Hillards v Santander PPI, 5 accounts

[hillards]

This is an odd one from the start. As part of a previous claim we were given details of what we had paid off with a loan and turned up no less than 3 old GE Capital accounts, plus one that had been First National but we had sent GE Capital the settlement.

 

So, SAR sent to GE Capital, not realising it's now Santander. Despite it being the same PO Box address it took them some time to send a very poor batch of documents. They have the agreements for 3 accounts, have returned nothing on the First National one and failed the SAR by not giving any info on a 5th account that was opened later. Yes, we did say 'all accounts' in the SAR. So, letter sent back to Santander to point out where they went wrong.

 

They have, in the cover letter with the SAR, told us that at least two accounts had insurance. The oldest one clearly shows that this was requested and was even signed for on the application form. The next one had the 'account cover' option crossed out, no signature, but their own notes show that insurance was applied - nice of them. The third does not seem to have a transaction sheet to tell us if insurance was applied or not.

 

The 5th account went into default and we know there were lots of charges applied before they passed it to a DCA (CL Finance/H Cohen) and they slapped on I don't know how much extra. We need the SAR to find out just what went on there and get it all reclaimed.

 

Anyway, five FOS questionnaires have been completed and are on their way to them. We have account numbers for all, plus details of what was paid off and when. That should be enough for them to identify them all.

 

Lets see what happens next

[dx100uk]

so they were not a refinance?

 

dx

[hillards]

so they were not a refinance?

 

dx

No, wife's store cards. Apart from the First National one. I can't remember what that was for now. We took out a loan to pay the first 4 off and found the account details and repayment info when we got the SAR. The 5th was a new card she got after paying the others off.

[dx100uk]

ah I see

well if the loan refinanced 4 cards that had ppi

 

they'll be rollover and extra interest in the loan too get back too.

[hillards]

Loan was not with GE/Santander and has already had PPI reclaimed. Doubt we will get much mileage out of trying to claim rollover PPI. As they were store cards the PPI would have been paid on a rolling basis anyway ?

 

Think best we can hope for is standard store card PPI refund, wife seems to have had quite high balances when they were active, notes show increased limits were applied. GE were fined in 2007 for misleading customers etc.

[hillards]

2 letters have arrived so far, each for only one account. They can't have lost the other 3, they were all in the same letter we sent. I would have expected some sort of response to say they were looking at all 5 of the PPI claims, or they were not ?

 

Both letters say that a copy of the complaints procedure is enclosed, but was only found in one envelope, not the other. Great to see such attention to detail in standard letters.

 

They give an 0845 number at the top of the letter and also in the text. They shouldn't really be using 0845 now. The EU Consumer Rights Directive does not appear to apply to financial institutions though At the foot of the letter they state "Calls cost 10p per minute..." but no note about calls from mobile or non-BT networks costing more.

 

They also give an 03 number, except it only says 0330 0369 with (mobile) at the side ? Then, on the complaints letter, they give only 0871 numbers. Can't say I'm impressed with their use of revenue generating phone numbers.

[hillards]

Two more letters, one if another 'we're looking into it' but one is to say we've given an incorrect account number. It isn't wrong, but they've obviously failed to see that it was the First National account, which was paid off, to First National, before GE Money took over their dealings. I've written back with a cover letter explaining this and a copy of the letter we sent with the cheque back in 2003.

 

Santander Cards have asked for any previous address to check, but my wife's lived here since 1983 so that's not going to help them. I've made is quite clear that the account number is correct, and asked them to check again. If they don't have anything on file then we may not be able to do anything with that account.

 

I know, 2003, 6 year rule and all that. Despite there being no time limit on PPI reclaim. If the account has moved a couple of times then they may well have dumped the old accounts.

 

The good news is that 3 of the 5 accounts are being investigated and we already know that at least 2 of those had some form of insurance. We have that in writing from when we did the SAR.

[hillards]

We have had another letter, complete with a copy of the original application, to say that one of the accounts we submitted information about did not have PPI and therefore they have closed that file.

 

Pity they are not as quick to respond on the accounts that did have insurance.

[hillards]

Santander have returned all paperwork we sent them on the old First National account, saying it's not one of theirs... So who's is it?

 

First National went to GE Money which went to Santander - didn't it ?

[dx100uk]

indications are

 

GE Money Home Lending

Building 4

Hatters Lane

Croxley Green Business Park

Watford

HertfordshireWD18 8YF

 

but I think the underwriters were the infamous pinnacle insurance?

 

dx

[hillards]

Thanks dx, will point the paperwork in their direction

[hillards]

Another letter - telling us that another of the remaining accounts did not have any Insurance, so we are now down to 2 of the 5 that they are looking into. At least we know that both of these had insurance of some sort, which is why it's taking them longer to work out I guess. The next correspondence should be an offer letter, or two. It's the wife's birthday in mid-September, she may just get these through for a nice meal out, at least

[hillards]

Two more letters, telling us that it's taking them 'longer than originally thought to investigate' and if they don't conclude the investigation(s) over the next four weeks they will contact us again... Yawn...!

[hillards]

More letters - but not good news.

 

 

Santander have rejected the claims,

saying that (in their opinion) PPI was not mis-sold and they are not upholding the complaint(s).

 

Further,

they advise that we cannot go to the FOS as the sale was made prior to 14 Jan 2005

and GE Money were not a party to the arbitration service before that date.

They have suggested referring the matter to the Finance & Leasing Association

 

Now what ?

 

 

As anyone taking out a store card in the early 2000's could tell you,

store staff pressured customers into having a card,

and insisted that the insurance cover had to be taken.

Santander deny this...

[dx100uk]

even though they were not regulated by anyone to 'enforce' the 'rules'

 

 

the GISC and abi codes still were in play

[hillards]

Very interesting reading. So the next step would be to go back to Santander, rejecting their decision and pointing them to this FOS document ? OR, go to the FOS, also referring to this decision document ?

[dx100uk]

I'd give santy a chance.

 

 

then the fos

 

 

dx

[hillards]

I'd give santy a chance.

I nearly read that as 'sanity' - thought I was in the wrong thread

 

Nice little letter sent to Santander. Strange that their advice that the matter could NOT be referred to the FOS was only in the cover letter of copies they sent to me, no mention of that in the main letters sent to my wife.

 

I've also reminded myself of a non-compliance issue with the SAR, where the failed to supply any information on one account. They really don't their company any favours!

[hillards]

Despite sending a carefully worded SAR to request information on all accounts and to include transactions etc Santander have still failed to provide what was asked of them, so what do we do now ?

 

In particular we needed a transaction log for one particular account where we knew there had been a lot of charges made and to check that same account for PPI. All we have is a bad copy of the agreement form, although it looks like the 'account cover' section was left blank.

 

We wrote to them to inform them of the failure to comply and they've just sent a few more bits, but still not the transaction log we wanted. Strange that they have supplied that for two older accounts though.

 

Complaint to the ICO ?

[hillards]

Complaint letter on it's way to Ana Botin by post and email

[hillards]

Reply from Exec Office to say that they can do nothing as the company concerned are Santander Cards, not Santander.

 

Same logo, same envelopes, what gives ?

[hillards]

Ah, so Ana Botin is no longer CEO, it's now Nathan Bostock. The complaint letter was passed on.

 

Santander Cards in Bradford have responded to uphold their earlier decision that the card(s) had PPI that was fully agreed to and therefore they will not refund. Not sure what to do next as everyone knows PPI was mis-sold but they're refusing.

 

They have also failed, once again, to provide all the information requested in the SAR sent to them in May. I guess that part should be referred to the ICO.