work.


I would be equally shocked & upset by the level of work, thats more akin to be "bodge it & leg it" rather than professional!!


Out of interest, how much was you quoted for the works you required to be done?


Did the price quoted, include; whether all works done until completion or was it say 3 days of work?


Have you settled the final bills or is there any £ outstanding?


As I sure hope you haven't settled up as yet, I wouldn't until the works you were quoted on are all completed & finished to a level you are happy with!!

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every single minute of it!!

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Thanks for all your replies. The quote was to install the bathroom - not for x amount of days or hours of work. What I posted in the first post is the exact quote.However he has sent us a breakdown where he has put things into hours.


They came back on Tuesday and re plastered the holes in the ceiling, re-hung the door and also did a fix on the sink tiles - although there still not looking fantastic.


He sent through a break down of the quote. He said he had quoted 4 hours to build and fit the bath, however he's saying it took him 5 hours. This is laughable in itself because the very most he would have spent is 2 hours getting everthing out of the boxes! He didnt start it until at least 1530hrs and he left at 1730!


When he came back he failed to fill in the holes where the wall joins the floor. We asked him again about this and got this reply today.


Hi , I am now not prepared to come back at all for the following reasons.


When you asked for a quote you said you would take out all the equipment and tiles and get the walls ready for plastering.You did not clean the walls ready for plastering, I had no money in my quote to do this. But we did clean the walls and it took two people with steamers two hours each. AND I DID NOT COMPLAIN.


We had a delay of one and a half hours due to the wrong screws being in the pack which you purchased and is your responsibility. AND I DID NOT COMPLAIN.


Your father glued the wrong fitting on the waste pipe, he used a swept bend instead of a knuckle bend which meant we had to take up two tiles and cut up the floor to reach the pipe and put it right and then reinstate the floor and tiles. This took one hour AND I DID NOT COMPLAIN.


Attached my quotation which makes not mention of cleaning walls. So far we are down six and a half hours and I can only be pushed so far I offered to come back and seal the edges but now that offer is

withdrawn. Kind Regards

As noted in the original quote, we offered to take the tiles off the wall.Certainly never offered to clean the walls - not being a builder I didnt even know the walls needed cleaning! This was never ever mentioned, not even when he came back to start work, so I can only assume he is using this as an excuse!


Regarding the waste pipe, he had placed it in the wrong place, at the wrong height and at the wrong angle (90 degress). To get the bath waste away we had to do a temp fix, knowing the only correct way for it to be done would be for the builder to come back and remove two of the laid tiles, and change the 90 degree pipe to a 45 degree pipe. I think he is frustrated because he would more then likely have bodged the waste and instead we made sure it had to be done correctly.


I just find it amazing that he quoted to install the bathroom, however he then charged extra even though he didnt have to carry out on the largest jobs! Weve got a plasterer in at the moment doing our landing, so going to pay him to fix the gap between the wall and the floor and add this to our claim against the builder. I think we have been fair in offering him plenty of opportunies to get it sorted.


Just working on a LBA now.

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