Travel woes - heat exhaustion

[veganite]

hello,

In a few weeks I will have to travel constantly for about 7 - 8 days. This is 3 days by train 4 days by bus.

Everything is usually fine whilst I travel through Russia by train and the Baltics, Poland and Germany by bus.

I usually experience problems within Netherlands / France / UK - when air conditioning does not work in the bus. In 2010, I was unconscious because the air conditioning didn't work on a bus and my body could not cope with the heat.

 

I don't want heat stroke again and certainly don't want to be unconscious again since it took me ages to recover as I felt ill for weeks after this.

 

I shall travel in August. My question is: If I am on a bus and the air conditioning is not working and it is a high temperature, I know I have to leave the bus for the sake of my health. Is the bus company then responsible for my financial losses such as replacement bus ticket for the rest of my journey?

 

The first 2 times without air conditioning on bus, I sent complaint letter to National Express / Eurolines who then gave me % off voucher for my next travel. The third time it happened when I was unconscious, National Express didn't answer my complaint.

I then changed companies to Ecolines since I found they run a bus directly to UK over 2 days (constant travel). So, if I find myself in a position on Ecolines direct bus with extreme heat and no air conditioning, can I get off the bus and would Ecolines then be responsible for giving me a free ticket to continue my journey on a bus with air conditioning?

 

I realise this may sound petty but my body can not cope with heat for a long period of time and I'd like to know my rights if this happened again, because really I am not looking forward to this travel and I do not want to experience heat stroke or heat exhaustion / unconscious again.

 

 

Thanks!

 

ps.... No, I can't fly because of fear

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Have you looked into travelling by train all the way or travelling at a cooler time of year? This doesn't sound worth it.

 

Also, several airlines run fear of flying courses; you could check with your nearest airport.

 

HB

Edited July 6, 2014 by honeybee13

[firstclassx]

Nobody is forcing you to use these coaches!

 

I would suggest that if the problems really are as bad as you state, that you find an alternative mode of transport.

 

As far as I can tell, guaranteeing provision of air conditioning is not part of any contract between you and the companies when you purchase a ticket, so technically they don't even have to offer you anything for "goodwill".

 

If you continue to take risks with your health, presumably to save having to pay more money for other transport methods, then surely you can only really blame one person?

 

Your only rights you have, as I see it, is that when you purchase a ticket, the coach company will take you from your origin to your destination, on the booked service, or if you have a flexible ticket, on whatever services your ticket is valid on. The manner in which they do that, and any facilities provided is pretty much up to them. If you choose to alight early because you feel unwell, I would almost certainly say you are going to be solely liable to purchase another ticket.

 

It is, after all, a medical issue/problem with you, that you become so unwell whilst travelling. I take it that the other coach load of passengers are not becoming unconscious en-route!

[veganite]

Hello there.

 

Have you looked into travelling by train all the way or travelling at a cooler time of year? This doesn't sound worth it.

 

Also, several airlines run fear of flying courses; you could check with your nearest airport.

 

HB

its impossible to travel by train all the way, no trains in baltic.

i could never fly, even if it were a fear of flying course, nothing would make me go on the aeroplane.

 

 

 

Nobody is forcing you to use these coaches!

yes i know!

I would suggest that if the problems really are as bad as you state, that you find an alternative mode of transport.

possibly, just wanted to know what rights i have if any

As far as I can tell, guaranteeing provision of air conditioning is not part of any contract between you and the companies when you purchase a ticket, so technically they don't even have to offer you anything for "goodwill".

The coach companies advertise that their coaches have air conditioning - since it is advertised then I thought it would have been part of the contract. For example, they advertise free wifi but do not guarantee it, they advertise air conditioning yet have no clause not to guarantee it

 

If you continue to take risks with your health, presumably to save having to pay more money for other transport methods, then surely you can only really blame one person?

I am not sure how I am taking risks to my health since I was aware my body could not cope with heat but I was not aware that I would become unconscious. Asking for advice here shows I am not taking risks as I intend to get off coach if this happens again.

Your presumption is wrong, it is a lot cheaper to fly that it is to travel internationally by coach.

 

Your only rights you have, as I see it, is that when you purchase a ticket, the coach company will take you from your origin to your destination, on the booked service, or if you have a flexible ticket, on whatever services your ticket is valid on. The manner in which they do that, and any facilities provided is pretty much up to them. If you choose to alight early because you feel unwell, I would almost certainly say you are going to be solely liable to purchase another ticket.

I thought that they had a duty of care to their passengers and if the heat inside the coach becomes unbearable due to air conditioning not working then ideally they would be responsible if a passenger decided that they need to exit the coach in order not to take health risks?

 

It is, after all, a medical issue/problem with you, that you become so unwell whilst travelling.

A lot of people were complaining re lack of air conditioning on the journeys this happened.

 

I take it that the other coach load of passengers are not becoming unconscious en-route!

Was just myself and happened on one occasion only, which is why I am wondering what my rights are if this were to happen again.

 

If a coach company advertises air conditioning and wifi, and has a clause to say that wifi may not work in some areas and may not be available on some destinations, that implies that their air conditioning will always work since they do not state that the air conditioning may or may not work on some destinations etc as they stipulate with their wifi.

So, as air conditioning is advertised and it does not work, then, if the heat is unbearable again, surely they are responsible for providing me with free ticket for another bus in their company?

 

Thank you both for your help!

[firstclassx]

If a coach company advertises air conditioning and wifi, and has a clause to say that wifi may not work in some areas and may not be available on some destinations, that implies that their air conditioning will always work since they do not state that the air conditioning may or may not work on some destinations etc as they stipulate with their wifi.

So, as air conditioning is advertised and it does not work, then, if the heat is unbearable again, surely they are responsible for providing me with free ticket for another bus in their company?

 

Thank you both for your help!

 

That logic is just completely flawed.

 

Nothing can or will always work 100% of the time.

 

Provision of air conditioning is NOT part of the contract you enter into when you buy a ticket.

 

The Conditions of Carriage for Eurolines states:

 

 

4.11 Joining and leaving a service: You may not board or leave any service except at the starting or finishing point of your journey,

save for any short meal or refreshment break permitted in Condition 4.10 above.

 

4.12 Breaks in your journey: You may not break any journey permitted by your ticket except where there is serious delay. If after you

commence a journey, you are prevented from travelling further by reason of illness, we may at our sole discretion permit you to

break your journey, and to resume your journey on the next service which has available seats after you become fit to travel again

 

Again their liability is simply to get you to your destination, providing you hold a valid ticket.

 

5.1 Our obligation to carry you: It is our obligation to carry you and your permitted luggage on the journeys permitted by your ticket,

on and subject to these General Conditions of Carriage and any Special Conditions. We will make reasonable efforts to carry you

with the minimum discomfort and inconvenience. For busy services, at times of high demand, or when a coach in our normal fleet

is not available, we hire replacement, standby, additional or duplicate coaches from third parties. These coaches may not bear

our livery, but they will have a Eurolines identifier in the window to identify them. These coaches also may not be to the same

standard of comfort or leg-room or have the same facilities as our normal fleet.

 

Unfortunately, "reasonable efforts" can simply mean trying to fix the air con, or trying to find a vehicle that that offers it, but if they can't, there's nothing you can do about it.

[Deadyankee]

I know this probably won't help but it's safer to fly than the coach you use, and the air con is guaranteed to be working. If you really can't do if, you have to put up with the fact you need to use buses, with or without air con, you take your chance.

[veganite]

That logic is just completely flawed.

 

Nothing can or will always work 100% of the time.

 

Provision of air conditioning is NOT part of the contract you enter into when you buy a ticket.

Whilst it may not be part of the contract, the coach company has a duty of care to that of its passengers. If the coach is badly maintained and air conditioning does not work, then, in sweltering hot weather the duty of care is broken.

 

The Conditions of Carriage for Eurolines states:

I do not use Eurolines since they have failed 3 times concerning this. On one occasion, the bus driver actually said that his manager will not fix the air con and he encouraged people to complain about this presumably in the hope that his bus would have air con.

 

 

Again their liability is simply to get you to your destination, providing you hold a valid ticket.

They have a duty of care! Their duty of care includes so much more than simply getting me to my destination.

 

Unfortunately, "reasonable efforts" can simply mean trying to fix the air con, or trying to find a vehicle that that offers it, but if they can't, there's nothing you can do about it.

Well, I will get off the bus if I feel ill in any way since I have already experienced heat stroke on a bus without air con. Bus companies have a duty of care to its passengers. For example, whilst the bus company advertises free wifi, if this is not available then it does not have any detrimental effect on the care of the passengers. However, in the case of air conditioning on a sweltering hot day on a bus travelling say 30 hours with 60 or so people inside, then the condition is uncomfortable and in some cases unbearable and in my opinion the duty of care has been broken since the bus company has no regard to that of its passengers since they find it acceptable to continue their service and place their passengers under risk of heat stroke / heat exhaustion - which can ultimately lead to death!

 

To operate a bus service for passengers travelling 30+ hours in sweltering hot unbearable conditions with a risk to the passengers health (heat stroke) is in my opinion negligent of said bus company and obviously putting the health and even lives of passengers at risk. I remember some security company was taken to court for not having air conditioning which affected the health of the prisoner. I am not a prisoner, I am a fee paying customer and as a fee paying customer I would expect a higher standard placed on the emphasis of the coach companies duty of care whilst I travel in their coach.

 

Thanks for your help.. I can understand what you are saying, yet my opinion is that the duty includes that of a comfortable temperature inside a bus of say 60 people travelling for 30 hours.

Hopefully the weather / temperature will be a cooler when I travel or the air con is working. Just wanted to know what my rights are if I have to leave the bus for the sake of my health and whether the carrier would be responsible for giving me a replacement ticket to continue my journey on another bus.

[veganite]

I know this probably won't help but it's safer to fly than the coach you use, and the air con is guaranteed to be working. If you really can't do if, you have to put up with the fact you need to use buses, with or without air con, you take your chance.

thanks, but I could never fly. I know it would be a lot cheaper, easier and a lot quicker, but I can not do this.

 

I dont have a fear of flying as such, more of a fear of being up there and not flying.. just falling..

[honeybee13]

thanks, but I could never fly. I know it would be a lot cheaper, easier and a lot quicker, but I can not do this.

 

I dont have a fear of flying as such, more of a fear of being up there and not flying.. just falling..

 

This is exactly what a fear of flying course addresses. You're not the only one, or they wouldn't be running them successfully.

 

Another comment on duty of care etc, and I may or may not be right. When you're out of the UK, I wonder if you would come under UK rules.

 

HB

[rambo]

Try driving a bus without aircon!

[stu007]

As you are travelling abroad do you carry the European Health Insurance Card http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/EHIC/Pages/about-the-ehic.aspx and probably have separate health/travel insurance cover.

 

You need to be aware that if you have separate health/travel insurance and haven't informed them of the previous unconscious episode and something did happen and you needed medical treatment then they found out about the previous episode they may class this as a pre existing condition.

[veganite]

hello honeybee... no, i could never ever fly, - many reasons but all due to fear. friends and family have always tried persuading me.

about the duty of care, i assume it would fall under russian law when i am in russia, and EU law when i am in europe.

 

i received email from ecolines (bus company) who have said that if their air conditioning doesn't work on a hot day then I can leave the bus and the stewardess will arrange replacement ticket for me on the next available bus - the day after.

 

 

 

hello stu007. yes i have the EHIC card. i don't have any travel insurance because of the amount of time spent living here. im not sure if my unconsciousness from heat exhaustion is a pre existing condition since it comes from heat and only happened on one occasion a long time ago in non air con bus.

temperature here at the moment is +32c with a storm on its way... in winter it can get -30c but luckily im out of here before then!

 

anyway - bus company has said they will allow me to travel on next bus if their air con doesn't work but my experience of ecolines is far better than eurolines and they have always had high standards. just wanted to check what my rights were if it happened again.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I guess you would need to find out about duty of care legislation in the countries you will travel through if you're worried. Does it exist in Russia, do you know?

 

HB

[veganite]

hi, i am not so worried about the train travel in russia, it is just the bus without the aircon in EU.

 

Russian law = corrupt... usually the person with the most amount of money wins in a legal case. if someone is sick & vulnerable and not helped, penalty for not helping is upto 12 months in the gulag (forced labor camp) or few months in prison.

[Batfink]

Maybe something like a cooling vest would help?

[veganite]

Thanks for that! Cooling vest looks good, I think I will buy one of them for next year when I am here. But won't help when I am travelling as only lasts for upto 2 hours.

[think about it]

Please do consider attending a fear of flying course. I did so a few years back and it really did help.

 

http://www.flyingwithoutfear.co.uk/

http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/special-assistance/flying-with-confidence?utm_source=TwitterButton&utm_medium=UK&utm_campaign=FearOfFlying

http://fearlessflyer.easyjet.com/

 

and loads of others, it'll give you back weeks of your life spent on the train / coach / bus if you make the journey a few times.

 

(and as I found out, the aircraft has more than one air conditioning system...)

[veganite]

thanks.. but, this is my only fear. i am living outside UK at the moment, virtually in the middle of nowhere. wildlife here is spectacular with wild bears, moose, boars, wolves, snakes. even an insect could potentially kill me from encephalitis. i guess that many people would not live in such a place through their fear. nearly everyone has at least one fear and mine is flying (for many reasons).

 

thank you for the links. i did have a look, but after visiting the first link you gave me - flyingwithoutfear.co.uk

that website shows a picture of an airbus aircraft which is shown at an angle of about 45 degrees with one wing low down and the other wing high up. not such a good picture to show people who are fearful of flying