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    • Minor developments: a) Notification received that case has been referred to County Court at Chesterfield and we've to await the Judge's directions re allocation etc.  b) The letter I sent on 20th August to the agent (Lambert Smith Hampton) that manages the Berkeley Precinct and has its address on the board at the entrance, has been returned by the Royal Mail National Returns Centre, with a sticker saying the "addressee has gone away"!! Don't they have an obligation to change the signage if they move, and why wouldn't such a large company have their mail re-directed? The letter requested assistance in obtaining a copy of the contract between VCS and the landowner. I'm a bit mystified, but have found an additional address, so I could resend the letter and give it another try. 
    • urm.. FmoTl twaddle me thinks followed here
    • 123 Abc efg   22/09/2019 Dear Sir,   Re:  v xyz. Case No: 123456   CPR 31.14 Request   On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the county court of Salford.      I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest and counter claim all of your claim.   Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:     1: The agreement/overdraft Facility Confirmation and Terms and Conditions from that date. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.   Failure to prove the above will render any claim unenforceable pursuant to section127 and 61b(3) CCA1974   2: The Demand/Termination Notice (Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974   3: Notices of Sums in Arrears under running account credit CCA2006 sec 86C   4. Notice of Assignment *   You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience.. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.   Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.   In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.   If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.     Yours faithfully   Xyz. is this ok to send. and recorded delivery.
    • lots of fixed sum penalty fees?    
    • I have received statments back to 2008 from them, Its a big file, with lots of the original papaerwork, a lot of this I have not seen for a long time and im sure this wasnt in the previous SAR.  There is some information that has been erased, it seems to be the Witness or agents/sales persons name!    
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Orange upgrade - taken 2 direct debits and won't pay back

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My OH got an upgrade with Orange a few years ago (Mar 2008 to be exact)


Orange had been taking DD for both old and new contracts since March 2008 until June 2013)


My OH got a 'gesture of goodwill' refund from Orange for the last 6 months overpayments (~£200)


At the time I thought this was a refund of all overpayments, however now it's come to light this was only the tip of the iceberg! From trawling through statements the actual overpayment was just over £2k.


Yes, I know she should have checked statements regularly, but excusing that, it does not give Orange the right to keep the money...surely?


Apparently they only offered 3 months payments initially but upped this to 6 months and wouldn't go beyond this.


Should I contact Orange again and offer them the chance to repay the rest of the money?


Or should I go straight to the regulator? (is that Ofcom in this instance?)


Or small claims?




(again I know she should have checked her statements!)

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Need some more information.

You said there was an upgrade, but then you mention that there was two separate accounts,

which doesn't sound right.


There are two scenarios that spring to mind, so could be one of these.


If someone on Orange upgrades

then they keep the same account, same mobile number, same payment details, etc.


All that happens is that a new phone is provided (i.e. the 'upgraded' phone)

in exchange for your OH agreed to be tied in to extended contract length.

Therefore, the original direct debit continues as before

(with perhaps a different monthly charge depending on the tariff that was agreed when upgrading).

There is no separate account set up and no separate direct debit.


Alternatively, i'm speculating here, but

sometimes customers go to an independent mobile dealership and ask to upgrade,

but for very conniving reasons that dealer sets up a new account as a new customer.

The customer then ends up with a new mobile number, a new account, new direct debit, etc.


it's not an upgrade but is actually a new connection.

The existing contract still remains until the customer cancels it,

or if it never gets cancelled then it keeps going.


So i can understand better,

can you clarify if your OH kept her mobile number when she upgraded?

Or was she given a new number?

Did she do the upgrade with Orange directly (either over the phone or in an Orange store)

or through a dealsership (Carphone Warehouse, Phones4U, etc.)?

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if it was via a direct debit


then use the DD guarantee phone your bank.


orange MUST be sending requests

oneway or another each month for the monies


if they did not

that breaks the DD guarantee



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Before doing a DD indemnity claim with the bank, it might just be worth considering the points i've raised, as if it is a genuine reason they have been taking the money (i.e. a new account was taken out in parallel to the existing account which was never closed) then the outcome would only be a trashed credit file. I'm sure that bank would comply if asked to do an indemnity, but it wouldn't really be addressing the reason why this has happened and whether this was a mistake by Orange, another company, or OH, etc.

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in reply to jack:


The upgrade was carried out by carphone warehouse.


I'm pretty sure that her number was changed.


So as you suggest maybe this was processed as a 'new' connection and they didn't tell Orange to stop the previous contract.


Is the onus on carphone warehouse to tell Orange? Or should the customer?


I'm wondering if the complaint should really be directed at CW instead now...


p.s. I should add that the contract in question was stopped a few months ago

Edited by smnberryman

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