Marlin/Shoosmiths Summary Cause - old LloydsTsb loan

[Tesis]

Hi,

Sincerely hoping someone can help me.

 

First of all, I'm writing this on behalf of my husband

since the loan taken out was in his name and the action being taken is in his name.

 

Secondly, before I waste peoples time,

I want to make sure I'm posting this in the appropriate section. Finally this action is taking place in Scotland.

 

Briefly,

took a loan out for £25,000 in 2004 for 7 years and

continued to make payments until approx Jan 2011.

 

We had been struggling financially since the banking crisis in 2008

but continued to pay this loan until, for a variety of reasons, we couldn't.

 

I have the customer's copy of the original agreement.

 

It is a Summary Cause Summons sent by a court in Scotland involving the companies of

Marlin EuropeII/ShoosmithsLLP/LLoydsTsb.

 

The sum involved is £3952.66 with expenses.

 

The return day is 10/7/2014 and

 

the calling date is 24/07/2014.

 

I would really like to defend this action and would appreciate any help you can offer.

 

Thanks

[citizenB]

I have amended your thread title to reflect the fact that you are in Scotland and will move you to the Financial Legal Forums. (You need do nothing, this is purely administrative)

 

I will also send out S.O.S messages for those on the team who have knowledge of the Scottish legal system.

 

 

PS. It might not be until later in the day when someone responds.. as most of them have day jobs.

[Tesis]

Thank you. Knew I probably could post it somewhere else more relevant just wasn't sure where. That was the reason I didn't want to bombard with too many details at the moment. Will check back later. Thanks again

[citizenB]

Could you please advise what the basis of your defence will be - so I can pass this information on for you

[Tesis]

I guess this is my main reason for seeking advice.

Can I actually defend it?

Do I have any reasons?

 

This loan came about after an annual meeting with the bank to review our account.

 

We had other loans from different companies and the loan was offered to us

as a means to pay off these smaller loans and give us some extra cash which we used to buy a car.

We had an out of hours meeting because of our work schedules.

 

The loan was discussed in terms of APR but

at no time was the total amount of interest on the loan discussed.

 

Initially it was offered at 6 1/2 % but when that couldn't be arranged it was offered at 10.9 %.

It was discussed in terms of how much we'd need to pay a month and if we could afford the monthly payments,

which at the time we could.

 

£420.64 over 84 months.

 

It wasn't until many years later when I sat down and worked out the total cost of paying

these installments that I realised the total amount payable would be £35,333.76.

 

We were having to pay an extra £10,333.76 as interest.

 

Up until that point I never knew it would be nearly that much.

 

We never complained at the time and continued to pay for 77 months.

A total of £32,389.28.

 

I would like to add that I would have continued to pay the loan until it was finished

and put it down to experience.

 

Ironically, just before our trouble started and because we had been excellent customers,

the bank sent us an offer of another £25,000 loan for us just to sign.

We didn't take them up on it.

 

I have a customer's copy of the credit card agreement for the original loan

which in my foolishness I thought was the original cca but now know it isn't.

 

There is no mention of the amount of interest nor is it dated.

 

So do I have a defence?

 

For me it's the fact that the amount of interest was never declared either orally

or in writing but not sure if that's enough.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Andyorch
Paragraphs added

[Tesis]

I have been routing around the forum and noticed that people have sent off a CPR 31.14 request

for all the documents they are holding.

 

My query here is does that apply in Scotland?

 

If I need to do this it would have to be today to allow them 7 days to respond

before the return date of 10.7.14.

 

Also, I still use this bank.

 

We have two current accounts (with overdrafts) and our mortgage.

 

If we defend this action will it have consequences?

[Tesis]

Hi, again,

 

I'm going to send off a CPR 31.14 to Marlin Europe II.

 

I'm using what appears to be a standard template for such a request.

 

I have substituted a couple of phrases which seems to be more appropriate

- Summary Cause Summons instead of Claim Form and Statement of Claim instead of Particulars of Claim.

 

The Statement of Claim mentions the credit agreement and the statement of account.

 

I have requested these two documents and everything that goes with them.

 

Does this sound okay?

[AndyOrch]

Also separately request a section 78 CCA Tesis.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Tesis]

Have just spoken to a very nice young chap at the clerk's office

who has advised that I don't need to detail my defence at the moment

just my intention to defend.

 

This needs to be done by return date of 10.7.14.

[Tesis]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for response.

 

I'm assuming that's a request for original CCA?

 

Just a wee query, shouldn't they already possess the CCA if they are referring to it in their Statement of Claim?

 

I have an original customer's copy of the agreement.

 

If I'm requesting copies of their evidence wouldn't that would be part of it?

 

Just wondering if I'm getting the hang of this.

 

Thanks

 

Tesis

[AndyOrch]

It is....but as you state your copy is deficient of all the prescribed terms ...probably because its not been executed.

We have 1000s of claims were they refer to an agreement.....but most cant disclose.

 

Making a section 77 request is a legal request which they must comply within 12 days if they cant they cant enforce.

[Tesis]

Ok, that makes sense, I'll send that off too. Thanks

[Tesis]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?173201-why-you-shouldnt-use-section-77-78-CCA-1974-if-you-want-the-signed-agreement

 

Hi Andy,

 

I've held off sending the CCA 78 request and came on here today to find a template letter to send off.

However, I have now read the above and I'm thinking this makes sense.

 

I sent off the CPR31.14 last week and they have until Thursday to respond to that.

My main concern in all of the advice available is, does it apply in Scotland?

Any thoughts on how to proceed would be appreciated.

 

My return date is 10th

I've spoken to court last week and I don't need to give defence as yet,  just my intention to.

I'm going to call the court again, though, just to make sure I've got everything right.

 

I think my main defence is going to be they didn't disclose the full cost of the loan.

The fact that they offered us a new loan for the same amount and with the same terms and we turned it down because of the cost of interest I think shows we wouldn't have taken the original loan (or at least would have thought twice) had we known we were going to be paying over £10,000 interest. We genuinely didn't know.

 

Was feeling quite confident about it all last week but feeling quite anxious now.

But I'm thinking this is probably normal.

 

Just spoken to a woman at the clerk's office, unfortunately not the nice young chap from last week,

and she has reiterated the need to advise of my intent to defend,

which I'm aware I must do in Section B Defender's Response to the Summons.

 

I explained I was waiting for papers to be sent from the company so I could outline my defence more accurately.

 

She said I should just outline that in my defence.

 

Not sure if that's enough, though.

 

Have just read the court papers again and from this advice it would seem

I need to provide by the return day a written note of any proposed defence.

How should I proceed here?

 

I would still like to go down the route of them not disclosing the cost of interest.

 

I have copied and pasted this section from this link

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?173201-why-you-shouldnt-use-section-77-78-CCA-1974-if-you-want-the-signed-agreement

 

and thought about using this as a basic outline to my defence.

 

"There are many reasons why you would need this information and remember at the time you entered into the agreement you probably weren’t aware of your rights as a consumer so you wouldn’t have checked the agreement with a fine tooth comb nor does the law expect you to,

 

the law required the lender to get it right, to put together an agreement as required by the CCA to ensure you were told the true costs of borrowing,

 

how much you would have to repay, when how etc."

 

Return day is Thursday 10th.

 

Can someone please advise me?

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

"I've held off sending the CCA 78 request and came on here today to find a templateicon letter to send off. However, I have now read the above and I'm thinking this makes sense. I sent off the CPR31.14 last week and they have until Thursday to respond to that. My main concern in all of the advice available is, does it apply in Scotland? Any thoughts on how to proceed would be appreciated."

 

Yes it does apply...and is the most valuable tool in your defence..if you had sent it when I advised they would almost be in default now....12 +2 days to comply.

[Tesis]

Ok, point taken, I'll do it now. Thanks.

 

I have used the wording of this template. Is this okay? Only asking because it mentions two sections 77 and 78 also.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387435-CCA-Request-Consumer-Credit-Act-1974

 

Sent it at 3ish, recorded delivery.

[AndyOrch]

Section 77 is for fixed credit ...loans and 78 for revolving ...credit cards.

[Tesis]

Should I have just quoted 77? I've used a template letter that covered both.

[AndyOrch]

No it will be ok its a general request that covers both.

[Tesis]

Thanks, Andy, I really do appreciate the support you've given.

[Tesis]

Hi Andy,

 

I have to complete the summons and return it by Thursday. On Page 6, Section B, Box 3 it offers me a variety of options:

DISPUTE THE CLAIM (or amount due) and attend at court

* I intend to challenge the jurisdiction of the court.

* I intend to challenge the competency of the action.

* I intend to defend the action.

* I wish to dispute the amount due only.

 

* I apply for warrant to serve a third party notice (see page 14).

 

I intend to appear or be represented in court on the calling date.

_____________________________

* I attach a note of my proposed defence/counterclaim.

OR

*I return form 10b (personal injury cases only).

* delete as necessary

 

 

I know this probably sounds ridiculous but I just want to make sure I'm doing this right. I have shown in bold the parts I will be using. It's the proposed defence/counterclaim I am worried about. Page 7 is laid out for my WRITTEN NOTE OF PROPOSED DEFENCE/COUNTERCLAIM and is in three parts.

State which facts in the statement of claim are admitted:

State briefly any facts regarding the circumstances of the claim on which you intend to rely:

State details of counterclaim, if any:

 

As I have said before, I have phoned the clerk's office and explained that I have asked for the papers from the pursuants but not sure how I should word that here or should I add on a letter? Could you please help? Thanks.

[AndyOrch]

Not that Im too familiar with the Scottish system Tesis but yes I would go with your assumption

 

* I intend to defend the action.

* I attach a note of my proposed defence/counter claim.

 

Obviously you dont have a counter claim just a defence so you need to prepare this for submission.

[Tesis]

Thanks for your prompt reply, Andy.

 

Do you know if there's anyone I could perhaps PM who is more familiar with the Scottish system?

 

I guess that's always been my question, do I have a defence?

Is the lack of disclosure about the amount of interest payable on the loan enough?

Does that point refer to their statement in any way?

Do I need to address any other/specific points in their statement of claim?

Do I need to refer to legislation?

Do I need to use the jargon?

 

All I have as way of referral at the moment is my customer's copy of the agreement

which is neither dated, nor states the amount of interest,

nor has any signatures but does have a/c number amount of loan etc.

 

I did take out a smaller loan after this and that customer's copy of the agreement

does state the interest but not sure if it's dated etc

(I remember it has PPI which I have no memory of whatsoever as I never include it on loan!)

 

Can't put my hand on it at the moment and trying to organise a b'day party for 10 children this afternoon!

(Not sure which is most stressful )

 

I will pop in and out of here when chance permits but may be this evening

before I get a proper chance to respond.

[AndyOrch]

You have a defence if a they do not respond to your section 77 request...you are querying the amount of interest and the validity of the agreement you already hold.

 

A defence simply responds to their particulars ...accept admit or refute deny or clarify question.Look at some of the English defences that I have penned for posters...they are applicable to any summons ...so you could use or adapt to suit your needs.

[Tesis]

Using phone for this reply. I have honestly been looking around at other threads/posts. Found out about all sorts but it can get confusing at times. I will post a more accurate response to your reply when I get a moment. Meantime thanks for above, feel more reassured.

[AndyOrch]

Here is a Scottish claim thread....:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?212609-Summary-cause-Summons-Scotland.-MBNA&highlight=incidental+application+for+recovery+of+documents